Cannabis Acetate

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Graywolf

Graywolf

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Cannabis acetate is a cannabis medication that we have been experimenting with, because it passes the blood brain barrier so much faster than the cannabis oil it was made from. The effect is an abrupt arrival of effects, vis a vis coming on.

Aspirin and heroin are both examples of a medication whose effectiveness was significantly improved by converting into an acetate. The process that we developed, is in fact based on aspirin production.

I became interested in cannabis acetate after reading Cannabis Alchemy, by Gold, who proffered 3X potency, but after experimenting with it, have decided that it isn't necessarily more potent, but certainly appears that way with its sudden onslaught.

As fate would have it, at about that same time, our resident biochemistry student was learning to make aspirin in class, so I asked him to look at the process and make recommendations. What he discovered, is that the formula Gold proffers, was probably based on heroin production, given the mole ratios he used, and certainly called for safety measures not currently taught in current chemistry curriculums.

The process uses acetic anhydride, which is vinegar with no water in it, and is both highly corrosive as a acid and about as inflammable as hexane or gasoline. It does require good laboratory practices, as is commonly used with concentrated acids and flammable liquids.

Good lab practices are beyond the scope of this post, so may I disclaim by observing that if you haven't had chemistry lab training, you should do so before attempting this procedure.

Acetic anhydride can also be used to make explosives, as well as heroin, so expect to end up on a watch list if you purchase any. It hasn't been a problem for us to obtain in limited quantities from the local scientific supply store as a registered medical research business, and being on the DEA and ATF watch list isn't of concern, but consider that when you purchase any.

Now that we have had an opportunity to make cannabis acetate enough times to get the same thing each time, I thought I'll share our process with ya'll. Probably not refined as far as it can be, but works every time.

Our last production, we started by dissolving 10.4 grams of BHO into 16.5 grams of hexane, to remove it from the storage container with an unknown tare, so as to not waste any left behind in films and to get an accurate weight. We warmed the mixture in a hot water bath to increase dissolution rate.

When dissolved, we decanted into a beaker with a known tare and weighed the total amount, from which we subtracted the beaker tare and the weight of the hexane to get the BHO weight of 10.4 grams.

We then poured that into a one liter boiling flask. To that we added 25 ml of acetic anhydride and 1.25 ml of 98% sulfuric acid.

We placed the boiling flask on a combination hot plate stirrer, and added a stirring bar to the mixture.

We added an Alhin condenser to the flask, through which we pumped ice water, and reflux boiled the mixture for one hour while stirring.

After refluxing for one hour, we added 40 ml of water to react the remaining acetic anhydride, and another 40 ml of hexane. We poured that into a separatory funnel, which we finished filling with saturated salt water.

After shaking well, we allowed the layers to separate and bled off the lower water emulsion layer, only to refill with salt water again and repeat the procedure until we had run about 4 liters of salt water through the mixture.

After bleeding off the salt water one last time, we bled the hexane mixture into a beaker and after filtering through a 0.2 micron syringe filter, we boiled off the hexane using the hot plate stirrer, with the beaker sitting in a larger beaker half full of water.

Just before the hexane was gone, I refilled the beaker to the half way mark with 190 proof ethanol and boiled that off. I repeated the alcohol wash three times to insure the removal of the rest of the hexane.

Human hexane odor sensory threshold is 130 ppm and taste as low as 30 ppm, with an LD-50 (rat) of 48,000 ppm vapor, or 2500 mg/kg oral, so you will taste or smell any residual hexane, well before it becomes a health issue.

Hexane tastes and smell like gasoline. If you still taste hexane, redissolve in ethanol and distill or boil it off again.

The resulting acetate is of a lighter color than the original oil and of lower viscosity.

It received high marks by the volunteer patient test panel for both the pain relief that we were testing for, and head effect. Because of its sudden arrival, the most common comment was actually, "Oh wow".

The flavor is best described as burning photograph records, but is still pleasant and it is extremely smooth to vaporize as compared to raw BHO oleoresin extracts or even absolutes.

Besides vaporizing, it the best thing I've found for E-Cigs and works impressively in topical or oral meds as well.
 
