chazbolin said:

I didn't want to get off thread topic but for whatever the reason someone is driven to look at alternative grow lighting this is why I brought it up here. And ttystikk statement reiterates the 'big picture' perspective I had only attempted to illustrate.

The 4th amendment is being whittled away on a daily basis. One cannot expect privacy and due process to protect us in our daily habits and routines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

I might further add to ttystikk comments relative to this thread is that we live in a world where;

Big Brother looks to the hydro shops to provide them with a list of customers buying a lot of replacement high wattage HID lamps.

The wireless companies freely hand over cell records to any law enforcement agent who simply asks for them.

From an economic perspective; total consumption has always been an important element in determining total cost/m2. From a shifting political/enforcement perspective, consumption based on unusual patterns which I believe to be from a variety of sources to be in excess of 50kw-hrs/day, continuous patterns, should be taken seriously. In the interest of combining these two perspectives I would propose the importance of watts/lumens is of less significance to a grower than a Watts/DLI measurement would be.

5 ea., 1000 watt HID lamps @ 12 hrs/day = 60kw-hrs/day less any AC or ventilation loads not to mention the rest of the property.

This Watts/DLI can get into some complex, but straight math that takes lamp efficiencies into consideration. Before others on here jump my ass I'll be the first to agree that neither a Watts/DLI nor a Watts/Lumen equation takes into account the plants photobiological responses to specific spectrum's being emitted by their beloved HID lamps which are weighted to either vegetative or flowering activities.

just sayin...

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lex0415 said:

Thats cool, you can say what you want, no problems with me. I just don't understand why ttystikk, in this thread and a couple others, starts talking shit to me. Lets take this thread for example, I said "your joking......right????" then ttystikk said "blah blah blah, think before you shoot off at the fingertips with me-kid, its pretty clear you think you know alot more then you actually do". So I asked him a question and he tried to start an argument with me for no reason, thats all I gotta say bout it.

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chazbolin said:

lumens are for humans

The main difference between a photometer (measuring lumens) and a PAR meter is that the PAR meter does not adjust it’s readings for the spectral sensitivity (the luminosity function) of human visual perception of brightness.

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Crysmatic said:

I just picked up a Gavita Pro 1000 DE. Whazzup (on an international forum) recommends 1000 umol/m²s, and 1500 max given a perfect environment and CO2. Hung 24" above the canopy, it will light a 48" x 65" area (it casts a rectangular footprint with a 1:1.35 aspect ratio). That's only 45 lumens/ft², however, it is equal to 5000 ft-candles, which is a bright summer day in Maine.

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Crysmatic said:

great question. I'm not sure. Better than any existing HPS on the market (based on 15% brighter bulb, and 10-30% more effective reflector). I haven't even asked about the 1150w mode, which is not just a 'super lumen' mode...it's actually overdriving the bulb to 1150w (1220w consumption). someone will have to test it

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Crysmatic said:

It's a good thing you can run them at 600W :)

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lol well I would not try to penetrate with a double ended lamp, though it is not a wide as a single ended it has a nasty wire at the end :D

The penetration into the crop depends on three things:
1. The density and intensity of the light source
2. The reflector
3. The overlap of the lamps (penetration in the crop)

1. Density and intensity
At 2070 umol s-1 you can not find a brighter lamp. Also if you look at the light in the shop you will notice that the light is more intense than other 1000W lamps, because the arc tube is smaller (a higher light density).

2. The efficient reflector is designed to bring light down, while having a 120 degrees spread to overlap with other fixtures. General remark: forget inverse square law. That works only for point sources without reflector and at 5x the maximum length of the light source.

3. When overlapping lamps in a light plan you will see that going further away from the lamps the intensity will not diminish as much as a single lamp. You also will get a much better penetration using overlapping lamps because of the wide reflector spread.

1150W setting will give you 15% more light, as the efficiency is maintained in this overdrive setting. You will use 15% more energy. The spread is defined by the reflector, so it will stay the same. However, you need to take more distance from the reflector (a minimum of 70 cm) so you will have a bit more overlap using more reflector, which adds to the uniformity.

We use Licor meters with cos corrected quantum sensors, but for hobby use there are other meters available as well. Though these are not as precise to use because the sensor will not be as linear as the Licor, they are much better equipped for light measurement that the lux meters. They work with a multiplication factor for the different types of lamps because the don't have a linear frequency response.

Sensors need to be calibrated every 2 years.

Though a Licor 250a with sensor is an expensive piece of equipment and you don't need it every day, so this is a great tool to share among a group of growers. I know a few shops that have them available for their customers to measure their rooms.

The Apogee MQ-200 is more reasonably prices and also sold as OEM by some companies, such as sunlight supply.

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whazzup said:

Direct communication is so much easier... ;)

This is my answer on ICmag. Sorry guys, I can't keep up with all the forums.

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whazzup said:

2x 600 with LEP inbetween is a great configuration because of a few reasons:

1. with two 600W you have a much better uniformity and penetration because you use 2 fixtures
2. You can come close to the plants if you don't have a lot of height
3. You can make a square field with 2x 600W if you wish, the plasma also has a square field.
4. The plasma can hang in the middle, that's hard with 1 1000W fixture ;)

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whazzup said:

4x6 ~ 1.2 x 1.8m is a bit more than 2 square meters. 2x1000W is a lot of overkill!! Don't do it!

4200 umol HPS + 300 umol plasma = 4500 umol over 2 square meters so over 2000 umol per meter.... That is a lot of overkill and you will be forced to dim your fixtures down to 660, so 600W is more efficient. A 600W lamp at 100% will give you the more light than a 1000W lamp dimmed to 660. Dimming decreases efficiency of a lamp.

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outwest said:

So what you are saying is the 2 600s plus an LEP is ideal for a 4x6? Thanks for your prompt replies to my silly questions!

outwest

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