Week 6 - Defoliate or not?

labomba · Dec 20, 2022

Hi all, my first grows are just getting bushier than expected and tho I think some defoliation is necessary (I wasnt planning to defoliate them at all) im scared it might be too close to flowering for that.

These girl is a Original Cheese (auto), on Cocoa perlite, being fed GH trio (GH is for soft water with RO water + a little cal-mag bumping ppm from 10 to just under 100).
They are now on day 44 from sprout, being fed around 500-600 ppm total daily (1 to 1.5L of solution), PH im keeping around 5.6 - 5.8 (i dont need adjusting, comes this low naturally after mix, tho it seems to bump it to 6.4 once starts flowering for more phosphorus availability).
250W Samsung leds, 18/6 lights, extractor and a small fan on.
Started pre-flowering nutes last week.
The plant next to it is a white widow under same conditions.
My temps are kept around 20-24c (cant go any higher atm unfortunately)

That being said, Im posting some pictures, there way too many leaves, im starting to find wet spots in between leaves and know this a no no. Being on day 44 and they are still growing by the day, minding this is my first grow. Is some defoliation recommended at this point? Is it riskier to leave them as it is? Since i have two similar plants, would it be worth defoliating just one of them so a noob can experience both grows?

There is a bit LST going on, mainly on the main stalk, and ive been leaf tucking daily to expose more buds site on top of fan leaves and ive removed 2 or 3 unhealthy leaves from them couple weeks ago (they were in bad shape for being in contact with wet cocoa most likely). All in there, apart from the main defoliation question, any help to improve what im currently doing will be highly appreciated.

2Bad · Dec 20, 2022

Yeah defoliate anything touch soil or being blocked from light

SchwiftyGrower · Dec 20, 2022

I usually defoil 3 weeks before flower, but doing it a week before should leave enough time to heal before flowering IMO. I also do a final defoil at day 21 of flipping to 12/12 and remove any final lower leaves and Bud sites that won’t get good light to move the energy towards the top.

Trixie · Dec 20, 2022

Something to think about if you want too.
I know removing foliage is common practice with cannabis growers. However, if you look at the leaves under a microscope you will see a million tiny mouths called stomata. The stomata are the openings that allow the evapotranspiration of water and gases. Without the leaves and the stomata the plants metabolizing slows because the transpiration slows. The only way for a plant can get Carbon dioxide is by using the stomata. I allow the plant naturally drop the leaves in the end. Here's an example,

Typically, stomata are open during the day and closed at night, like some people's mouths. Many other signals cause stomata to open and close. Open stomata allow carbon dioxide to enter the plant, however, water vapour can escape, so regulation of stomata is crucial for maintaining plant water status. Google

smokedareefer · Dec 20, 2022

Defoliate side by side comparison small trees

It was suggested to me by a fourm member to do a side by side comparison. My system 13 gal rdwc , current culture Tangerine tonic a clementine gmo cross. I grew 4 of these out the last round and the day i flipped them to flower i cut clones from what i considered the best of the 4. Here she is...

www.thcfarmer.com

Edit: In my opinion, they need cleaned up

labomba · Dec 20, 2022

SchwiftyGrower said:
I usually defoil 3 weeks before flower, but doing it a week before should leave enough time to heal before flowering IMO. I also do a final defoil at day 21 of flipping to 12/12 and remove any final lower leaves and Bud sites that won’t get good light to move the energy towards the top.

It sounds like yours is a photo tho. Im concerned due to mine being an auto close to flowering.

I prob might try and defoliate the bushier and smaller of them and see if outgrows the other one

SchwiftyGrower · Dec 20, 2022

labomba said:
It sounds like yours is a photo tho. Im concerned due to mine being an auto close to flowering.

I prob might try and defoliate the bushier and smaller of them and see if outgrows the other one

Ah my bad I totally missed that part! Yeah I don’t grow autos so I wouldn’t follow my advice! Sorry about that

Goodshit97 · Dec 20, 2022

labomba said:
It sounds like yours is a photo tho. Im concerned due to mine being an auto close to flowering.

