Why do people still grow with NFT?

Fire Bean · Aug 20, 2014

Just wondering why people still use NFT? Water and nutrient uptake are affected by DO levels at the root zone, which is controlled by various metabolic processes that are influenced by environment. NFT is one of the poorest techniques at providing sufficient DO as the accumulation of layered root masses inhibit gas exchange. I know some growers try to mitigate this issue by modifying the depth and shape of the trough, but inevitably the exit drain of the trough will have less DO than the delivery creating an imbalance within your crop. One of the best ways to promote high cannabis yields is focusing on consistency, and high yields are a function of good cannabis husbandry...and I really don't think NFT falls into that category.

AfricanHaze · Aug 20, 2014

What about adding 02 to your water?

Fire Bean · Aug 20, 2014

I would imagine that would be pricey. O2 is notoriously expensive. Where would you get it from - hospitals?

AfricanHaze · Aug 20, 2014

I meant like in the form of air.

Fire Bean · Aug 20, 2014

It depends how you do it. You mean for NFT? It would be more effective in DWC or recirc. The amount of DO available will be up to the temps and ion contents of the solution you are providing. A lot of growers don’t get this right and fail at the first step. Also its undeniably illogical to assume applying DO enriched water to root balls ensure adequate oxygenation into the root zone, as only the outer layers can benefit...

Gandalfalfa · Aug 20, 2014

I’ve never got great yields from NFT. Back in the day, I remember it being all the buzz. But it’s consistently let me down as a growing technique. I’d say I can expect 10 - 15% reduction in yield as opposed to other techniques.

Gandalfalfa · Aug 20, 2014

But on the upside it's easy. Which is probably the answer to your question.

Coir · Aug 21, 2014

Just because some people fail at a method does not mean it can't be done! Just think what the world would be like if every time someone pronounced they had tried something and it didn't work, the rest of us simply agreed and moved on.
As an example, about 25 years ago, I had a very famous PhD, author, and self proclaimed "Expert" in all things hydroponic in one of my commercial greenhouses telling me that they had tried growing tomatoes and cucumbers in an NFT system in the "lab" and it simply didn't work and that he published that information in his last book. While he was telling me this, he was eating a tomato off of one of over 1000 plants I had growing in a large scale NFT system. My response to him was simply "good thing I didn't read your book before I built this greenhouse then".
I have grown countless different types of plants in NFT systems over the last 30 years without having DO in the root system be a problem. I still have peppers, melons, basil, lettuce, and tomatoes growing out of vinyl rain gutters on the side wall of my greenhouse and they produce enough each year to cover my operating expenses for the entire building.
There is a higher risk of problems with NFT in that if a pump quits or reservoir runs dry and no one is there at the time, you stand a good chance on loosing all your plants but there are also backup systems or alarms that can easily be built into the system to keep from having major disasters.

Canappa · Aug 21, 2014

I built my nft/aeroflow gutters in the 90's and have been running it since then. I love my nft system and will never grow in soil. Granted its not for everyone but that's the way u like it. I have made several changes over the years and it only gets better with time. I have tried soil and nft and I choose to grow nft bro cause I like and my patients love the smoke and nothing else matters. Check out my posting with my nft its like no others.

MrBanjo · Aug 21, 2014

On a side note, what about a small oxygen concentrator? that could pump almost pure oxygen into your airstones....

Not a hydro guy (I've dabbled...) so I don't know if this would help or hurt...

forsaken · Aug 21, 2014

I’ve never heard of any one gassing their res tank with pure O2, but I have worked in aquaculture in the past and know it’s not uncommon for pure O2 to be used for keeping aquatic organisms alive. Micropore gas stones only work under high pressure, e.g. from a O2 canister - a normal air pump would just burn out. These stones produce a milky white cloud of micro O2 bubbles in the water. The bubbles stay around for longer, because they are smaller and take longer to float to the surface.

Fire Bean · Aug 21, 2014

It doesn’t matter how much O2 you try and shove in the solution, water has a limited capacity for holding DO. Water at 68 degrees maxes out at 9mg/L.

NFT is subject to the same draw backs as vertical grow systems or any other variants. Plants at close to the delivery feed will be better off than plants near the exit drain. Oxygenation at the root zone is as critical as carbon fixation in the stroma - both are indirectly dependant on the functionality of the other.

Interesting to hear some of you actually prefer it as a grow method...

Canappa · Aug 21, 2014

But the main reason I grow NFT it stays clean no dirt in my room;) Two wks veg time 6 wks flower and I am done. I have had my ups and downs over the years but dirt is a pain to work with IMO.

Coir · Aug 21, 2014

Fire Bean said:
It doesn’t matter how much O2 you try and shove in the solution, water has a limited capacity for holding DO. Water at 68 degrees maxes out at 9mg/L.

NFT is subject to the same draw backs as vertical grow systems or any other variants. Plants at close to the delivery feed will be better off than plants near the exit drain. Oxygenation at the root zone is as critical as carbon fixation in the stroma - both are indirectly dependant on the functionality of the other.

