Why is a chiller important?

Capulator · Aug 31, 2011

sorry TF. I just re read and understand that the fulvic and tea solution is 400 ppm, so yeah thats about as good as plain water and acting like the flush.

TrichromeFan · Aug 31, 2011

You could try to use the same feed lines for both, but I have found that I like to keep them separate for nute hygiene. I use a bucket (16 gal muck bucket for all of my flower room), drop a pump into her with a long piece of 1/2" poly hose with a valve close to the outlet (a wand with a flow control is good too). I just top feed with the solution by hand. I believe it to saturate the media the best. Another bonus is that it gives you more opportunity to just stare at the top of the coco. I see that as a bonus. That is the only way that I witnessed my latest bug incident. They floated up out of the media when I top fed by hand. Never saw any of that watching the plants getting fed by the drip rings. Any opportunity to get more personal with your plants, just puts you that much more in touch with the pulse of your garden.

-TF

Capulator · Sep 1, 2011

Werd to that TF. Hand water or not, Im in there more than I can help myself anyway. I am sure you are as well.

I just like basking in the artificial sun with my lady friends.

TrichromeFan · Sep 1, 2011

I think that you missed a spot with the sunscreen.

-TF

freegrow · Sep 1, 2011

mrdizzle said:
IMO coco doesnt need a chiller, you could have your res at a simmer and it wouldnt hurt coco

I have been reusing coco, pulling out the main root, flushing, and transplanting, plants thrive. I could probably take a dump in my res and nothing but dank would come out the other end

donkdbz said it with the carbs thou, you can make some serious yeast with carbs, and air stone, and some luke warm nutes

Im on like 6th gen with my coco ...no chiller in res.

TrichromeFan said:
I use no chiller for my coco. If res temps stay 70-75 I can get up to a week on a tank. If I run more like 80 things start to get funky with sediment in 2 days. The canna nutes more so than the cns17 nutes. At this point, I see no need to use a chiller for coco in my setup. I'll just make sure that any tanks that I want to last for a week won't have any carbs to add to the mix.

-TF

seems to indicate that its more benifical for life to be warmer
didnt like lightning strike some water with organic compounds in it and
bam life
like jurasic park .......life will find a way lol

Capulator said:
Werd to that TF. Hand water or not, Im in there more than I can help myself anyway. I am sure you are as well.

I just like basking in the artificial sun with my lady friends.

good for c02 but good god man ...lol
why is the guy in the pic smiling ...thats shits gonna hurt lol

Capulator · Sep 1, 2011

freegrow said:
Im on like 6th gen with my coco ...no chiller in res.

seems to indicate that its more benifical for life to be warmer
didnt like lightning strike some water with organic compounds in it and
bam life
like jurasic park .......life will find a way lol

good for c02 but good god man ...lol
why is the guy in the pic smiling ...thats shits gonna hurt lol

You running bennies freegrow?

Capulator · Sep 1, 2011

http://www.ftb.com.hr/41/41-37.pdf

Lots of good info on trichoderma here.

And this little tidbit about pH:

pH measurements in Coir

Coco coir buffers pH in the range of 5.5 – 7. However bacterial activity and nutrient quality can have an impact on pH stability within the media.

Another misconception I have commonly encountered is that by measuring the run off (waste) in coir it is possible to measure the pH of the medium. Let’s quickly dispel with this myth. Coir media will retain some elements and release others (a process of preferential retention of cations) based on the uptake needs of plants and the prevailing conditions of/within the media.

Because of this, measuring the run off (waste) will not reflect the pH within the coir medium (i.e. the rhizosphere environment of the plants).

The correct way to measure pH, in coco substrate, is to take samples of the media from around the root zone. These samples are then added to distilled water at a 5:1 ratio (5 parts distilled water to 1 part media), then vigorously shaken or blended and tested with a pH meter. This method will provide you with the correct pH within the coir media (rhizosphere) environment.

freegrow · Sep 1, 2011

no..........no I dont use them
the coco I use is supose to be innoculated
I just feed them with moleasses

The correct way to measure pH, in coco substrate, is to take samples of the media from around the root zone. These samples are then added to distilled water at a 5:1 ratio (5 parts distilled water to 1 part media), then vigorously shaken or blended and tested with a pH meter. This method will provide you with the correct pH within the coir media (rhizosphere) environment.

the rapitest is what I use

I have NPK test also did 2 test 3 samples per test
one test with co co flushed to 40 ppm
the other not flushed

now this was coco from my last run I dont flush persay I just water the last 5 days to 30% run off that is like 3 waterings

my results were thus
test 1 not flushed ppm 1100
PH 6.5
N n0 depleted
p p4 surplus
K k3 sufficient

test 2 flushed to 40 ppm
PH 6.5
N N0 depleted
p P2 adequate
K K3 sufficient

notice how the K stays the same this demonstrates the holding effect you are talking about. now this dosent show micros like cal. or mag.
but coco is supose to hold cal. alot . but can roots or bennies access these stores of nutes ? cap do you know?