I prob might try and defoliate the bushier and smaller of them and see if outgrows the other one

Wow, an auto at 44 days veg, i find that uncommon. Most autos ive grown have been 25-35 days then flip into flower, only 2 went 6 and 7 weeks in veg. Id pluck some leaves off as they will stretch when they start to flower and youll have more leaves to handle photosynthesis

labomba · Dec 21, 2022

Goodshit97 said:
Wow, an auto at 44 days veg, i find that uncommon. Most autos ive grown have been 25-35 days then flip into flower, only 2 went 6 and 7 weeks in veg. Id pluck some leaves off as they will stretch when they start to flower and youll have more leaves to handle photosynthesis

Thats what I always read, to be fair this is not my very firs grow, ive had a (unsuccessful) hyroponic run that i had to cut short cause i needed to go away for two months. They were pretty small but only started flowering well over 60 days after sprout. This run was an year ago, around same period so it was also cold, their tent stats around 19-21c. Maybe its the cold.... who knows?! but so far my autos take loooong to flower, tho they both seem very happy and healthy. Also mind it happened with two different brands of seeds.

Cannagar · Dec 25, 2022

If you do defoliate only do it very lightly at the bottom skirt of the plant. Please do not ”lollipop“ your plant like so many people do. Is a bad practice and is just grow bro misinformation.

Anthem · Dec 25, 2022

Cannagar said:
If you do defoliate only do it very lightly at the bottom skirt of the plant. Please do not ”lollipop“ your plant like so many people do. Is a bad practice and is just grow bro misinformation.

Ok can you explain why this is a bad practice?

Cannagar · Dec 25, 2022

Anthem said:
Ok can you explain why this is a bad practice?

Your plant NEEDS leaves to produce energy, transpire, store energy, etc. They essentially are the plant; everything else that is there is to support the leaves or help the plant reproduce so it can create more leaves on another plant.

If your plant doesnt need a leaf it will slowly stop supporting it and will suck the available stored energy out of the leaf that is left. This causes the leaf to become weak and fall off naturally.

So the more leaves your plant has the more energy it can produce AND store.

And many growers only every consider photosynthesis and so they assume that if there isnt much light being recieved by the leaf it isnt worth keeping. I consider this bad advice because the leaf can still undergo the krebs cycle and can help to store energy for the plant.

Cannagar · Dec 25, 2022

Here is a picture of my plant from a few days back. As you can see. Leaving the leaves on did not hurt my plant. I still have plenty of colas. And my lower leaves are not wilted due to lack of light. The plant is healthy and there are more buds on it as a result of me leaving more branches on the plant instead of cutting them off while defoliating. If you’d like id be glad to take a picture of the bottom of the plant to show the only part I did defoliate before flipping to 12-12

Anthem · Dec 25, 2022

Cannagar said:
Your plant NEEDS leaves to produce energy, transpire, store energy, etc. They essentially are the plant; everything else that is there is to support the leaves or help the plant reproduce so it can create more leaves on another plant.

Yes 100 percent true

Cannagar said:
If your plant doesnt need a leaf it will slowly stop supporting it and will suck the available stored energy out of the leaf that is left. This causes the leaf to become weak and fall off naturally.

This is also true, but and this is a big but what happens to weak leaves? they become susceptible to bugs and disease. so remove before the plant has done so is being proactive and avoids problems.

Defoliation is not a cut and dry situation. removing the bottom 1/3 of grow during stretch is pretty common practice for several reasons.
#1. Any buds in the bottom 1/3 of a well sized plant are not going to get the correct amount of DLI to produce quality buds.
#2. It opens up the bottom of the plant for airflow thus eliminating the chances of disease.
#3. It allows the plant to focus its strength on quality buds rather than small lard buds.

Anthem · Dec 25, 2022

Cannagar said:
Here is a picture of my plant from a few days back. As you can see. Leaving the leaves on did not hurt my plant. I still have plenty of colas. And my lower leaves are not wilted due to lack of light. The plant is healthy and there are more buds on it as a result of me leaving more branches on the plant instead of cutting them off while defoliating. If you’d like id be glad to take a picture of the bottom of the plant to show the only part I did defoliate before flipping to 12-12

I think we may be talking apples and oranges. One plant is.well, one plant!!!

