Why do stems point up, leaves roll and curl down

Startmy420 · Sep 19, 2021

Hi,I’m new here.
There is one plant of 5. Only this one stems point up and curl, roll down.
I use coco/perlite 60%/40% in 2 gals pot with good drainage.
300w Viparspectra growing light in 2”x2” tent within 20” high And 18/6 photoperiod.
Always watering ph 5.5-5.8 fresh solution once or twice per day.EC is around 0.8-1.0. Run off also 0.8-1.0.
Humidity 60-70%.Temp 20-26 degrees.
I google everything and make sure it’s totally on the track.
It happened 5days ago, I’m worried about my little girl. Desperate for the help.
The last two pics are showing others growing great.

MasterUnvailed · Sep 19, 2021

So, you are watering at a frequency of twice per day? And of these two times, do both batches of water have the .8-1 EC value? I grow in DWC which actually has many of the same parameters as your medium. How old are your plants altogether?...Twice a day, especially at 60-70% humidity, seems like too much but again, I am NOT experienced that well in anything but DWC. Until a coco expert arrives, I'll help as best as I can. :)

Startmy420 · Sep 19, 2021

Thanks for the reply, Masterunvailed.
Yes, mostly twice per day but if pot is still heavy I will skip once.
And yes, always water have 0.8-1 EC value.
It's about two weeks.

OldManRiver · Sep 20, 2021

It's overwatered. Weed likes to get its feet dry before you water again. Twice a day is madness. Every two or three days will be much better.

Startmy420 · Sep 20, 2021

OldManRiver said:
It's overwatered. Weed likes to get its feet dry before you water again. Twice a day is madness. Every two or three days will be much better.

Yeah... I considered overwatering before
but a lot of people in this forum say you can water whatever you want in a coco medium.
And do not dry out.

I have 4 girls beside this and doing very well with twice watering per day.
Even bigger pot size.

Justlovetogrow · Sep 20, 2021

I find when the plants are smaller u can’t just water whenever and however u like but once u get a big root system in place then they can take a smashing with the water no point keeping the bottom half of the pot saturated when the root system hasn’t made it there yet just my 2cents worth good luck mate

Startmy420 · Sep 20, 2021

Justlovetogrow said:
I find when the plants are smaller u can’t just water whenever and however u like but once u get a big root system in place then they can take a smashing with the water no point keeping the bottom half of the pot saturated when the root system hasn’t made it there yet just my 2cents worth good luck mate

Thanks mate, I’ll try to low the value and frequency of my watering for a couple days then see what happens.

OldManRiver · Sep 20, 2021

Startmy420 said:
Yeah... I considered overwatering before
but a lot of people in this forum say you can water whatever you want in a coco medium.
And do not dry out.

You're watering a lot, and the plant is showing lots of signs of overwatering.

Aqua Man · Sep 20, 2021

OldManRiver said:
A lot of people in this forum don't know much. You're watering a lot, and the plant is showing lots of signs of overwatering.

60/40 coco perlite.... this is NOT soil. A LOT of ppl know a lot... leaves pointing up is overwatering? Cmon man. Stop thw bashing of members and instead have a healthy debate for once. I will gladly do that with you if you are inclined. One thing I have learned that is an absolute in cannabis (and its not a wet dry cycle) is that there are no absolutes but rather each grownis different. How do roots grow submerged in hydro and not be over watered? Because to much water is NOT an issue, its lack of o2 and a 60/40 mix of coco is going to be impossible to overwater if the proper environment is given.

Before we go off on the 40 yrs of experience part there is a difference in 40 yrs experience and 1 yr of experience repeated 40 times. So no I don't give experience the weight that others may.

OP your giving these plants as much light as a fully mature plant in 12/12 would use and that why you are seeing these symtoms. I would also keep your twmls closer to 25C as 20C is getting a bit to cool and that will slow uptake.

Also as started about drop the humidity to around 60%

Aqua Man · Sep 20, 2021

At this point you can probably get away with watering once every day or even possibly 2 yes.... but thats not the cause of your issues.

Just to be clear.

OldManRiver · Sep 20, 2021

@Aquaman, look at the plant bottom center in the first picture. Sure looks like classic overwatering. As to your question, why do plants survive in hydro, I'll put it back to you, why so we use airstones and aeration in hydro? But I can tell that my opinion isn't desired, carry on.

Startmy420 · Sep 20, 2021

Aqua Man said:
60/40 coco perlite.... this is NOT soil. A LOT of ppl know a lot... leaves pointing up is overwatering? Cmon man. Stop thw bashing of members and instead have a healthy debate for once. I will gladly do that with you if you are inclined. One thing I have learned that is an absolute in cannabis (and its not a wet dry cycle) is that there are no absolutes but rather each grownis different. How do roots grow submerged in hydro and not be over watered? Because to much water is NOT an issue, its lack of o2 and a 60/40 mix of coco is going to be impossible to overwater if the proper environment is given.

Before we go off on the 40 yrs of experience part there is a difference in 40 yrs experience and 1 yr of experience repeated 40 times. So no I don't give experience the weight that others may.

OP your giving these plants as much light as a fully mature plant in 12/12 would use and that why you are seeing these symtoms. I would also keep your twmls closer to 25C as 20C is getting a bit to cool and that will slow uptake.

Also as started about drop the humidity to around 60%

Thank you for the reply.
Yeah... that's what I'm talking about coco is not soil.
I'll drop the humidity to 60%.
Btw I didn't mention that it's an auto strain. Should I change 18/6 to 12/12?