Donkdbz · Sep 1, 2011

Capulator said:
Donk, Are you using any type of pump in the res to circulate water (no airstone). In my pond experience, stagnant water will get to smelling much faster. Also, with an airstone in the res maybe you are brewing it. Is the res in the dark? Perhaps you could mix the carbs separately and add them to just the coco.
:

No airstones.Res is sitting in the dark. 185gph water pump..1/2 tube...chiller. ...1/2 tube... water fall back into res.
100gph water pump lying on bottom to stir.

I use sweet raw for carbs.

I hand feed my bene's, mykos and earth worm/hum tea. once a week.

If you know the PH and PPM of your nutes and you have a lil runoff every time you water dtw theres no point to checking your medium or the runoff.

Capulator · Sep 2, 2011

freegrow said:
no..........no I dont use them
the coco I use is supose to be innoculated
I just feed them with moleasses

the rapitest is what I use

I have NPK test also did 2 test 3 samples per test
one test with co co flushed to 40 ppm
the other not flushed

now this was coco from my last run I dont flush persay I just water the last 5 days to 30% run off that is like 3 waterings

my results were thus
test 1 not flushed ppm 1100
PH 6.5
N n0 depleted
p p4 surplus
K k3 sufficient

test 2 flushed to 40 ppm
PH 6.5
N N0 depleted
p P2 adequate
K K3 sufficient

notice how the K stays the same this demonstrates the holding effect you are talking about. now this dosent show micros like cal. or mag.
but coco is supose to hold cal. alot . but can roots or bennies access these stores of nutes ? cap do you know?

I dont know if they can access the stores. I am wondering if they are released during plain watering, or just held. I will have to ask this question of someone who knows a lot more than I do about coco and get an answer for you.

You coudl always send a coco sample in tot he lab to see whats left after a flush. Maybe you coudl ease backon nutes if there are plenty for the plant... save a little $.

Heres what I know about the trichoderma and why they are helpful: They infiltrate the plant root cells, and get just far enough to cause the plant to activate its SAR (). From there, they feed on the plants waste and will attack other fungi (pythium) as a means of controlling their territory and protectign the plant (symbiosis). I am not sure they eat nutes. I do believe they eat plant waste though. The bacillis subtillis is a bacteria with many beneficial properties for humans and plants. I talk to a hydro guy in australia and he says that I should be including trichoderma hazardium and bacillis subtillus to enhance plant health. I plan on buying driy spores and innoculating all of my rhizoshperes.

... I read today on the botanicare coco bag that you shoudl only use cal mag for the first 2 weeks of the grow.

Donkdbz said:
No airstones.Res is sitting in the dark. 185gph water pump..1/2 tube...chiller. ...1/2 tube... water fall back into res.
100gph water pump lying on bottom to stir.

I use sweet raw for carbs.

I hand feed my bene's, mykos and earth worm/hum tea. once a week.

If you know the PH and PPM of your nutes and you have a lil runoff every time you water dtw theres no point to checking your medium or the runoff.

So you are recirculating the solution yes?

I agree about feeding bennies separate and not keeping them in the res.

Have you looked at hibrix for a sweetener as opposed to raw?

Capulator · Sep 2, 2011

looking in to a specific bacteria that mobilizes available K... This could be something magical for coco.

Green Mopho · Sep 2, 2011

Depends on your situation, setup, seasonal temps, etc....I have ran automated coco, and the reservoirs were outside of the room, un-air conditioned, with ambient temps in the 90s mid-summer. I was getting some über-stinky smells coming out of those reservoirs w/o a chiller, especially when I was adding organics, compost teas, etc. My water temps were 85+ degrees...no bueno. Added a chiller and it made a difference in how the plants looked and eliminated the stink from the res.

