KarmaPharmer said:

1/3 Sphagnum Peat Moss


1/3 Aeration (pumice, perlite, lava rock, etc..)


1/3 Compost + Earthworm Castings

Click to expand...

That's enough for vegetation:)I think thats enough for everything(with a little "rocks") but if you want you can add some of the other things if this is the recipe...But i think it is a little bit too much...And you can make two different soils,one for veg and one for flowering(if you transplant) with a little more in it but make sure you do not overdo it:)

Thanks for reply Ina, so would you say going full Coots recipe is overboard?

For simplicity sake I am going to keep it one soil for full cycle, probably no till, maybe just a little top dressing or folar spray, and periodic compost teas to keep my girls on track.


I am coming from a background of a dialed in indoor grow with bottled nutes etc, but I took a break from growing. So I am really excited to start back up, but this time I am going to forgo all the bottled nutrients, less plastic waste and headache mixing stuff every single day of watering and misting.

I say cost is also what brought me to living soil, but after buying all these additives and components to mix my living soil I am pretty certain my wallet would not be this light if I had just got promix and ran bottled nutes for one cycle. So I am looking forward to a couple cycles to where living soil makes sense moneywise.. Oh and to the OG bud, i hear this is going to make my girls have a better aroma.

Do you think alfalfa meal can replace Crab/Crustacean meal 1:1 ?

To my understanding they have a fairly similar nutrient profile

Аre you going to make one bed or many pots?I've never tried in one but I suppose you need very good aeration in this case or the hole bed will stay too wet so in this situation-more perlite and rocks and may be something on the bottom.By the way aeration and more stuff like perlite is never too much,always needed. I also decided to not use any kind of bottles,the only things I buy are the worm castings and the peat,o and the aeration materials,zeolites(but now I think I don't have to any more,I found many different types of sand and rocks available),things I cant find myself in nature.Everything else i collect:)Alfalfa is really nice,i use it mostly for mulch on the top(or how you call that on eng I hope it is the same plant i'm thinking of),also in the teas but I don't know for sure if it can replace the crab meal(never try it,but some times I have shells and stuff).With one word I think you can pout some of the ingredients you describe,but may be lower the amount...Ofcourse this is just my opinion,i'm not so experienced like Clackamas:)Just thinking these plants don't need so much.....And also during growing you will add more things so....You decide.:)There was thread here where gardener used many,many of these things so the soil can be richer and after that he needed to flush because of overfeeding(which is hard то get with veganic nutes but still) so just be carefull.

I apologize in advance if people still get sassy about bumping old threads, but i thought a follow up was in order.

My grow didnt go quite as planned.. Friggid ass nights, early snow, an apparent endless supply of moisture from the greenhouse floor which an industrial dehumidifier couldnt tackle... mmmm learning experience.

But I will say I did not experience a ton of nutrient problems. My organic holes did as well as my bottled nutrient fiber pots.

However I did recently send in a soil sample for testing, Ill write up the results, as much for my own record as for anyone else. Also I will say what these values seem to mean from my limited understanding I have established via a little reading ( and http://soilminerals.com/soiltest_page1.htm mostly) and listening to KIS podcast - I would love for more experienced soil makers to chime in with corrections or suggestions :)

Total Exchange Capacity - 10.6 Adequate but could be better

pH - 6.8 A bit high

Organic matter - 29.75 % Adequate!

Sulfur - 102 ppm Not sure, seems adequate!

Mehlich III Phosphorus 775 lbs/Acre (775 x 0.435 = 337.125 P) I keep finding so much nonsense surrounding the 'ideal levels' of P that I am truly at a loss. Most articles my Google-fu is coming up point to this amount being either enough or more likely a bit much.. :speechless:

Calcium lbs/acre
Desired Value: 2764
Mine : 2466 So a bit low, especially since I want a better magnesium to Ca ratio

Magnesium lbs/acre
Desired value:292
Mine: 618 I did spray with epsom salts a week before doing this test since I thought I was running into a magnesium deficiency, might have been an excess I was seeing!

Potassium lbs/acre
Desired Value: 317
Mine : 323 So that looks good!

Sodium lbs/acre - 109 This is high, I have read that over 50 lbs/acre is high, and this is double.

Base Saturation %

Calcium 60.65 on the low but acceptable level

Magnesium 25.33 over 20%, when coupled with the above reading I think this is something to address

Sodium 2.34 High end of what seems acceptable

Other Bases 4.60

Exchangeable Hydrogen 3.00 A little low, the pH is on the upper end, so thats why

Trace Minerals
in ppm

Boron 0.63 Low, lower than the 1-3 range

Iron 172 Looking good

Maganese 17 Low, according to a pdf from MSU it should be 20-40, with the upper levels around 120

Copper 1.07 Low, I heard on KIS podcast this would be good to be around 4, but other sources say up to 10 or 15 ppm

Zinc 5.43 Low, better to be up around 10 ppm

Aluminum 182 Seems fine, well under the 2000ppm which is considered trouble.

and my Media Density was 0.23 g/cm3



So far my only top dressings have been some kelp meal and some gypsum. and I have sprayed with epsom salts a couple times because I thought i had a deficiency.

Most my plants seem happy, albeit with some intervienal chlorosis on the lower leaves. Some far worse than others, the kush crosses and gorilla glue hybrids are happy, while the GSC are looking depressed!

Ill follow up with some plant pics when the lights come on.

