Zoning Laws

RMCG · Oct 8, 2010

Hoping someone can answer a few questions regarding zoning laws post-1284.

With potential municipal regulations coming down all over CO, esp. in regards to caregiving in a residential area, the thought of commercial space is far more appealing.

BUT, what zoning laws really apply to NON-MMC/OPCL grows?

Which counties are ok? Which are a bust?

I understand that the location should still be away from schools, day cares, D&A treatment centers, etc. but towns/counties that have enacted zoning regulations specifically to keep 'cannabusiness' and dispensaries out, does that apply here? Do they have the ability to limit a private caregiver doing something in a commercial space?

For instance, this is from Arapahoe County's 'Moratorium' doc:

The extension of the temporary moratorium shall not apply to the non-commercial use, cultivation or dispensing for use, of medical marijuana, by an individual person with a registry identification card or his or her individual primary care-giver, to the extent that such activities are specifically described as exceptions to the state criminal law by the Colorado Constitution Article 18, Section 14.

altitudefarmer · Oct 8, 2010

IMHO, that seems like what they want. I do believe they want all grows out of residential areas, just due to the incompetence of DIY electricians. It may be weird to get utilities turned on; in the Springs, they require the federal tax number of your business just to put utilities in your name. Building code applies to any business, any building, period, although sometimes the Building dept will "grandfather" existing conditions. The requirements differ from residential and commercial, but wherever you are, if you're on paper with the state, you ought to comply with codes. To be approved in El Paso County, you'll have to have the electric up to code (along with everything else), probably have to submit architectural drawings ($$), and jump through any other hoops the regional building department can think of. My buddy is an architect who specializes in mechanical drawings, and he's done over a dozen drawings for warehouse grows since 1284. Most of these were dispensaries scrambling to stay legal, and they have had a HELL of a time getting approval from the RBD...

RMCG · Oct 8, 2010

I absolutely agree they are pushing people out of residential neighborhoods.

The FoCo 'ban/limit' to two patients/12 plants specifically states 'residential' zones.

Was hoping to have a sparky do a walkthrough with me to check on 'code' violations with the electrical, etc.

But, localities that are trying to keep dispensaries out with Zoning. Does that apply to non-commercial entities? I edited my original post to include verbiage from Arapahoe County's moratorium, which specifically states it does NOT apply to private/non-commercial enterprises.

sky high · Oct 8, 2010

1284 definitely seperates and defines the difference between caregiver (private) and dispensary (commercial) and sets that 5 patient limit in stone. These ordinances are illegal...plain and simple....and WHAT can they do to you when state law and the CONSTITUTION say you cannot be prosecuted for any crime as long as you are in compliance with Article 14??

Don't give in to this shit, folks. Retain an attorney....grow yer limit....have yer paperwork in order...and fuck them clowns @ City Hall. 1284 gives them the right to control COMMERCIAL but NOTHING ANYWHERE gives them the right to stomp on the colorado Constitution and your specific/unalienable rights under it.

If your home was built to code and you are using all UL listed equipment I don't think they have a right to check/inspect shit. They don't come in and check your fridge, stove, or any other UL listed device in your home...do they?

A WARRANT is the only way they can truly come in....and no judge who wants to stay seated willl issue one cus some dickbreath lackey at the City/County >suspects< you may have 3 things plugged into one wall socket....

Get Up, Stand Up...

canaguy27 · Oct 8, 2010

I agree with sh. You would be ok in a commercial space as long as you had the patients to back it up legally. You could play it safe with having things up to code. The ul thing is driving mmcs nuts, but I am selling a ton of Quantum ballast, so i can't complain. I don't think you have to take it that far with the ul bs.

You find that 13 dawns pheno yet? I have a room itching to get it in there. Getting ready to start some pez in there now.

RMCG · Oct 8, 2010

canaguy27 said:
I agree with sh. You would be ok in a commercial space as long as you had the patients to back it up legally. You could play it safe with having things up to code. The ul thing is driving mmcs nuts, but I am selling a ton of Quantum ballast, so i can't complain. I don't think you have to take it that far with the ul bs.

You find that 13 dawns pheno yet? I have a room itching to get it in there. Getting ready to start some pez in there now.

I am planning on utilizing large tents to minimize permit pulling, etc.

Are they going to bark about bare bulb vert?

13 Dawgz are in a holding pattern (veg) due to some space/count issues. You are first on my list!

canaguy27 · Oct 8, 2010

i dont know about the bare bulb issue. I should have posted a picture of my neck. I stood up right into a 1000w hps. It has finally healed, about as bad and a bad sunburn. I now have mini cages around them.

RMCG · Oct 8, 2010

canaguy27 said:
i dont know about the bare bulb issue. I should have posted a picture of my neck. I stood up right into a 1000w hps. It has finally healed, about as bad and a bad sunburn. I now have mini cages around them.