Capulator · Sep 3, 2011

Green Mopho said:
Depends on your situation, setup, seasonal temps, etc....I have ran automated coco, and the reservoirs were outside of the room, un-air conditioned, with ambient temps in the 90s mid-summer. I was getting some über-stinky smells coming out of those reservoirs w/o a chiller, especially when I was adding organics, compost teas, etc. My water temps were 85+ degrees...no bueno. Added a chiller and it made a difference in how the plants looked and eliminated the stink from the res.

I would think that the best way to deal with this is to add the organics/teas separately in to the coco. Of course, if you are automated this may not be an option. However, I believe you could add the organics once weekly and get away with it.

Thank you for the input regardless GM.

Green Mopho · Sep 3, 2011

Capulator said:
I would think that the best way to deal with this is to add the organics/teas separately in to the coco. Of course, if you are automated this may not be an option. However, I believe you could add the organics once weekly and get away with it.

Thank you for the input regardless GM.

I'm not a fan of top dressing coco really, or amending EWC to the coco, as it makes it retain too much water. However, going in once or twice per week to feed a straight compost tea instead of synthetics makes sense. Kind of your weekly innoculant. That way you could mix and brew the compost tea separately and use it fresh, rather than blending it into your reservoir. Makes sense to me, good discussion!

Capulator · Sep 3, 2011

Green Mopho said:
I'm not a fan of top dressing coco really, or amending EWC to the coco, as it makes it retain too much water. However, going in once or twice per week to feed a straight compost tea instead of synthetics makes sense. Kind of your weekly innoculant. That way you could mix and brew the compost tea separately and use it fresh, rather than blending it into your reservoir. Makes sense to me, good discussion!

exactly. adding the ewc tea once a week is all you need anyway. You may not even need to add weekly, considering the media. A fat bale of coco seems like a better place for them to stabilize, as opposed to running water (RDWC)

Donkdbz · Sep 3, 2011

Capulator said:
So you are recirculating the solution yes?

I agree about feeding bennies separate and not keeping them in the res.

Have you looked at hibrix for a sweetener as opposed to raw?

No I run drain to waste I just circulate the water through my res to keep it cool and the waterfall is all thats needed to keep my nutes fresh.

My ewc/hum tea is made with hibrix. Putiing hibrix in my res would destroy my chiller. I use denali gold humus supposedly has 40,000 species of bateria

Capulator · Sep 3, 2011

Capulator · Sep 3, 2011

Donkdbz said:
No I run drain to waste I just circulate the water through my res to keep it cool and the waterfall is all thats needed to keep my nutes fresh.

My ewc/hum tea is made with hibrix. Putiing hibrix in my res would destroy my chiller. I use denali gold humus supposedly has 40,000 species of bateria

So from the res, in to chiller, then back in to res via waterfall. Got it.

40,000 species of bacteria? The soil report from their website shows far less than that.

It does show some 30,000 fungi. But I do not believe these are all different species. Also, the numbers of ACTIVE fungi in the soil samples tested are far below the expectations of the test.

IMHO, they are innoculating their humus with some mycos, and that you are buying snake oil my friend. You could buy straight humic acid and add it to your ewc tea and skip the denali gold. Look at the reports on their site to see whats inside. Doesnt look like anything groundbreaking to me...

Donkdbz · Sep 3, 2011

I new it was a bunch of something. I met the owner he did not try to sell me anything or say his shit was better. Its just 5 bucks for a 4 quart bag. Thats what I like.

Back on topic. Most of my friends who run Ebb and Flow buckets with hydroton don't use chillers except during the summer. The only ones who got rot rot were the ones who did not innoculate the starters with some bene's.

Capulator · Sep 3, 2011

5 bucks. Cant beat it.

I just got some rot for the first time, with some plants that I did not use any benny tea on. A plant a day for about 4 days. Had to drop the water level and I think that I have it under control... Brewing some tea as we speak.

Fro those reading this who dont know:

EWC tea:

1) 5 gallon bucket
2) a couple handfuls of earth worm castings (EWC)
3) 50 ml or so carbo load or hi brix, raw... etc..
4) Scoop of ZHO
5) scoop of Great white.
6) 50 ML aquashield.

RO water.

Bubble for 48 hours with air stone. Separate with cheese cloth. Can refrigerate for up to 10 days.

Why is a chiller important?

Why is a chiller important?

Capulator

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Why is a chiller important?

Why is a chiller important?

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