Aqua Man said:

Never used peat other than to buffer pH naturally in aquariums. Assumed it's more of a soil. Either way I can't see it being a good medium but that's just my uneducated opinion. To acidic.

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Peat lite mix needs a buffer like lime or oyster shell. Balances perfectly.

MIMedGrower said:

Peat lite mix needs a buffer like lime or oyster shell. Balances perfectly.

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Considered soil or hydro cause I always looked at it as soil? I can see if it's amended or mixed but on its own... Not so good. Again. Never grown so not sure if it generally comes already amended.

Aqua Man said:

Considered soil or hydro cause I always looked at it as soil? I can see if it's amended or mixed but on its own... Not so good. Again. Never grown so not sure if it generally comes already amended.

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Peat lite mix is more like soil to grow in than hydro except we have to supply all the nutrients.

Coco seems more hydro like. Its inert. Peat has organic qualities.

MIMedGrower said:

Peat lite mix is more like soil to grow in than hydro except we have to supply all the nutrients.

Coco seems more hydro like. Its inert. Peat has organic qualities.

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And in terms of ph? I understood it as soil. I just want to make sure I'm not passing along bad info. Yeah coco I understand is basically hydro. I always thought peat was soil. Plants diagnosis is all the same but the difference in available nutrients is not.

Aqua Man said:

I can see if it's amended or mixed but on its own... Not so good.

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The other day you posted that you're planning to grow in soil(?). If so, you should do soilless once using Pro-Mix HP (peat with 35% perlite) and 25% more perlite added. Use GH Flora series 3-part. And, follow the so-called "useless" schedule (google for it, it's on the growkind forum. I followed it exactly. But, if I used it again, I'd reduce the strength 10%. I saw someone say they'd reduce it 20%.). I would add 1 to 1.5 Tablespoons dolomite lime per gallon of mix.

I think it's a great way to grow. It would be an intermediate step between your current hydro growing, and soil.

I think it's a great for first-time growers. Not that you're one. But, it could be useful to make that stop on your way to soil, so you could be familiar with it. There's no soil variables involved. No mystery of organic materials breaking down and feeding the plant. Much more immediate feedback. It's like hydro without the setup. It's hard to mess up if the new grower can just pay attention, mix the right amounts, know when the medium is dry. Every 2 days for that mix above.

Pro-Mix HP is neutralized already. If you bought an ordinary bale of peat at Home Depot, you'd probably have to do something with that before using it. I add dolomite to Pro-Mix because I've read that Pro-Mix doesn't have enough for the entire grow. Especially when feeding heavily, and the salts will drag the ph down too. It doesn't seem to hurt to add dolomite. It's not immediate acting like hydrated lime. It doesn't move the ph much. It's just there if needed. (Sometimes I wonder how much washes out. It's a loose texture medium. I'm sure some gets trapped. But, I bet some washes out too.).

MIMedGrower said:

Peat has organic qualities.

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In what way? It is organic matter (like coco). It's typically added to soil for it's ability to not compress, maintain some fluff. Water holding capacity. And, the carbon it provides as it breaks down. But, it's not considered organically active like soil. In fact, it's considered sterile (by comparison). It's often recommended for seedling beds for that reason, being less likely to carry pathogens (not a fertile host for such things, like soil is).

az2000 said:

The other day you posted that you're planning to grow in soil(?). If so, you should do soilless once using Pro-Mix HP (peat with 35% perlite) and 25% more perlite added. Use GH Flora series 3-part. And, follow the so-called "useless" schedule (google for it, it's on the growkind forum. I followed it exactly. But, if I used it again, I'd reduce the strength 10%. I saw someone say they'd reduce it 20%.). I would add 1 to 1.5 Tablespoons dolomite lime per gallon of mix.

I think it's a great way to grow. It would be an intermediate step between your current hydro growing, and soil.

I think it's a great for first-time growers. Not that you're one. But, it could be useful to make that stop on your way to soil, so you could be familiar with it. There's no soil variables involved. No mystery of organic materials breaking down and feeding the plant. Much more immediate feedback. It's like hydro without the setup. It's hard to mess up if the new grower can just pay attention, mix the right amounts, know when the medium is dry. Every 2 days for that mix above.

Pro-Mix HP is neutralized already. If you bought an ordinary bale of peat at Home Depot, you'd probably have to do something with that before using it. I add dolomite to Pro-Mix because I've read that Pro-Mix doesn't have enough for the entire grow. Especially when feeding heavily, and the salts will drag the ph down too. It doesn't seem to hurt to add dolomite. It's not immediate acting like hydrated lime. It doesn't move the ph much. It's just there if needed. (Sometimes I wonder how much washes out. It's a loose texture medium. I'm sure some gets trapped. But, I bet some washes out too.).

