VEG Room Build for 40K Watt Show

redwhiteblue · Jul 21, 2012

I'm building a DWC 40 light show. In Flower: 2-10 light rooms and 1-20 light room, 1000W HPS. Industrial Warehouse, All 5 gal buckets w/ 3/4" pipes, CO2 w/ burners, Massive A/C units, the whole bag of chips. No cutting corners. Not my first rodeo. Growing O.G. only.

The DWC system will be built by an associate who has been using the 5 gal system for years w/ immaculate results. Our nutrient system is already dialed. The issue I face is that he's running 90-110 day cycles, and I need to crop much more frequently due to the fact that this is a cooperative medical grow that must support hundreds of patients.

I'm trying to set it up to run perpetually on as close to a 60 day cycle as possible. I'm coming from rock wool, have many years of experience w/ getting 1#/light in rock wool. With that said, I recognize DWC is a similar yet entirely different animal.

My questions:

How to I organize the Veg room so that I can transfer the plants in Veg directly into the flower rooms like I would w/ rock wool? Do I have to Veg teens in 5 gallon buckets under MH lights? Suggested square footage for Veg and # of lights?

Thank you to in advance anyone who is willing to provide some insight.

sox · Jul 21, 2012

damn bro, good luck...thats gunna be a fun one!
i got no experiance w/hydro but there are some cats in here that will help you out 100%

organiclover · Jul 21, 2012

break your flower rooms into smaller rooms like 8x 5 light rooms on the flip flop and stagger start dates

Olyver · Jul 21, 2012

If you need a custom lighting controller that will pass electrical inspection, give me a holler.

bobby · Jul 22, 2012

If you want to support 40 lights of bloom (4 plants per light or 80 plants per room)), and you have to veg in 5 gallon containers (16 per light), then it seems like you would need 20 lights in your veg room, if you're looking at a 30 day cycle. This way you could minimize on transplanting labor and harvest 20 lights per month with 80 plants per room. Always vegging 160 plants in the veg room.

If you only have the 10-10-20 light rooms, 3 rooms total. You could simply veg in the 10 light room.

The best answer to this question depends on how much transplanting your willing to do. The more veg lights, the less labor.

Does that make sense?

redwhiteblue · Jul 22, 2012

bobby said:
If you want to support 40 lights of bloom (4 plants per light or 80 plants per room)), and you have to veg in 5 gallon containers (16 per light), then it seems like you would need 20 lights in your veg room, if you're looking at a 30 day cycle. This way you could minimize on transplanting labor and harvest 20 lights per month with 80 plants per room. Always vegging 160 plants in the veg room.

If you only have the 10-10-20 light rooms, 3 rooms total. You could simply veg in the 10 light room.

The best answer to this question depends on how much transplanting your willing to do. The more veg lights, the less labor.

Does that make sense?

redwhiteblue · Jul 22, 2012

Do I have to Veg in 5 gallons or can I Veg in 4" Rockwool cubes, put the 3' fully veged plant into the 10" netpot for the 5 gals and go straight into flower?

bobby · Jul 22, 2012

"How to I organize the Veg room so that I can transfer the plants in Veg directly into the flower rooms like I would w/ rock wool? Do I have to Veg teens in 5 gallon buckets under MH lights? Suggested square footage for Veg and # of lights?"

In that first sentence above, "like rockwood" I imagined that you wanted to directly roll some plants over into a flower room without having to transplant...like if you had 4x4 cubes on 6 inch slabs...if you're vegging on slabs from the start, then you obviously have to have a huge veg room with tons of wasted light.

Sorry for the confusion, so the answer is NO, you do not need to veg in 5 gallons and you can totally veg in 4x4 cubes. That is what I do. I use 4x4 ebb and flow tables with a 40 gallon res underneath each table. But I think if you're doing a DWC system, you want really large plants. In my opinion, a 4x4 cube doesn't have enough root space to support a huge top heavy plant. Maybe you could try 6 or 8 inch cubes?

I veg in 4x4 cubes, but only for 3-4 weeks max and by that time, they area kind of maxing out the cube. Then we transplant into a 2 gallon hydroton ebb and gro bucket. I flower with 9 plants per light, so my plants are smaller than yours.

