What Amendments/nutes Should I Add During Flower?

Perception · May 12, 2017

(I feel like this topic is better suited to the organic soil forum, rather than nutrients forum)

I'm on my 4th indoor grow now, and have been mostly using FFOF potting soil, from seed/clone all the way through harvest, with very few amendments. I had initially read that FFOF had enough nutes to take you through flower, but after several grows now, I don't feel like this accurate. All I've ever added was Big Bloom and some compost teas.

What I'm having trouble figuring out is: What kind of organic amendments should I add on flip and during flower?

On every grow I've done, around week 3 of flower, my plants seem to lose their vigor. The leaves get a little more pale, and they just don't look as vibrant. I feel like the plants are screaming "hey, give me some more effing food!!!!". I'm still a relatively new grower. But I feel like I'm seeing it in the plants.

Am I right in assuming that I should be feeding more in flower?

Perception · May 12, 2017

One last note - It's overwhelming looking at all the nutrients in grow shops, and everyone gives a different opinion. So many damned packaged products. I'd prefer to keep it as simple as possible. Things like alfalfa, guano, bone meal, compost, compost tea, EW castings, WCA, epsom, aloe, etc...

I want to understand WHAT nutrients the plants like in flower, and what organic amendments meet these requirements.

GT21 · May 12, 2017

Plants love phosphorus and potassium in flower

Perception · May 12, 2017

GT21 said:
Plants love phosphorus and potassium in flower

Do you have any recommendations of organic amendments for P/K, and how you like to apply?

Perception · May 12, 2017

I just get the feeling that my plants want a little more Nitrogen. I know this goes against common practice of reducing N in flower, but they look light green. I am guessing that vigorously feeding vegetative plants in FFOF will maybe suck a lot of the available N out? Just a guess.

Organikz · May 12, 2017

Kelp meal and compost/worm castings top dress. Your plants will be happy girls.

Perception · May 12, 2017

Organikz said:
Kelp meal and compost/worm castings top dress. Your plants will be happy girls.

Love it. I have a large vermicompost bin in my dining room, LoL.

I was looking for simple solutions like this. Good compost or EW castings, and some organic amendments. I like to keep it simple, although I feel food is needed in the end.

Organikz · May 12, 2017

That is your food. Everything a worm eats is in its casting. If you feed your worms leafy greens basically all of the NPK it took that plant to grow that is in the worm poop in an even more usable form for your plant.

Organikz · May 12, 2017

Here's a super soil water only recipe:

1 part spagnum peat moss
1 part EWC
1 part aeration amendment (perlite, rice hulls, pumice)

Mix this up and add the following per cubic foot.

1 cup dolomitic lime
1 cup kelp meal
1 cup espoma veggie tone
1/2 cup neem/karanja cake

Let that cook for a couple of weeks. This is the time when microbes begin to populate and go into a feeding frenzy. The soil literally gets hot as hell.

Try starting a tomatoe plant to see if your soil has stabilized if you'd like.

Perception · May 12, 2017

Organikz said:
Here's a super soil water only recipe:

Wow, I really appreciate it. I started a little over a year ago, and after my first grow in FFOF, I started working on living soils, and designed my own with earth worms and everything. The recipe is actually very similar to yours. I did pretty well, but ultimately ended up with a root aphid problem. Actually, I had all kinds of problems, haha. Being a novice grower, I decided to take a step back and just stick with a pre-made soil until I could get that dialed. Then I'll move back in to living soil.

In the end, I've learned that my problems were related to environment, and what looks like PH as well. I'm one of those stubborn people that has to know how things work. So I usually go through the painful process of reverse engineering, until I get it perfect.

Organikz · May 12, 2017

I'm the exact same way lol

Perception · May 16, 2017

I fed the plants with Kelp Meal & homemade EW castings 4 days ago (this was exactly 2 weeks in to flower), and they have been very happy looking since. The color of the leaves slightly darkened, and looks perfect now. So far so good.

@Organikz How often do you do this feeding in flower? I used Down To Earth kelp meal, and the box says once a month topdress for "established plants", although I'm guessing cannabis needs more. I did half the recommended dose.

Perception · May 16, 2017

These are all from seed. One plant is short and wide (on left), but I think it is just genetic variation.

DrMcSkunkins · May 16, 2017

I feed mine veg nutes and aact brews until two weeks or so into flower when they stop stretching, then switch to flower nutes.
When I switch to flower nutes right after flip I seem to get more deficiencies and light green new growth, so I keep pumping the N until they start flowering.