Ina said:

Аre you going to make one bed or many pots?I've never tried in one but I suppose you need very good aeration in this case or the hole bed will stay too wet so in this situation-more perlite and rocks and may be something on the bottom.By the way aeration and more stuff like perlite is never too much,always needed. I also decided to not use any kind of bottles,the only things I buy are the worm castings and the peat,o and the aeration materials,zeolites(but now I think I don't have to any more,I found many different types of sand and rocks available),things I cant find myself in nature.Everything else i collect:)Alfalfa is really nice,i use it mostly for mulch on the top(or how you call that on eng I hope it is the same plant i'm thinking of),also in the teas but I don't know for sure if it can replace the crab meal(never try it,but some times I have shells and stuff).With one word I think you can pout some of the ingredients you describe,but may be lower the amount...Ofcourse this is just my opinion,i'm not so experienced like Clackamas:)Just thinking these plants don't need so much.....And also during growing you will add more things so....You decide.:)There was thread here where gardener used many,many of these things so the soil can be richer and after that he needed to flush because of overfeeding(which is hard то get with veganic nutes but still) so just be carefull.

Click to expand...

KarmaPharmer said:

Thanks for reply Ina, so would you say going full Coots recipe is overboard?

For simplicity sake I am going to keep it one soil for full cycle, probably no till, maybe just a little top dressing or folar spray, and periodic compost teas to keep my girls on track.


I am coming from a background of a dialed in indoor grow with bottled nutes etc, but I took a break from growing. So I am really excited to start back up, but this time I am going to forgo all the bottled nutrients, less plastic waste and headache mixing stuff every single day of watering and misting.

I say cost is also what brought me to living soil, but after buying all these additives and components to mix my living soil I am pretty certain my wallet would not be this light if I had just got promix and ran bottled nutes for one cycle. So I am looking forward to a couple cycles to where living soil makes sense moneywise.. Oh and to the OG bud, i hear this is going to make my girls have a better aroma.

Do you think alfalfa meal can replace Crab/Crustacean meal 1:1 ?

To my understanding they have a fairly similar nutrient profile.

Click to expand...

Crab/ Crustacean Meals are naturally loaded with Chitin/Chitosans. Chitin increases beneficial microbes in the soil as well as boosting the plants

KarmaPharmer said:

Thanks for reply Ina, so would you say going full Coots recipe is overboard?

For simplicity sake I am going to keep it one soil for full cycle, probably no till, maybe just a little top dressing or folar spray, and periodic compost teas to keep my girls on track.


I am coming from a background of a dialed in indoor grow with bottled nutes etc, but I took a break from growing. So I am really excited to start back up, but this time I am going to forgo all the bottled nutrients, less plastic waste and headache mixing stuff every single day of watering and misting.

I say cost is also what brought me to living soil, but after buying all these additives and components to mix my living soil I am pretty certain my wallet would not be this light if I had just got promix and ran bottled nutes for one cycle. So I am looking forward to a couple cycles to where living soil makes sense moneywise.. Oh and to the OG bud, i hear this is going to make my girls have a better aroma.

Do you think alfalfa meal can replace Crab/Crustacean meal 1:1 ?

To my understanding they have a fairly similar nutrient profile

Click to expand...

That's true however alfalfa is devoid of chitin/chitosans, a primary component of Crustacean meals that provide increased immunity to disease, hardier stems, and improved nutrient cycling by increasing the amount of beneficial microbes present in the soil. Unfortunately, chitins are only found in the cell walls of fungi and the exoskeletons of arthropods

KarmaPharmer said:

To the point -> Check out my recipe so far, please advise on how it looks, I am trying the old Clackamas recipe

I would like to source replacements for the Crab meal and Oyster flour... I really really do not want this to be a debate on the why, please just let me know what good replacement....

Ok but if you must know I do not to use animal products for environmental (I like the sea and air) and ethical (I like animals to feel alright) reasons. So..

So far I am starting to order and source the ingredients in the classic Clackamas Coot recipe:


Clackamas Coot's Recipe


1/3 Sphagnum Peat Moss


1/3 Aeration (pumice, perlite, lava rock, etc..)


1/3 Compost + Earthworm Castings


To each 1 c.f. of this mix I add the following:
1/2 cup organic Neem meal
1/2 cup organic Kelp meal
1/2 cup Crab meal or Crustacean meal
4 cups of Mineral Mix aka rock dust


Mineral Mix Recipe
1x – Glacial Rock Dust
1x – Gypsum
1x – Oyster Shell Flour or Agricultural Lime
1x – Basalt



But I would love the input on what I have so far,


Base mix:
1/3 Canadian Peat
1/3 Perlite
1/3 Local EWC

To which I will add

Neem meal
Alfalfa Meal ( Replace Crab meal?)
Kelp Meal

Glacial Rock Dust
Gypsum
Azomite



Please let me know if there is a ratio of the above that you really recommend, or if there are ingredients that you really think i should be adding.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I work at a legal organic farm in New York and you're definitely on the right track. I would use Basalt instead of Glacial Rock Dust because it is far richer in micro/macro-nutrients, breaks down more consistently over time, and adds paramagnetic material to the soil increasing your cation exchange capacity. Also, if you add enough wood chips to equal 10-15% of your soil mix by volume they will greatly increase your microbial populations and by year three you'll have 8-9 foot monsters. Alfalfa is similar to Crustacean meals with regard to NPK however it's devoid of the chitin/chitosans that increase natural disease immunity, promote better nutrient cycling, and feed the microbes in your living soil. Unfortunately, chitin is only found in the cell walls of fungi and arthropod exoskeletons so while I feel ya on being kind to all the little creatures there is no good 1-1 swap for the Crustacean meal. Generally speaking though, when creating a living soil, the more you put in, the more the plants will have to choose from and work with. You’ll be rewarded by the difference in quality in your first grow and again and again every one after for years to come.