So I guess we need to know how many flowering lights is your goal? We have to know what size panel you have and your budget...or we're simply wasting time.

What is the reason you choose the number 40?

One of my warehouses is a 40 light setup, but I choose 40 lights because I had 300 amps of power and wanted a 1 month cycle with veg room and dry room. Don't forget to incorporate a dry room into your design. You can easily cool the space with a zone off of one of your AC's and it'll increase your annual numbers by a new trucks worth.

redwhiteblue · Jul 22, 2012

bobby said:
"How to I organize the Veg room so that I can transfer the plants in Veg directly into the flower rooms like I would w/ rock wool? Do I have to Veg teens in 5 gallon buckets under MH lights? Suggested square footage for Veg and # of lights?"

In that first sentence above, "like rockwood" I imagined that you wanted to directly roll some plants over into a flower room without having to transplant...like if you had 4x4 cubes on 6 inch slabs...if you're vegging on slabs from the start, then you obviously have to have a huge veg room with tons of wasted light.

Sorry for the confusion, so the answer is NO, you do not need to veg in 5 gallons and you can totally veg in 4x4 cubes. That is what I do. I use 4x4 ebb and flow tables with a 40 gallon res underneath each table. But I think if you're doing a DWC system, you want really large plants. In my opinion, a 4x4 cube doesn't have enough root space to support a huge top heavy plant. Maybe you could try 6 or 8 inch cubes?

I veg in 4x4 cubes, but only for 3-4 weeks max and by that time, they area kind of maxing out the cube. Then we transplant into a 2 gallon hydroton ebb and gro bucket. I flower with 9 plants per light, so my plants are smaller than yours.

So I guess we need to know how many flowering lights is your goal? We have to know what size panel you have and your budget...or we're simply wasting time.

What is the reason you choose the number 40?

One of my warehouses is a 40 light setup, but I choose 40 lights because I had 300 amps of power and wanted a 1 month cycle with veg room and dry room. Don't forget to incorporate a dry room into your design. You can easily cool the space with a zone off of one of your AC's and it'll increase your annual numbers by a new trucks worth.

I have room for 40 lights in Flower + a 15 x 14 veg room. It would be 2- 10 light rooms and 1- 20 light room.

Or, I can do 3 - 10 light Flower rooms (30 lights total Flower) and a 30 x 14 Veg room. The size of the rooms is simply dictated by what already exists and walls that can be easily built.

Layout either way has 2 buckets per 1000 watt HPS in Flower, so it's 20 5gal buckets per flower room.

Power is 200 AMP. I'm thinking 3-10 light flower rooms and a big veg room is a better option so I can Veg in 5 gallon buckets. That way I can fit 80+ 5gal buckets in veg to really establish my plants before they enter flower - no to mention to ability to really pick the winners and eliminate all the runts before Flowering.

Trim, Dry, Storage, etc is all covered, no worries there.

treebark1950 · Jul 22, 2012

redwhiteblue said:
I have room for 40 lights in Flower + a 15 x 14 veg room. It would be 2- 10 light rooms and 1- 20 light room.

Or, I can do 3 - 10 light Flower rooms (30 lights total Flower) and a 30 x 14 Veg room. The size of the rooms is simply dictated by what already exists and walls that can be easily built.

Layout either way has 2 buckets per 1000 watt HPS in Flower, so it's 20 5gal buckets per flower room.

Power is 200 AMP. I'm thinking 3-10 light flower rooms and a big veg room is a better option so I can Veg in 5 gallon buckets. That way I can fit 80+ 5gal buckets in veg to really establish my plants before they enter flower - no to mention to ability to really pick the winners and eliminate all the runts before Flowering.

Trim, Dry, Storage, etc is all covered, no worries there.

I noticed that you said 200 amps? Is your main panel 200 amps?

40 1000's x 5 amps= 200....

What about AC, and everything else?

Capulator · Jul 22, 2012

treebark1950 said:
I noticed that you said 200 amps? Is your main panel 200 amps?

40 1000's x 5 amps= 200....

