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Glow · Jan 1, 2019

True you do get what is called phenotypic plasticity; however deep in the DNA key things remain the same or thereabouts. Certainly you noting HPS raises this because if you haven't noticed HPS makes plants stretch and results in less than optimal yields which is why combining MH and HPS helps with yields and quality. Now new lamp types such as CMH are emerging etc. All studies actually show that in growth chambers for optimum plant health HPS requires about 30% more blue light (which is typically added through MH).

Monster762 · Jan 1, 2019

Monster762 said:
Yes it should if the breeder nailed the parameters before breeding.

And good breeders will label those conditions right with thier product. So the consumer knows that’s the ideal area the strain is used to.

Glow · Jan 1, 2019

You mean outdoors. Sunlight is sunlight whether you're in the US or the Hindu Kush

I think what you are referring to is photoperiod which has nothing to do with spectrum

MIMedGrower · Jan 1, 2019

Monster762 said:
Yes it should if the breeder nailed the parameters before breeding.

Glad you agree.

MIMedGrower · Jan 1, 2019

Glow said:
You mean outdoors. Sunlight is sunlight whether you're in the US or the Hindu Kush

I think what you are referring to is photoperiod which has nothing to do with spectrum

Im not. Im saying that my hps grown and bred seeds that were bred starting 15 years ago with hps bred old classic strains and hybrids from a decade earlier. Grown with hps.

Sorry for that paragraph. :-)

Im saying i will likely get the potential of these plants with hps. Any gains from spectrum may be nominal.

And with cmh 315 vs 600 hps for me it was mostly hype in practice.

Except for the effects of higher blue range in flower. They were noticeable.

3 balls · Jan 1, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
Im not. Im saying that my hps grown and bred seeds that were bred starting 15 years ago with hps bred old classic strains and hybrids from a decade earlier. Grown with hps.

Sorry for that paragraph. :)

Im saying i will likely get the potential of these plants with hps. Any gains from spectrum may be nominal.

And with cmh 315 vs 600 hps for me it was mostly hype in practice.

Except for the effects of higher blue range in flower. They were noticeable.

Now you're confusing me. I thought I had a grasp on Kelvin, 3000ish for flower and 6000ish for veg, regardless of cmh or hps?

Glow · Jan 1, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
Im not. Im saying that my hps grown and bred seeds that were bred starting 15 years ago with hps bred old classic strains and hybrids from a decade earlier. Grown with hps.

Sorry for that paragraph. :)

Im saying i will likely get the potential of these plants with hps. Any gains from spectrum may be nominal.

And with cmh 315 vs 600 hps for me it was mostly hype in practice.

Except for the effects of higher blue range in flower. They were noticeable.

Lol you've just actually confirmed what I said with "Except for the effects of higher blue range in flower. They were noticeable."

Its good chatting btw because I appreciate getting growers views on things. It gives me better insight into where people are coming from with their views and yes there's a chunk of hype getting around about the 315 W CMH punching out as much light (PAR) as a 600 HPS. They don't. This has been demonstrated. Did you btw notice better resin production with the 315 CMH?

Glow · Jan 1, 2019

3 balls said:
Now you're confusing me. I thought I had a grasp on Kelvin, 3000ish for flower and 6000ish for veg, regardless of cmh or hps?

No spectrum mix is way more complex than that and is measured in NM not kelvin. All Kelvin is, is when you take a black carbon rod and heat it, it glows certain colours at certain temperatures. Degrees Kelvin actually tells you nothing about spectrum

3 balls · Jan 1, 2019

Glow said:
No spectrum mix is way more complex than that and is measured in NM not kelvin. All Kelvin is, is when you take a black carbon rod and heat it, it glows certain colours at certain temperatures. Degrees Kelvin actually tells you nothing about spectrum

Well that sucks, yet another thing I thought I understood shot to shit. When bulb shopping the only info I ever see is watts and Kelvin.

Glow · Jan 1, 2019

3 balls said:
Well that sucks, yet another thing I thought I understood shot to shit. When bulb shopping the only info I ever see is watts and Kelvin.

Nope not shot to shit mate because you are learning. Spectral output is measured in NM (a single kelvin rating tells you bugger all about spectrum mix) so you need to analyse NM spectral charts of lamps to get a better idea. Overlay those charts to an NM chart of sunlight and look for similar spectrums. You likely can access NM charts relative to lamp online with the manufacturer.

3 balls · Jan 1, 2019

Glow said:
Lol you've just actually confirmed what I said with "Except for the effects of higher blue range in flower. They were noticeable."

Its good chatting btw because I appreciate getting growers views on things. It gives me better insight into where people are coming from with their views and yes there's a chunk of hype getting around about the 315 W CMH punching out as much light (PAR) as a 600 HPS. They don't. This has been demonstrated. Did you btw notice better resin production with the 315 CMH?