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I'm a head first guy. Still have a long time to go until soil Soni will definitely get my shit together on it. The whole reason I'm switching to soil is for a more organic approach. That being said I would not have an issue putting synthetic nutes in if needed. It will take a few grows to get it all tweaked to get it organic start to finish but Rather start closer to my goal

az2000 said:

In what way? It is organic matter (like coco). It's typically added to soil for it's ability to not compress, maintain some fluff. Water holding capacity. And, the carbon it provides as it breaks down. But, it's not considered organically active like soil. In fact, it's considered sterile (by comparison). It's often recommended for seedling beds for that reason, being less likely to carry pathogens (not a fertile host for such things, like soil is).

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it breaks down into carbon?

Aqua Man said:

it breaks down into carbon?

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The brown component of compost. Like leaves, peanut shells. No significant nutrient content (compared to bird poop or green grass cuttings). Just carbon as a component to the microbial action. (I.e., you wouldn't grow in leaves by themselves. Soil would be leaves and other things broken down.).

az2000 said:

The brown component of compost. Like leaves, peanut shells. No significant nutrient content (like bird poop or green grass cuttings). Just carbon as a component to the microbial action. (I.e., you wouldn't grow in leaves by themselves. Soil would be leaves and other things broken down.).

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Would still be considered organic. Maybe not a great source of nutrients but still would be. Also coco would not support microbial life as well as peat. So I think that's part what @MIMedGrower is saying? I can't speak to him but kinda what I get from it

Aqua Man said:

And in terms of ph? I understood it as soil. I just want to make sure I'm not passing along bad info. Yeah coco I understand is basically hydro. I always thought peat was soil. Plants diagnosis is all the same but the difference in available nutrients is not.

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Sorry i should have put that.

Potting soil with castings and nutrients. 6.5

Peat lite mix. 6.2 or 6.3. I forget exactly.

Coco is neutral but nutrient solution to 5.8


Thats how i learned it anyway. If im off someone please correct.

az2000 said:

In what way? It is organic matter (like coco). It's typically added to soil for it's ability to not compress, maintain some fluff. Water holding capacity. And, the carbon it provides as it breaks down. But, it's not considered organically active like soil. In fact, it's considered sterile (by comparison). It's often recommended for seedling beds for that reason, being less likely to carry pathogens (not a fertile host for such things, like soil is).

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Youre right it is mostly inert but it carries bacteria and fungus by itself in the right conditions.

I was more referring to watering habits in my comment.

And we need to specify soil vs peat or bark based mixes. Is it soil when castings are added? Nutrients?

Even ocean forest and the like are really just growing mediums with a starter charge and some organic ammendment.

Aqua Man said:

Would still be considered organic. Maybe not a great source of nutrients but still would be. Also coco would not support microbial life as well as peat. So I think that's part what @MIMedGrower is saying? I can't speak to him but kinda what I get from it

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We're probably very off topic. (The OP's probably left by now. Sorry!). But, coco is a "brown" source too. I think the only way peat could be considered more "organic" (in an "earthy" sense) is that it comes out of the ground. But, in use I don't believe there's much difference in terms of their contribution to being soil[1], or making it.

[1] "the upper layer of earth in which plants grow, a black or dark brown material typically consisting of a mixture of organic remains, clay, and rock particles."

Aqua Man said:

Would still be considered organic. Maybe not a great source of nutrients but still would be. Also coco would not support microbial life as well as peat. So I think that's part what @MIMedGrower is saying? I can't speak to him but kinda what I get from it

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Thats exactly what i was trying to say.

MIMedGrower said:

Even ocean forest and the like are really just growing mediums with a starter charge and some organic ammendment.

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I agree. I don't believe the lines are perfectly clear about what's soil. My soil is 56% Pro-Mix HP (peat and perlite), 22% soil potting mix, and 22% perlite. That's "mostly" soilless. And, yet, it's not "soilless." It contains soil. Composted materials (to varying degrees.).

Perhaps pouring the "trio" into soilless medium makes it a soil medium. But, I'm trying to say (without getting into all the details we have): if the goal is to make soilless medium soil, why not do that before planting? Have a medium that is immediately hospitable to the microbial action expected to occur with the nutrients used?

If there's a reason to not do that, why not use hydro nutrients and feed the roots directly (as soilless is typically done), and not depend on a microbial environment that doesn't exist?

