What do YOU use to amend coco??

bckwht · Feb 8, 2013

I just mixed up a coco batch from a recipe I found from a guy called "karmas a bitch" and it goes like this: 6 tbs blood, bone, kelp meal
3 tbs guano and marine cuisine
1/2 cup line
1 package mycos
10 cups perlite
6 cups worm castings
Let rest for 5-7 days, stirring daily and it's ready to go after that..the folks I saw that ran this had good healthy lookin plants but I am going to try some teas with it to hopefully improve results.may try a hempy bucket on one and see if that works any differently..I fucked up massively and lost 4 Eskimo kush and 5 black domina x space queens from cannarado due to not rinsing my bricks enough..heart breaking shit for me as those are the first plants I've ever lost..fml but I rinsed again overkill style hoping I can find a way to love coco like the rest of the farmers that do

caveman4.20 · Feb 8, 2013

lex0415 said:
Hell yeah, 100% organic coco grow, I would like to see how coco stacks up against soil with organic amendments outdoors. I was thinking of doing an organic coco grow for this outdoor season coming up. Basically, I would make a super coco medium just like super soil, but without the 'soil'. I was thinking something like this.

For every 3 cu.ft. of coco, use:
2 cups blood meal
2 cup bone meal
2 cups kelp (powder)
10 cups worm castings
caps bennies (og bio war)
soft rock phosphate (not sure how much)
1 cup limestone (is limestone needed for coco??)

No perlite because I want to retain as much moisture as possible without drowning the roots. But if the medium drains too slow, then I would add 10-20% perlite max.

Great idea... When I try your idea or something similar I will cook all amendments and then add coco... The cooking process MAY kill off plenty natural microbeasties left after the rinse of ocean salts

midwestdensies · Feb 8, 2013

Seamaiden said:
It's been a couple of years, but when I fire it back up it's going to be Botanicare coco cut with rice hulls (about 30%-40%), amended with some rock dusts, worm castings (about 10%), and possibly peat, I'm not sure about the peat yet because I haven't worked with it much. I want to do a fully organic, qualified organic coir grow, but I haven't decided how I'll address that.

this sounds really dope. would love to see how it progresses super interested.

caveman4.20 · Feb 8, 2013

Those specific fungus you don't want to kill because its the same fungus that breaks coco down to useable potash.

LexLuthor · Feb 8, 2013

kushtrees said:
I would definitely add about 30% perlite to that mix lex. It wont do much for your drainage at that point, but it will really help keep the coco and organics from compacting

I'll probably just go with 20%, that will help keep the root zone aerated and still hold the water I need, thanks.

Seamaiden · Feb 9, 2013

lex0415 said:
Hell yeah, 100% organic coco grow, I would like to see how coco stacks up against soil with organic amendments outdoors.

IMO it can't, at least, not the way I do things. OD my girls have all the room they need, and all the light the sun can possibly provide. Indoors, everything is limited.

lex0415 said:
I was thinking of doing an organic coco grow for this outdoor season coming up. Basically, I would make a super coco medium just like super soil, but without the 'soil'. I was thinking something like this.

Again, I see that as a very expensive proposition, due to the cost of the coir.

lex0415 said:
For every 3 cu.ft. of coco, use:
2 cups blood meal
2 cup bone meal
2 cups kelp (powder)
10 cups worm castings
caps bennies (og bio war)
soft rock phosphate (not sure how much)
1 cup limestone (is limestone needed for coco??)

Extra Ca is definitely needed, and then some. I would be careful using limestone, though, because of the carbonates in it, and the Ca:Mg ratio (IIRC dolomite lime is 2:1, I find that for cannabis you really want that Ca to be higher in proportion to the Mg).

lex0415 said:
No perlite because I want to retain as much moisture as possible without drowning the roots. But if the medium drains too slow, then I would add 10-20% perlite max.

Coir doesn't need to be 'cut' with anything for drainage, I cut it with rice hulls for cost effectiveness.

The whole reason I started growing with coir is because it can rival hydroponic growth rates in a way that soil just can't/doesn't. If I go back to soil inside, then I'm going back to slower growth rates, and that just doesn't cut my mustard because I am FUCKING CHEAP and hate paying more for anything than I have to.

And, seriously, if you can at all, ditch the fucking perlite and go with rice hulls if you must add something for aeration. The perlite floats to the top, not so with rice hulls. Perlite is non-renewable and non-sustainable. Rice hulls are a natural byproduct of agriculture, i.e. rice cultivation. The perlite offers nothing, while rice hulls can slowly provide KSiO4 (potassium silicate, I don't if I've expressed that correctly).