This growers view on things can be found on post #89 of this thread!;)

Glow · Jan 1, 2019

MIMedGrower · Jan 2, 2019

Glow said:
True you do get what is called phenotypic plasticity; however deep in the DNA key things remain the same or thereabouts. Certainly you noting HPS raises this because if you haven't noticed HPS makes plants stretch and results in less than optimal yields which is why combining MH and HPS helps with yields and quality. Now new lamp types such as CMH are emerging etc. All studies actually show that in growth chambers for optimum plant health HPS requires about 30% more blue light (which is typically added through MH).

I believe this to be true e

3 balls said:
Now you're confusing me. I thought I had a grasp on Kelvin, 3000ish for flower and 6000ish for veg, regardless of cmh or hps?

Yes that is the best combination for compact leafy veg and good flower response. But it is just like using mh and hps really.

MIMedGrower · Jan 2, 2019

Glow said:
Lol you've just actually confirmed what I said with "Except for the effects of higher blue range in flower. They were noticeable."

Its good chatting btw because I appreciate getting growers views on things. It gives me better insight into where people are coming from with their views and yes there's a chunk of hype getting around about the 315 W CMH punching out as much light (PAR) as a 600 HPS. They don't. This has been demonstrated. Did you btw notice better resin production with the 315 CMH?

I thought i did until i moved an hps flower under the lamp. Looked much more impressive in the 93cri light.

To equal it i just have been moving the plants lower (stands) as they ripen under 600’s. I guess the uv. could help but we also could get back to the whole breeding conditions thing. Lol.

In testing neither is nor the patients could not pick which was which in many blind tests.

Glow · Jan 2, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
I believe this to be true e

Yes that is the best combination for compact leafy veg and good flower response. But it is just like using mh and hps really.

That's what I like about CMH - its 2 in one with spectral uniformity so no overlaps and all light is equally as good. Thanks for the feedback on that. I'm impressed with CMH myself but run 630 watt. For now I think CMH is the future of indoor lighting but let's see what else appears on the scene in the coming years.

MIMedGrower · Jan 2, 2019

I read back and saw the kelvin comments. It is true different lamps with the same kelvin temp can have very different spectrums.

But spectrum charts dont show intensity. Most are set at the bulbs max so the graph doesnt show how strong the peak really is relative to other lamps.

Light companies are trickier in marketing than even cannabis specific nute companies.

MIMedGrower · Jan 2, 2019

Glow said:
That's what I like about CMH - its 2 in one with spectral uniformity so no overlaps and all light is equally as good. Thanks for the feedback on that. I'm impressed with CMH myself but run 630 watt. For now I think CMH is the future of indoor lighting but let's see what else appears on the scene in the coming years.

I think multiple 315’s would be great and maybe overcome the lower output with overlap but i really like the phillips 3100k combined with the 600 hortilux super hps better.

Even the 3100k has a little too much blue to flower for me.

I may try the ceramic hps.

Glow · Jan 2, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
I read back and saw the kelvin comments. It is true different lamps with the same kelvin temp can have very different spectrums.

But spectrum charts dont show intensity. Most are set at the bulbs max so the graph doesnt show how strong the peak really is relative to other lamps.

Light companies are trickier in marketing than even cannabis specific nute companies.

They aren't really trying to be tricky. What they do is scientifically measure the NM and then graph it. Intensity is another thing and is measured in units of watts/m2 or where lighting for plants is concerned PAR watts where an overlap between watts/m2 and spectrum occurs. Reading PAR watts is quite easy and you can buy PAR watt meters for not insane dollars - perhaps about $500. However these just equate total PAR watts and don't tell you what's occurring across the spectrum re peaks etc.

Glow · Jan 2, 2019

MIMedGrower said:
I think multiple 315’s would be great and maybe overcome the lower output with overlap but i really like the phillips 3100k combined with the 600 hortilux super hps better.

Even the 3100k has a little too much blue to flower for me.

I may try the ceramic hps.

Why not run the 630 watt CMH? They pack a punch - a lot more PAR watts than a 600 HPS

MIMedGrower · Jan 2, 2019

Glow said:
Why not run the 630 watt CMH? They pack a punch - a lot more PAR watts than a 600 HPS

I would run multiple 315’s spaced out about 2.5-3’ personally. I am considering 3 in a 4x8.

But my open verticle reflector with the phillips bulb was easily as hot if not hotter to cool than my glass enclosed air cooled 600’s.

So open 630’s are out in my low ceiling small rooms amd tents. In the summer anyway but dont change my stuff often as i share house hbac with my grows and run a perpetual with no down time.

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