What about AC, and everything else?

yeah you are looking at closer to 400 amp service.

bobby · Jul 23, 2012

When doing grow room buildouts, you I suggest you prioritize in this order:

1. Security
2. Budget
3. Electrical Power Available
4. Best Annual Revenue/Financial Plan
5. Desired Work Schedule and Staffing
6. Equipment and Air Conditioning needed
7. Maximize Square Footage and Layout of facility
8. Efficiency of Installation
9. On Going Maintenance Considerations

bobby · Jul 23, 2012

This is what I would do with 200 amps.

Non Perpetual Harvest - 32 Lights, 2 Flower Rooms total

16 Lights 4.5 amps @240v = 72 amps, flip flop to another 16 light room, 32 total bloom lights.
8 Tons of AC = 60 amps, flip flop to another 16 light room.
2 Dehumidifiers = 16 amps, one in each room.
20 Wall Fans = 20 amps, 10 in each room

This equals 168 amps, which is 84% of your panel running constantly.
You will harvest 32 lights, every 3 or 4 months (depends on plant counts)

Perpetual Harvest - 30 Lights, 2 Flower Rooms (24) and 1 Veg Room (6)

Flower Rooms (2)
12 Lights 4.5 amps @240v=54 amps, flip flop to another 12 light room, 24 total bloom lights.
5 Ton of AC = 42 amps, flip flop to another 12 light room.
2 Dehumidifiers = 16 amps, one in each room.
14 Wall Fans = 14 amps, 7 in each room
126 Total Amps for 2 Flower Rooms

Veg Room (1)
6 Lights 2.5 amps @240v = 15 amps, these are 600w Lights.
2.5 Ton AC = 20 amps
1 Dehumidifier = 5 amps
5 Wall Fans = 5 amps
45 Total Amps for Veg Room

126 plus 45 = 171 Amps total, or 85.5 % of your panel running constantly.
You will harvest 12 lights, every month.

Add 7 amps for a dehumidifier and scrubber if you add a dryroom. This is a quickie calculation, so I left out stuff like air/water pumps, and general warehouse lighting, but this pretty accurate. Your dehumidifiers will cycle, so you'll have some play....but I wouldn't go over 85% constant use on your panel. Yes, you can go above that for equipment startups, but go and talk to some electricians to see what they recommend.

I don't think you can do 40 lights, unless you downgrade to 600's or something, which I would recommend against. 600 watt fixtures are great for residential or vegging, but not commercial production.

bigdaftones · Aug 24, 2012

Awesome reply, Bobby!

oscar169 · Aug 25, 2012

Seems on this level you would just have a 400-600 amp service run to the bulding .....o_O

Olyver · Aug 25, 2012

You will need to upgrade your service to 400A, or use Bobby's advice.

oscar169 · Aug 25, 2012

Olyver said:
You will need to upgrade your service to 400A, or use Bobby's advice.

Olyver KNOWS HIS SHIT !!!!! X2 ;)

serpent · Sep 5, 2012

would 4 tons of a/c for 16 lights cut it? seems like you would need 5 tons.

GR33NL3AF · Sep 5, 2012

Non vented lights rule of thumb
3500 btus per 1000watts with CO2
2500 btus per 100watt without

Schwoop · Sep 5, 2012

Not enough BTUs, 5000 per 1k bare bulbs. Not even sure that set up will work on a flip flop. But you can easily go from 4" RW cubes to buckets in veg then to the final buckets, there gonna need 2-3 veg time in the bubbler prior to flip, start flower room 1 then 4.5 wks later start flower room 2. 1 wk later transfer 4" cubes to 5 gall buckets in veg room. 3.5 wks later put in flower room 1 that just harvested. Security/ HVAC are prioritys imvho. The rest is gravey. And I agree Oly can bust out some sik lighting controllers.

VEG Room Build for 40K Watt Show

VEG Room Build for 40K Watt Show

redwhiteblue

sox

organiclover

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bobby

redwhiteblue

redwhiteblue

bobby

redwhiteblue

treebark1950

Capulator

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bobby

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VEG Room Build for 40K Watt Show

VEG Room Build for 40K Watt Show

redwhiteblue

sox

organiclover

Olyver

bobby

redwhiteblue

redwhiteblue

bobby

redwhiteblue

treebark1950

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

bobby

bobby

bigdaftones

oscar169

Farming 🌱

Olyver

oscar169

Farming 🌱

serpent

GR33NL3AF

Schwoop

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