OUCH.

Yeah, Was planning on cages, but wasn't sure if code allowed an open/non-reflectored bulb.

I guess that it shouldn't be an issue as plenty of regular warehouses have hi-dome open reflectors.

Mr.Sputnik · Oct 8, 2010

I installed a new electrical service myself. The house originally had a 50A service, I upgraded to a 200A. All I had to do was pull a homeowner affidavit and have the county inspector come out to check my wiring job and make sure everything was up to code. It was a $45 permit fee. You have to own the property to pull a homeowner permit, otherwise you'll need to hire an electrician for $250 an hr. It was relatively painless, if you screw something up the inspector tells you what to fix and how to do it the right way. He comes back a second time and you should pass if you did everything he told you to do the first time. This was residential, I dunno if it's the same for commercial.

I got sunburnt from using a UV light to kill off some powdery mildew. Only used it for about 20min. I had a nice goggle tan from the eyeware.

RMCG · Oct 8, 2010

So is Adams Co a no-no?

Further from the renegade crew (North Metro DTF) the better I would assume.

GreenThumbBill · Oct 8, 2010

RMCG said:
So is Adams Co a no-no?

Further from the renegade crew (North Metro DTF) the better I would assume.

Adams county is a big no no. That's where the NMDTF is headquartered. I don't even like driving through that area.

BoCo Buds · Oct 9, 2010

RMCG said:
the thought of commercial space is far more appealing.

BUT, what zoning laws really apply to NON-MMC/OPCL grows?

Which counties are ok? Which are a bust?

Do they have the ability to limit a private caregiver doing something in a commercial space?

Pretty sure that once you go into a commercial space, you will be required to have all of your permits submitted & approved. And inspectors (city) can request to come in as they find necessary... walking by & becoming curious would qualify. If you aren't to code, with proper permits pulled, they will shut you down, potentially pull & rebuild & permit and/or fine you. Fire inspectors will come by once per year as well, or so they are allowed. You open yourself up.

Good chance that no one would come by, but not likely in this industry... they just kinda know where & when people set-up... over time esp.

You will also need to consider occupancy use & the implications to which set of codes to use... good luck here... over code... lol

Also, they will likely be changing & require adjustments/new permits in the future.

You will need to secure a commercial lease contract, likely with real shitty terms just because you are growing... shit you wouldn't ever see in any other contract, and at an overly inflated price. Maybe not, but maybe so.

You will have insurance too.

I dunno, going old school sounds pretty damn good right about now...??? ;-)

sky high · Oct 9, 2010

I kinda thought this approach might be utilized. Toss the cards, and keep all yer non-growing patients and more and "share costs" of the grow.... all under one roof. Yer still the grower/caregiver calling the shots, it just isn't on paper. Give all the folks involved some FREE meds for playin' along and just knock the fuck out of it. No stacking of cards. No 2 "caregivers" sharing a space. No limit as to how many folks can "share" the garden space but the size of the garden itself!

The warehouse approach would be choice. Dunno though...kinda seems like you might draw a bit of heat/interest from the sheer fact that there has to be some cash being generated >somewhere< to fund yer big building and the rent/utilities/heat/maintenance/SECURITY/upfront work that >usually< must take place before you can set up shop.

Pretty exciting stuff tho. It's definitely time for the PATIENTS to make a move and grab a spot in all of this somewhere OTHER than behind the 8-ball as they are now.

s h

RMCG · Oct 9, 2010

BoCo Buds said:
Pretty sure that once you go into a commercial space, you will be required to have all of your permits submitted & approved. And inspectors (city) can request to come in as they find necessary... walking by & becoming curious would qualify. If you aren't to code, with proper permits pulled, they will shut you down, potentially pull & rebuild & permit and/or fine you. Fire inspectors will come by once per year as well, or so they are allowed. You open yourself up.

All electrical work will be done by licensed electricians and proper permits pulled, inspected, etc.

No walls will be built. Planning on utilizing large tents.
Expensive? yes Less hassle? Definitely.

BoCo Buds said:
Good chance that no one would come by, but not likely in this industry... they just kinda know where & when people set-up... over time esp.

I would be prepared for a visit and be running the max. allowed by the state.

BoCo Buds said:
You will also need to consider occupancy use & the implications to which set of codes to use... good luck here... over code... lol

Yeah, this is where I am looking for some input as well.
Any one that has done this for an MMC want to 'consult' over some beers for some $$?

UL-listed equipment is out there, just need to know the things to look out for.

BoCo Buds said:
Also, they will likely be changing & require adjustments/new permits in the future.

Can't predict the future, just roll with the changes.