Perception · May 16, 2017

DrMcSkunkins said:
I feed mine veg nutes and aact brews until two weeks or so into flower when they stop stretching, then switch to flower nutes.
When I switch to flower nutes right after flip I seem to get more deficiencies and light green new growth, so I keep pumping the N until they start flowering.

Thanks! All the "General" themes I read about nutrients was to reduce N when switching to flower, but as this thread is about, I feel they need more. Not sure if the N is locked up in FFOF, or if it gets depleted in veg, but it seems that it doesn't have enough for supplying the plant through veg AND flower.

Any recommendations on a natural supply that I can top dress with? Not sure if the EW castings have enough. I have some alfalfa meal I was thinking about using...

I was considering a strain of bat quano too that wasn't too hot

Organikz · May 16, 2017

Perception said:
I fed the plants with Kelp Meal & homemade EW castings 4 days ago (this was exactly 2 weeks in to flower), and they have been very happy looking since. The color of the leaves slightly darkened, and looks perfect now. So far so good.

@Organikz How often do you do this feeding in flower? I used Down To Earth kelp meal, and the box says once a month topdress for "established plants", although I'm guessing cannabis needs more. I did half the recommended dose.

That top dress should hold you over through flower. They are trying to sell more product. It will take about 2 or 3 months for all of the kelp meal to reduce to carbon depending on how often you use enzymes or beneficials.

Alfalfa meal is great but be careful. It's hot stuff. It has growth regulator hormones. People tend to think the plant can actually utilize this hormone which isn't true however hormones are amino acids which microbes love! Enzymes!

You can also ramp up nutrient uptake and accelerate decomposition by adding a 1/4 cup of all natural coconut water per gallon of water. Make sure it's not from concentrate. A coconut is a huge seed so it's a premade SST.

Marejuana · May 16, 2017

Perception said:
One last note - It's overwhelming looking at all the nutrients in grow shops, and everyone gives a different opinion. So many damned packaged products. I'd prefer to keep it as simple as possible. Things like alfalfa, guano, bone meal, compost, compost tea, EW castings, WCA, epsom, aloe, etc...

I want to understand WHAT nutrients the plants like in flower, and what organic amendments meet these requirements.

It's is overwhelming, I just but the bullet and picked a line and ran with it. I'm using the CANNA line pretty much following the feed schedule with minor adjustments.

Marejuana · May 16, 2017

Auto correct is kicking my ass, sorry

Bajocas · May 16, 2017

I started using homemade spikes for "timed" feeds. Get the spike material in the soil before the roots grow out. I punch a small 1/4" to 1/2" hole in the soil near the edge of the pot and drop in either a high N spike.

1 part Kelp Meal
1 part Bone Meal
1 part High N guano
1 part Feather Meal
1 part Blood Meal

Or a high P spike

1 part Feather meal
1 part High P guano
1 part Kelp/Alfalfa 50/50
1 part Bone Meal

I like the top dress approach as well. I get the spikes in either at planting or at transplant. It's not much material and it gets to cook for a bit before the roots get there. This came right out the The Rev's book not my recipe.

Organikz · May 17, 2017

I'm sitting here thinking you have a worm bin right? You can influence NPK and mineral values in your bin. You would basically be feeding the worms whatever you want in the mix. They go crazy for alfalfa meal. You may want a rock dust also which is best utilized in the bin. I use glacial rock dust but basalt or azomite work as well. Hell I think green sand would become available pretty quickly if it's in castings.

Keep in mind I'm thinking from the no till spectrum. I look at alfalfa as the silver bullet. It's overlooked by a lot of growers but the stuff ramps up bioactivity. It's known to be a great compost starter. It contains balanced amounts NPK and contains damn near every micronutrient including sulfur and silica.

Silica, aloe, yucca, and coconut water all boost a plants immunity. Yucca or aloe and coconut water will create a protective barrier on your roots giving some resistance to root issues.

Neem/kelp tea every 2 weeks to keep soil pestilence at bay.

I'm not a products guy but one thing I do use is protekt for silica.

Sorry I know this is a lot of info. I'm overlapping some nutes but your trying to build a soil that has established plants. Take what you want. I'm a little too passionate maybe about true organics.

If you go to buildasoil.com and read their pdf called the system it has tons of info on living soil growing.

What Amendments/nutes Should I Add During Flower?

What Amendments/nutes Should I Add During Flower?

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