This weekend I'm making biochar with rice hulls, since we can do outdoor burns right now. I will hold some aside for mixing in with coir as well.

LexLuthor · Feb 9, 2013

@Seamaiden- If coco produces faster growth rates then soil indoors with pot size, temps, RH, lights, ect. being the same, then why won't it do better outdoors when all the factors are the same?? I guess if I use the same organics for soil and coco it won't make a difference in growth rates because the organic nutrients take the same amount of time to breakdown in both mediums?? Maybe thats why coco outperforms soil indoors, because people use synthetic salts with coco which are absorbed faster.

Coco coir is not that much more then soil, it cost the same as FF Ocean Forest and Black Gold. If you go with Canna Coco then it will cost alot, but bricks cost just as much, if not less, then any good quality soil.

Darth Fader · Feb 9, 2013

Roots organics sells an amended bagged coco. You could try starting with that. Thing I always wondered is do you still ph for hydro or for soil?

Re: growth rates. Nothing beats rdwc. Makes me think that coco growth rates are faster than soil simply due to more frequent feedings & the gas exchange that goes along with it. IMO drainage is not the real benefit of perlite/growstones/rice hulls: creating air pockets to accomodate better gas exchange is.

LexLuthor · Feb 9, 2013

Darth Fader said:
IMO drainage is not the real benefit of perlite/growstones/rice hulls: creating air pockets to accomodate better gas exchange is.

Exactly, with alot of substrates, the more air it holds then the less moisture its able to hold. If my soil drains too slow then it usually holds too much moisture, which reduces the oxygen that is available to roots. Perlite will aerate the soil/coco and improve drainage at the same time.

Seamaiden · Feb 9, 2013

lex0415 said:
@Seamaiden- If coco produces faster growth rates then soil indoors with pot size, temps, RH, lights, ect. being the same, then why won't it do better outdoors when all the factors are the same?? I guess if I use the same organics for soil and coco it won't make a difference in growth rates because the organic nutrients take the same amount of time to breakdown in both mediums?? Maybe thats why coco outperforms soil indoors, because people use synthetic salts with coco which are absorbed faster.

Coco coir is not that much more then soil, it cost the same as FF Ocean Forest and Black Gold. If you go with Canna Coco then it will cost alot, but bricks cost just as much, if not less, then any good quality soil.

I'm using raised beds and would need pallets of coir or soil, so using anything bagged doesn't make sense in my context. For those, I buy bulk topsoil, 10yds at a time, and amend as I feel it's needed. That's what makes the coir cost prohibitive. Also, it seems to me there's no point when I don't have to pay for sunlight, but I do have to pay for electricity. Return On Investment, that's what it's all about.

LexLuthor · Feb 9, 2013

Seamaiden said:
I'm using raised beds and would need pallets of coir or soil, so using anything bagged doesn't make sense in my context. For those, I buy bulk topsoil, 10yds at a time, and amend as I feel it's needed. That's what makes the coir cost prohibitive. Also, it seems to me there's no point when I don't have to pay for sunlight, but I do have to pay for electricity. Return On Investment, that's what it's all about.

Yeah, if your using multiple cubic yards of soil or coco it would cost alot to use expensive stuff in bags. IMHO with that much soil/coco, you would easily pay for it with your 1st lb. or 2 and I'm sure you could get at least 1 lb. per 1/2 cubic yard.

midwestdensies · Feb 9, 2013

today I ammended my coco beds with bio-char, frass, caps nute pack, alfalfa, and azomite. Coco was canna and I like the looks of things.
MW

Seamaiden · Feb 10, 2013

I can't find any God damn rice hulls ANYWHERE!!! My plan was to make biochar with them. I cannot, for the life of me, find them. They all so, "Oh, I had some last year and they never sold. Some woman bought what I had and used them for her pool (above-ground)."

(It's a small county, <40,000ppl, they're all telling me about the same woman and her pool.)

So, I'm wondering, can I use shavings for biochar? Or what? I need to be able to control the burning so it doesn't flame up and I can't see shavings working well in that scenario. I have a pile of wood chips, but they've been decomposing so nicely (and no, I haven't worked up the courage to go to Trees, Inc for more free chips, it makes me think of that day and... I just can't) so I had other plans for them.

How would you attack that problem?

