Hey sea can u talk about the chemistry in that.lol. Kidding!JMS Stylet oil is very good, as is a few drops of something like Dr. Bronner's. I don't usually foliar Cap's beneficials, though, I usually am using those as a soil drench. In this instance, I would lean towards a few drops of soap to break the surface tension here, rather than an oil which may smother the microorganisms. Of course... the functional difference between the soap and the oil is the lye that bonds with the fats, so there're still lipids in there, they just can't behave the same. Don't ask me to talk about the chemistry behind it, that's for the squigginator.
Thanks for the wisdom led! Pissed now. Lol. Looks like yucca is the move. Thanks again!Not sure if the soap is safe to bennies. Have not tested under a scope.
Yucca extract makes sprays stick to crop foliage. Active ingredients are steroid saponins-complex sugar structures which help plants assimilate nutrients. Safe to "bennies".
@mastacheeser Indicate 5 or Kenetic will save you a ton of $$ over DM. Way better application rate and cost. Listed as being compatible with "bennies" like bactillus.
Indicate 5 has built in ph indicator. http://www.brandt.co/Portals/0/PDFs/IND5-BROCH-2007.pdf
@Tnelz Coco wet is not "Bennie" safe. I tested adding coco wet to aact. Checked the aact before and after under a microscope. Microbes went dormant after adding coco wet.
@Seamaiden, No chemistry involved. What is obvious to me when I think about the products purpose. IT is a a fungicide!
Cide = Death Stylet oil is a fungicide so there goes any fungi you brewed.
To correct myself: no where on the "Humboldt Sticky" label does it say anything about Yucca, I was thinking of another product. The ONLY thing I see as far as contents is "also contains non-plant-food ingredients: organic saponins." Which would make you think it's microbe-safe... but... Not sure if this is the only ingredients, as in, with the presence of the word "also", you would expect an accompanied list of MAIN ingredients. Hm?I used coco wet for a very long time, with various applications. Shit!
Lately I've used Humboldt Sticky which is mostly yucca extract I believe, and for it's purpose, it works very well. Just hoping it doesn't harm microbes....?
I think I'm going to order some straight yucca extract either way... been meaning to for some time. Good info @leadsled!
Its activity is by physical barrier to fruiting bodies. If the beneficials are intended to get into the leaf cuticle then I'm not sure how they would kill the fungi and bacteria, but I believe that if they're locked up in a droplet of water they have about as much chance of making it into the cuticle. I haven't scoped it, and like I said, I don't really foliar the bennies that often, they're usually applied as soil drenches.@Seamaiden, No chemistry involved. What is obvious to me when I think about the products purpose. IT is a a fungicide!
Cide = Death Stylet oil is a fungicide so there goes any fungi you brewed.
Probably does not matter in your case. Since your approach is different.Its activity is by physical barrier to fruiting bodies. If the beneficials are intended to get into the leaf cuticle then I'm not sure how they would kill the fungi and bacteria, but I believe that if they're locked up in a droplet of water they have about as much chance of making it into the cuticle. I haven't scoped it, and like I said, I don't really foliar the bennies that often, they're usually applied as soil drenches.
Saponins are called so because they are 'soapy', yes? ;)
Indeed, the question was actually rather specific to foliars of beneficial microbes, not just foliars. I wasn't comfortable with my response after reading yours, so I did some digging and sought out some answers. First, I tried to find out if there's been any kind of study done on how JMS or true soaps affect soil microbes, and not having a whole lot of time, I really didn't find anything (if it's out there). I do use foliar applications, just not often, and ACTs are applied in this manner even less often.Probably does not matter in your case. Since your approach is different.
I never said anything about bacteria only fungi. I probably should have not posted anything. The microbes can break down the waxes oils, if they were being applied.
Again does not apply to you since you do not foliar.
Reason I say that. I should have put a little more time thinking about it before posting.
bacteria are what is doing alot of the protection via a biofilm on the leaves. So my point about the fungicide is probably not important as far as building a biofilm of bacteria that is being brewed in a tea.
Yes, saponins are soaps.
The question was about a sticker spreader for foliar, yet you keep talking about what you use. Does not seem relevant. Or is it?
Seamaiden said:I have a question for you with regard to sticker-spreaders and beneficial microbes used on leaf surfaces. I've used a few drops of Dr. Bronner's soap, or JMS Stylet oil, when foliaring ACT. Am I undoing the work the microbes have just done by growing?
KIS said:With ACT you don't need anything. The bacteria form natural glues. You're probably fine though.
Haha... I passed some cuts to an acquaintance that had a small bit of this effect, and they kicked and screamed that I passed them cuts with PM, even after I'd explained what the spots were... Silly, ungrateful son of a gun.So, I let the foliar mix settle out and scooped from the top to avoid the talc. Talc was still present and now looks like the worst case of PM ever...lol. The fungus gnats freaked out! I gave them all plenty of soil drench..but wanted to kill some fliers. 24 hrs and I don't see any fliers at all..that's a good sign. It spread pretty even when I sprayed..but next time I do this I'm going to make a foliar tea...just a small bit of molasses and some EWC's.
Thanks for all the input guys..really appreciate it.
@ leadsled man I wish I had a microscope...might be time to troll ebay.
Indeed, the question was actually rather specific to foliars of beneficial microbes, not just foliars. I wasn't comfortable with my response after reading yours, so I did some digging and sought out some answers. First, I tried to find out if there's been any kind of study done on how JMS or true soaps affect soil microbes, and not having a whole lot of time, I really didn't find anything (if it's out there). I do use foliar applications, just not often, and ACTs are applied in this manner even less often.
So I contacted one of the cats who runs KIS Organics, they also work closely with Microbeman, and the elder of the father & son pair is cited by one Elaine Ingham in her book on AACTs, so I consider theirs to be expert recommendations. Remembering that I do *not* regularly use beneficial microbe foliar applications, here's the brief exchange.
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