Interesting to hear some of you actually prefer it as a grow method...

What's even more interesting is that I find the plants at the drain end of the system produce just as well as the plants at the feed end which is over 100'. If the nutrient solution was completely depleted of oxygen, then this would not be the case. Again, when people come to me with their scientific theory and textbooks, I love being able to show them real life.
Right now, I have 5 melon plants growing in the bottom row of a 100' long three tier system. All three tiers are the same length and all are fed from a 30 gallon reservoir. There is no added oxygenation other than the water falling back into the reservoir at the drain end. The top row is about 24 inches above the reservoir and it drains back in through a rain gutter downspout.
The melons are equally spaced out along the 100' row with basil in between spaced at 8 inch intervals and the very top of the row has 6 pepper plants which gives me 150 plants in the row(the other two rows are identical except the middle is all basil and top all lettuce). Checking brix level of melons from each plant shows identical levels of sugar. If your theory was true, then the melon plant closest to where the feed enters the system should be healthier and producing fruit of a higher quality which it is not.

Sativied · Aug 21, 2014

The amount of nutrients required to reach its max potential is a range and not 1 specific number. A plant only needs "enough", more is not more. If you know a little about the 3 main ways of nutrient uptake in soil it's easy to see why NFT is in fact so efficient in both water and nutrient usage. I get the same yields I got on soil with mineral nutes and organics, close to a 1 gpw, just faster. It is imo the best hydroponic system because it's so easy to keep the DO level sufficient. The continues flow refreshes the root zone constantly, the return waterfall helps aerating the soup. In an (efficient) NFT there's an abundance of everything the plant needs. Every piece of root is surrounded with the nutrient solution, which is much more than it needs (or like in soil).

Besides that, plenty of huge greenhouses across the globe that have very long trays with all perfectly equal plants. Nice theory, but in practice it doesn't work that way.

Canappa · Aug 21, 2014

Sativied said:
The amount of nutrients required to reach its max potential is a range and not 1 specific number. A plant only needs "enough", more is not more. If you know a little about the 3 main ways of nutrient uptake in soil it's easy to see why NFT is in fact so efficient in both water and nutrient usage. I get the same yields I got on soil with mineral nutes and organics, close to a 1 gpw, just faster. It is imo the best hydroponic system because it's so easy to keep the DO level sufficient. The continues flow refreshes the root zone constantly, the return waterfall helps aerating the soup. In an (efficient) NFT there's an abundance of everything the plant needs. Every piece of root is surrounded with the nutrient solution, which is much more than it needs (or like in soil).

Besides that, plenty of huge greenhouses across the globe that have very long trays with all perfectly equal plants. Nice theory, but in practice it doesn't work that way.

Well said Bro I agree with what you say took me many years to get where I am at today, I am still learning this system on a daily basis. From what I have learned it NFT is not not for people who want to get crazy with the nutes, Less is Best in NFT growing

Coir · Aug 21, 2014

Canappa said:
Well said Bro I agree with what you say took me many years to get where I am at today, I am still learning this system on a daily basis. From what I have learned it NFT is not not for people who want to get crazy with the nutes, Less is Best in NFT growing

Actually, I have found it pretty forgiving barring anything like a dry reservoir or pump failure. I have 450 plants on each side of the greenhouse running out of a 30 gallon reservoir and on a hot day, they can easily drink up the entire thing. I will find my dissolved solids reaching 3000-4000ppm when I return from deliveries or the farmers market when it's hot and never have plant damage. I simply refill the reservoir and then make any necessary adjustments after that. I also have plants in every stage from seedling to fully mature and they all get fed at the same strength. Since lettuce seedlings don't burn at 4000ppm, it's safe to say that most things will survive just fine in a wide variety of nutrient strengths.

NagaKing · Aug 24, 2014

Fire Bean said:
It doesn’t matter how much O2 you try and shove in the solution, water has a limited capacity for holding DO. Water at 68 degrees maxes out at 9mg/L.

Very true.
Stupid mother nature and her silly laws of chemistry...
Lucky intelligent human kind will save the day.
Don’t grow plants in water...
Grow in fluorocarbon (liquid oxygen) for demonic and unnatural growth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing

jimbooo · Aug 24, 2014

Wow that has to be simultaneously the most ingenious and idiotic grow tip I have ever read on a grow forum. Anywhere. 10 / 10 for that one. Thank you for being the first person to make me laugh out loud today!! hehehe

NagaKing · Aug 24, 2014

Much obliged my dear fellow.
Just trying to maintain an air of healthy comedianry amongst the
Farm...
;)

Why do people still grow with NFT?

Why do people still grow with NFT?

Fire Bean

AfricanHaze

Fire Bean

AfricanHaze

Fire Bean

Gandalfalfa

Gandalfalfa

Coir

Canappa

MrBanjo

forsaken

Fire Bean

Canappa

Coir

Sativied

Ruler of the Whorled

Canappa

Coir

NagaKing

jimbooo

NagaKing

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