Did I mention I usually buy the soil and compost by the truckload? Not annually, only the first couple of years. Now, outdoors, I'm focusing on building up (and down) the soil, this will be the third season for the back area. I know a lot of folks advocate spending a lot of money on the grows, and if selling maybe it makes sense. But, while terrible at math, I am a woman with excellent money skills and am interested in the best return on investment. If I could acquire a coir that wouldn't need massive rinsing for a price similar to topsoil, I might consider it more closely. But I can't see wasting all that water, and haven't found anything that's really cost-effective locally, it would have to be shipped.

I am also looking to close my loop, so to speak, in terms of farm inputs, as best I can. Make sense?

LexLuthor · Feb 10, 2013

I understand you not wanting to spend so much money on truck loads of coco if it doesn't improve your bottom line, it makes sense.

Just a few plants in coco next to a few plants in soil IMO would be something worth trying, just with a few bags. Doesn't mean you have to change your entire outdoor garden to coco, even if the coco plants did yield a little more then the soil plants, if its not worth it in the long run because of coco coir's high cost, then stay with soil.

I won't lose almost anything by trying a couple plants in coco because I don't use truck loads of soil in the first place, I wish I did though :) .

LexLuthor · Feb 11, 2013

bckwht said:
I just mixed up a coco batch from a recipe I found from a guy called "karmas a bitch" and it goes like this: 6 tbs blood, bone, kelp meal
3 tbs guano and marine cuisine
1/2 cup line
1 package mycos
10 cups perlite
6 cups worm castings
Let rest for 5-7 days, stirring daily and it's ready to go after that..the folks I saw that ran this had good healthy lookin plants but I am going to try some teas with it to hopefully improve results.may try a hempy bucket on one and see if that works any differently..I fucked up massively and lost 4 Eskimo kush and 5 black domina x space queens from cannarado due to not rinsing my bricks enough..heart breaking shit for me as those are the first plants I've ever lost..fml but I rinsed again overkill style hoping I can find a way to love coco like the rest of the farmers that do

The Tea's should help alot, good luck with that mix, sounds good.

LexLuthor · Feb 11, 2013

caveman4.20 said:
Great idea... When I try your idea or something similar I will cook all amendments and then add coco... The cooking process MAY kill off plenty natural microbeasties left after the rinse of ocean salts

I didn't know the cooking process could kill beneficials, I thought it would help them multiply, but they must be different. Thanks for the tip!! I'll make sure not to use coco until I'm ready for planting.

LexLuthor · Feb 11, 2013

I've been thinking, does anyone think 25% hydroton would be better then perlite?? I've never used hydroton before, but maybe I'll try some with perlite and others with hydroton to see if there is any difference.

Seamaiden · Feb 11, 2013

lex0415 said:
I didn't know the cooking process could kill beneficials, I thought it would help them multiply, but they must be different. Thanks for the tip!! I'll make sure not to use coco until I'm ready for planting.

I think that when folks talk about 'cooking' a soil they mean that they're giving it time for stuff to 'process.' That process, for me, by default is microbial--culturing and maintaining as many as possible throughout.

I think there's a thread about hydroton+coco here, and I think it was called Chow Mix or something like that.

LexLuthor · Feb 11, 2013

Seamaiden said:
I think that when folks talk about 'cooking' a soil they mean that they're giving it time for stuff to 'process.' That process, for me, by default is microbial--culturing and maintaining as many as possible throughout.

That is what I meant too, but I did not know you could kill the natural beneficial microbes in coco coir if you cooked/processed coco like soil.

What I got out of it was to mix all your amendments with EWC and let that 'cook', then when its time to plant, mix in the appropriate amount of coco, transplant clones or plant seedlings, then water.

Thanks for the info on the chow mix thread, I'll search for it.

caveman4.20 · Feb 11, 2013

Stuff like fresh greens and fresh manure or other Hot stuff might kill stuff in store bought soil with added bacteria or fungus or natural trichoderma in coco it may get too hot but a thermometer or on the safe side let your amendments compost then add to coco but I'm just giving personal opinion with little experience composting

What do YOU use to amend coco??

What do YOU use to amend coco??

bckwht

caveman4.20

midwestdensies

caveman4.20

LexLuthor

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

LexLuthor

Darth Fader

LexLuthor

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

LexLuthor

midwestdensies

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

LexLuthor

LexLuthor

LexLuthor

LexLuthor

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

LexLuthor

caveman4.20

What do YOU use to amend coco??

What do YOU use to amend coco??

bckwht

caveman4.20

midwestdensies

caveman4.20

LexLuthor

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

LexLuthor

Darth Fader

LexLuthor

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

LexLuthor

midwestdensies

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

LexLuthor

LexLuthor

LexLuthor

LexLuthor

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

LexLuthor

caveman4.20

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