Cannagar · Dec 25, 2022

Anthem said:
Yes 100 percent true

This is also true, but and this is a big but what happens to weak leaves? they become susceptible to bugs and disease. so remove before the plant has done so is being proactive and avoids problems.

Defoliation is not a cut and dry situation. removing the bottom 1/3 of grow during stretch is pretty common practice for several reasons.
#1. Any buds in the bottom 1/3 of a well sized plant are not going to get the correct amount of DLI to produce quality buds.
#2. It opens up the bottom of the plant for airflow thus eliminating the chances of disease.
#3. It allows the plant to focus its strength on quality buds rather than small lard buds.

Oh definitely! I couldn’t agree more.

I didnt defoliate the entire bottom 3rd of my plant, probably closer to a 4th or 5th (also 1/3 is not lollipoping; lollipopping is more like 2/3 to 3/4 defoliated). But I completely agree about many of those branches being suboptimal and just in the way. As far as the leaves being susceptible; I agree with that too. It’s important to regularly inspect your plant and if you notice any yellowing or wilting leaves. Wiggle them a bit and if they pop off easily then they were ready to be removed and if not leave them on a little longer until the weaken a bit more. In these situations I typically gently squeeze the base of the leaf stem so the leaf falls limp. Then after 1-2 days it should come off easily and will have had most of its energy used up by the plant.

And certainly airflow is important as well. Its part of why I have so many Yo Yo hangers. My branches didnt grow as strong as they could have. I could have supplemented with more/better fans and had them oscillating. But in general more airflow is better.

Cannagar · Dec 25, 2022

Anthem said:
I think we may be talking apples and oranges. One plant is.well, one plant!!!

Fair enough! I do think that we agree more than we disagree. That much is for sure!

Anthem · Dec 25, 2022

Cannagar said:
Oh definitely! I couldn’t agree more.

I didnt defoliate the entire bottom 3rd of my plant, probably closer to a 4th or 5th. But I completely agree about many of those branches being suboptimal and just in the way. As far as the leaves being susceptible; I agree with that too. It’s important to regularly inspect your plant and if you notice any yellowing or wilting leaves. Wiggle them a bit and if they pop off easily then they were ready to be removed and if not leave them on a little longer until the weaken a bit more. In these situations I typically gently squeeze the base of the leaf stem so the leaf falls limp. Then after 1-2 days it should come off easily and will have had most of its energy used up by the plant.

And certainly airflow is important as well. Its part of why I have so many Yo Yo hangers. My branches didnt grow as strong as they could have. I could have supplemented with more/better fans and had them oscillating. But in general more airflow is better.

That plant was what is like week 4 or 5 of flower. They should not have any problem supporting themselves thru time frame. That is one of the main reasons why people supplement Silica. But plants cannot uptake straight silica. They can uptake mono silica acid. as found in power si. you might want to consider using a supplement with monosilic acid.

Cannagar · Dec 25, 2022

Anthem said:
That plant was what is like week 4 or 5 of flower. They should not have any problem supporting themselves thru time frame. That is one of the main reasons why people supplement Silica. But plants cannot uptake straight silica. They can uptake mono silica acid. as found in power si. you might want to consider using a supplement with monosilic acid.

Actually… I am already feeding with Power Si .

Shaded_One · Dec 25, 2022

Damn. I lollipped. My plants are screwed

Week 6 - Defoliate or not?

Week 6 - Defoliate or not?

labomba

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SchwiftyGrower

Trixie

smokedareefer

Defoliate side by side comparison small trees

labomba

SchwiftyGrower

Goodshit97

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Cannagar

Anthem

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Week 6 - Defoliate or not?

Week 6 - Defoliate or not?

labomba

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2Bad

SchwiftyGrower

Trixie

smokedareefer

Defoliate side by side comparison small trees

labomba

SchwiftyGrower

Goodshit97

labomba

Cannagar

Anthem

Cannagar

Cannagar

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Anthem

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