DanC520 · Sep 21, 2021

OldManRiver said:
It's overwatered. Weed likes to get its feet dry before you water again. Twice a day is madness. Every two or three days will be much better.

I must be loco. Mine get multi feeds a day after 10-14 days old.

Aqua Man · Sep 21, 2021

OldManRiver said:
@Aquaman, look at the plant bottom center in the first picture. Sure looks like classic overwatering. As to your question, why do plants survive in hydro, I'll put it back to you, why so we use airstones and aeration in hydro? But I can tell that my opinion isn't desired, carry on.

It's not the bubble that create oxygen exchange in water its the surface agitation they make bro.

I see your point on the bottom leaves but that's from poor transpiration and the stomata closing from stress. Just not stress from lack of o2. (Overwatering) under and over watering imo would be the whole plant.

I dont think your way off for thinking that way either because yes those leaves look exactly like it. But like over under and other similar looking things they are all from lack of transpiration and most commonly overwatering but not always.

Sorry if I seemed a bit harsh. I just get defensive over bashing members here. There are a lot of great growers and knowledge here. Your definitely part of that but imo it's not overwatering this time.

Aqua Man · Sep 21, 2021

Startmy420 said:
Thank you for the reply.
Yeah... that's what I'm talking about coco is not soil.
I'll drop the humidity to 60%.
Btw I didn't mention that it's an auto strain. Should I change 18/6 to 12/12?

18/6 and back the lights way off.

OldManRiver · Sep 21, 2021

@Aqua Man, Look at this picture. The first four sets of leaves are rolling under. The bottom two sets (counting the cotyledons) are starting to wilt, while the top two are curling under. The top is turgid, while lower leaves are wilting. Overwatering is the most common cause of such symptoms. There may be other explanations, but new growers commonly over water (and over fertilize) and this has all the hallmarks of overwatering. The OP states that he is watering twice a day. If you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras, until you see stripes. Perhaps this pot has worse drainage, perhaps this plant is more susceptible to moistness.

Your comment about agitation vs whatever misses the mark. The point is that if you don't aerate the solution, the roots suffer because of lack of oxygen, and you see symptoms like this. That is why aeration matters in hydro. In solid medium, if the medium doesn't drain out, no oxygen gets in there, root hairs die, and you start to see overwatering syndrome. The simplest, easy to test approach is to simply reduce the number of times the plant gets watered a day. I could be incorrect here, as I don't use coco for weed, but it's a disservice to the OP to ignore that probable cause.

As to harshness towards the members, there are a lot of members that have maybe two crops under their belt that demonstrate near complete ignorance of basic plant physiology, as well as fertilizer chemistry and usage by plants, who push garbage advice on plant and fertilizer management as if they are expert. It makes no sense to treat such advice as valuable. I accept that my impatience with that is not desired, and shall now retire for the season.

Aqua Man · Sep 21, 2021

OldManRiver said:
Your comment about agitation vs whatever misses the mark. The point is that if you don't aerate the solution, the roots suffer because of lack of oxygen, and you see symptoms like this. That is why aeration matters in hydro. In solid medium, if the medium doesn't drain out, no oxygen gets in there, root hairs die, and you start to see overwatering syndrome. The simplest, easy to test approach is to simply reduce the number of times the plant gets watered a day. I could be incorrect here, as I don't use coco for weed, but it's a disservice to the OP to ignore that probable cause

How does it miss the mark? O2 is extremely hard to dissolve in water. It needs a dwell time that far exceeds the time the bubbles are exposed when rising to the surface.

It's not the aeration that causes gas exchange it's the surface agitation it creates. This is easily seen by systems with waterfalls and no aeration at all.

For good gas exchange you need 2 things.... surface agitation and water column mixing. You don't need aeration to do this. Another method is called flumong and that's used often in ponds and reservoirs.

I dont disagree with the symtoms you are taking about. It's the root cause of them.

The symptoms all point to transpiration as the issue... which includes possible causes like overwatering so your not wrong in your observation by any means. I only disagree with the cause of that.

Don't take it personal and don't let it deter you. It's not like I haven't been wrong a million and one times.

Startmy420 · Sep 22, 2021

Just chill guys... I will keep updating and finding out what’s going on my girl.

For the last two days I only water once and drainage is good.
I can see the some roots reach out the drainage hole.
New fan on the top is totally normal. Humidity drops to 60%.
Temp 25 lights on and 20 light off.

TSD · Sep 22, 2021

Justlovetogrow said:
I find when the plants are smaller u can’t just water whenever and however u like but once u get a big root system in place then they can take a smashing with the water no point keeping the bottom half of the pot saturated when the root system hasn’t made it there yet just my 2cents worth good luck mate

Plus that is a smaller pot, so it might be easy to accidentally water too much since the other pots are all bigger... like just absent mindedly. Bit I don't use coco... so I have no clue on that front.

OldManRiver · Sep 24, 2021

Aqua Man said:
The symptoms all point to transpiration as the issue... which includes possible causes like overwatering so your not wrong in your observation by any means. I only disagree with the cause of that.

I must not be understanding something. Transpiration is a natural function, you speak of it as a negative thing, or a thing to be managed. Transpiration is the final gasp of water as it moves through the plant, I am curious as to what you propose here.

Why do stems point up, leaves roll and curl down

Why do stems point up, leaves roll and curl down

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