I don't think that has to get into the nebulous world of how much soil is soil. No soil is clearly no soil.

az2000 said:

I agree. I don't believe the lines are perfectly clear about what's soil. My soil is 56% Pro-Mix HP (peat and perlite), 22% soil potting mix, and 22% perlite. That's "mostly" soilless. And, yet, it's not "soilless." It contains soil. Compoted materials (to varying degrees.).

Perhaps pouring the "trio" into soilless medium makes it a soil medium. But, I'm trying to say (without getting into all the details we have) is that, if the goal is to make soilless medium soil, why not do that before planting? Have a medium that is immediately hospitable to the microbial action expected to occur with the nutrients used?

If there's a reason to not do that, why not use hydro nutrients and feed the roots directly (as soilless is typically done), and not depend on a microbial envionment that doesn't exist?

I don't think that has to get into the nebulous world of how much soil is soil. No soil is clearly no soil.

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Yeah I kinda derailed this for my own info gain sorry OP. I always like to get the principals in depth to the point I can understand why and explain it. The way I see it if you have the answer and can't explain the why then you do not truely have the answer. Just the way my brain works.

peat can be considered soil,if you mix with soil,also if you mix with compost,it does break down to organic matter and when amend it is considered soil,im kinda blown away that the thought that you cant have active life with it,im talking ground and beds now,in pots in a tent you can still have life as long as you dont let it dry out,thats why i say never let it dry same with manure,once dry it dead for life,all kinds product to bring you to a no till soil also,just takes time to decompose if you dig,all my soil is made with peat base and leave matter from my yard,composted of course,after i amend and build it,it goes to the ground and then forked in making it soil,you've heard me mention texture testing this is were it comes in,add a bit of sand and clay peat as silt,this can be done in indoor pots as well just a bit harder to have those 3 things at smaller rates,when my garden get a ph in balance peat is the key to dropping ph ,does for me,indoor pots will need more air for sure from like of outdoor e,ement that make it thrive,bugs ,snakes ,frogs ,birds all are part of the soil web,it lacks that inside,so if you do the texture test and have your sand and silt even and then drop the clay to a 1/3rd of that put in wood chips perlite vermiculite rocks even mulch 1in or so deep in bottom of pots you have drainage,you can amend to the sky to make hot or just plan jane ,the soil is there you have to get it to a fine mix with the combination,hope you get what im saying,no science here guys just methods that have feed me for years,using clay in your soil indoors will just about stop any needs for cal mag,it there,a tad of potash will build stronger roots and take the need away for silica,some one said other day you cant treat weed as a house plant,i left it alone,but i would sure how that becomes,rather indoors or out a plant is a plant,i never let any get dry as mentioned,my mind and eyes see a ton of stress every time it happens,dont let it dry or dont keep it wet,keep it moist at around 45 to 55 % and you cannot go wrong,in pots the finger in knuckle deep doesnt mean it dry or wet,you cant judge it like that simply because the pot edge in containers will always pull away from sides most think there dry ,there not air and heat from light and sun draw it up,,and a half inch horizontal in there it is still moist,crazy thinking right,i watch my leaves before i feed ,nice chipper leaves swaying in the wind and heat,when that bitch starts to droop one slightest bit next day they will be full droop,soon as i get a hint of droop water,anyway made another 10 yrds soil today and hulled out rambling, this is only my opinion guys dont mean it right just the way i do things,microbe life can continue in peat and coco if mantained right and never dried out,do you all remember ecompost,that cat is a wizz the organic nute line he sells is just for that coco ,peat ,pro mix,soil and the gear works,just to make sense of this another buddy using 15 gal tote of pro mix and eco nutes he grows potted fruit trees ,just saying

have you guy's ever tried IMO'S ? this is what i mean with soil life if interested,you can put a collection in any medium,and have true life of all the surrounding area of you for mile,the imo will take control of your medium and blast off,there is more life in just 1 tsp than you could ever imagine,thats why i say peat pro-mix coco and all the soil mixs that have combinations for air i asume is why it done,like mentioned above bag soil is a starting point ,it up to you to follow up and getrdone if you dig,my only problem with IMO"S is i live on a rock all properties around for miles are owned,so finding a great source is about nill and none,i decided to do one with any shroom and compost pile to collect but havent done it yet,but ya any thing can live as long as you feed it,mollases is the great choice of growers ,a lot of product on the market today is the idea from it,but as a stand alone feed nope,to ferment you have to use it or brown sugar to feed the microbes and bacteria,but once it goes in the soil no longer a feed organic matter is if you dig and thats what it then feeds on