BoCo Buds said:
You will need to secure a commercial lease contract, likely with real shitty terms just because you are growing... shit you wouldn't ever see in any other contract, and at an overly inflated price. Maybe not, but maybe so.

Leases aren't any worse than they were before and with the number of denials, there are actually spaces that have had work done, prepped, etc. and they are looking to get out of them.

There are houses around to that are amenable to it, but then you have a whole other set of issues that go with that, esp if you aren't living in it.

BoCo Buds said:
You will have insurance too.

Yeah, in the budget. Not sure how to broach that subject with an agent though.

BoCo Buds said:
I dunno, going old school sounds pretty damn good right about now...??? ;-)

It does indeed. SOG'ing on 6 4x8s in a basement somewhere would be 'easier', but if I were going to do that, it would be a non-med state and I am NOT leaving CO.

RMCG · Oct 9, 2010

sky high said:
I kinda thought this approach might be utilized. Toss the cards, and keep all yer non-growing patients and more and "share costs" of the grow.... all under one roof. Yer still the grower/caregiver calling the shots, it just isn't on paper. Give all the folks involved some FREE meds for playin' along and just knock the fuck out of it. No stacking of cards. No 2 "caregivers" sharing a space. No limit as to how many folks can "share" the garden space but the size of the garden itself!

The warehouse approach would be choice. Dunno though...kinda seems like you might draw a bit of heat/interest from the sheer fact that there has to be some cash being generated >somewhere< to fund yer big building and the rent/utilities/heat/maintenance/SECURITY/upfront work that >usually< must take place before you can set up shop.

Pretty exciting stuff tho. It's definitely time for the PATIENTS to make a move and grab a spot in all of this somewhere OTHER than behind the 8-ball as they are now.

s h

I actually really like that idea. Sort of a 'co-op' of sorts. Every patient responsible for their own, yet all in the same space. It does not violate the verbiage of Am.20 or 1284 either.

sky high · Oct 9, 2010

I personally think it'd be a nightmare to have everyone doin their own thing/responsible for their own grow/etc. Dunno what the legal implications are of taking pics and shit with folks in em in a med situation, but my first thought would be to have everyone show up early on before the grow REALLY gets going and stage some photos of each patient tending "their" garden/etc. From there ONE person takes it all over, grows the shit out of the place, and in the end the patients get their meds and the grower ends up with the spoils....just like it's always been. Having proof that all of these folks have been onsite/are 'active" in the operation of "their" garden and having all their paperwork onsite/in order...and NOT growing under any edible variances....I mean/ WTF can they do?? To me (not an attorney) it's like EVERY OTHER FACET of this A20/1284 loophole game isn't it? They didn't address patients sharing space/etc. >specifically< so it's wide open.... or so it seems. (can you say "dispensary"?)

gonna be interesting to see how this all goes down....

s h

haole · Oct 9, 2010

So what are the repercussions of a zoning violation? Say for instance a caregiver for 5 people had 28 plants in Denver city limits? I thought that zoning violations typically resulted in fines and cease and desist orders... not arrest. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

RMCG · Oct 9, 2010

Not 100% sure what the repercussions will be IF the new 'residential' ban goes in to effect. Similar to FoCo with the 2 patient max/cap.

Maybe similar to BC where a cop, city inspector and an Excel guy shows up and cuts off your power, fines for hokey wiring, fire violations, condemns the house, etc.

Cease and Desist on Day 40 would sort of suck.

What kind of walk-through would a person get if they rented a garage space to work on their cars (non-commercially), build a motorcycle or for their band to practice?

canaguy27 · Oct 9, 2010

RMCG said:
UL-listed equipment is out there, just need to know the things to look out for.

quantum ballasts are ul approved along with some green air products stuff, vortex fans and filters, and danner pumps. i can get em cheap from my wholesaler. let me know if you want some.

hydrofarm has sockets that are ul approved, but i can't get those.

Dorje · Oct 9, 2010

All the Hydrofarm ballasts are now UL, before that Quantum was the only one. I believe City of Boulder is accepting ETL, so that opens up all the Sun System ballasts too.

The inspector came by today and checked out our xxxl hoods for the ETL sticker. We are using cheap Hydrofarm ballasts, 1/2 the cost of Quantum for MH/HPS switchable ballasts...

Anyway, I'm not convinced the e-ballasts are the way to go, the light looks yellow compared to magnetic ballasts running Eye HPS bulbs... We'll get a Quantum and compare side-by-side.... see if there's really any advantage before dropping the big bucks...

Zoning Laws

Zoning Laws

RMCG

altitudefarmer

RMCG

sky high

canaguy27

RMCG

canaguy27

RMCG

Mr.Sputnik

RMCG

GreenThumbBill

BoCo Buds

sky high

RMCG

RMCG

sky high

haole

RMCG

canaguy27

Dorje

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