Acetic anhydride
Cannabis acetate equipment
Adding salt water 1
Washing with saline solution
Separatory funnel
Filtration
Final product
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Just to reiterate. If you don't have proper licensing and you don't want to have a meeting with the DEA, do not even attempt to purchase acetic anhydride.

This is a chemical which appears high on the top 10 of suspicious chemicals for the DEA, and selling it ANYWHERE in the US requires documentation be sent to the DEA regarding the sale.

This is literally, in the DEA's eyes, a dead giveaway that you intend to produce drugs--usually heroin.


I was sorta hoping you knew something I didn't here Gray--I've been looking for a safe method of obtaining acetic anhydride (through synthesis) and there doesn't seem to be one--they all are very dangerous and use chemicals which should never be mixed with food grade products.

One possible route, for instance, produces phosgene gas. As Gray said, this is very unsafe stuff to be handling improperly. As you graduate up the chemical reagent ladder it becomes much more important what solvent you're using, chemicals you're adding.

Chloroform is indicated for extractions of marijuana--say that someone tried to the acid reflux method for producing the delta-9 variant of THC. Say they decided to use Nitric Acid (which is strong and would likely work for the reaction albeit at reduced efficiency)--Well, that would probably kill them, but it'd be odorless and they wouldn't even know they were dead till a week later when pulmonary edema started to develop.


All that said, I really wish I could have some of the acetate ester--but it's not currently in the cards.
 
Graywolf

Graywolf

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I was sorta hoping you knew something I didn't here Gray--I've been looking for a safe method of obtaining acetic anhydride (through synthesis) and there doesn't seem to be one--they all are very dangerous and use chemicals which should never be mixed with food grade products.

We also looked at acetic anhydride synthesis and decided against it for producing medical products.

In keeping with Occam's razor, the simplest method is just to purchase it from a scientific supply, unless you are intending to use it for illegitimate purposes, that won't stand up to DEA and ATF scrutiny. Just be advised that you will be scrutinized, even if your use is legal and legitimate.
 
CanadaDank

CanadaDank

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Cannabis acetate is a cannabis medication that we have been experimenting with, because it passes the blood brain barrier so much faster than the cannabis oil it was made from. The effect is an abrupt arrival of effects, vis a vis coming on.

Aspirin and heroin are both examples of a medication whose effectiveness was significantly improved by converting into an acetate. The process that we developed, is in fact based on aspirin production.

I became interested in cannabis acetate after reading Cannabis Alchemy, by Gold, who proffered 3X potency, but after experimenting with it, have decided that it isn't necessarily more potent, but certainly appears that way with its sudden onslaught.

As fate would have it, at about that same time, our resident biochemistry student was learning to make aspirin in class, so I asked him to look at the process and make recommendations. What he discovered, is that the formula Gold proffers, was probably based on heroin production, given the mole ratios he used, and certainly called for safety measures not currently taught in current chemistry curriculums.

The process uses acetic anhydride, which is vinegar with no water in it, and is both highly corrosive as a acid and about as inflammable as hexane or gasoline. It does require good laboratory practices, as is commonly used with concentrated acids and flammable liquids.

Good lab practices are beyond the scope of this post, so may I disclaim by observing that if you haven't had chemistry lab training, you should do so before attempting this procedure.

Acetic anhydride can also be used to make explosives, as well as heroin, so expect to end up on a watch list if you purchase any. It hasn't been a problem for us to obtain in limited quantities from the local scientific supply store as a registered medical research business, and being on the DEA and ATF watch list isn't of concern, but consider that when you purchase any.

Now that we have had an opportunity to make cannabis acetate enough times to get the same thing each time, I thought I'll share our process with ya'll. Probably not refined as far as it can be, but works every time.

Our last production, we started by dissolving 10.4 grams of BHO into 16.5 grams of hexane, to remove it from the storage container with an unknown tare, so as to not waste any left behind in films and to get an accurate weight. We warmed the mixture in a hot water bath to increase dissolution rate.

When dissolved, we decanted into a beaker with a known tare and weighed the total amount, from which we subtracted the beaker tare and the weight of the hexane to get the BHO weight of 10.4 grams.

We then poured that into a one liter boiling flask. To that we added 25 ml of acetic anhydride and 1.25 ml of 98% sulfuric acid.

We placed the boiling flask on a combination hot plate stirrer, and added a stirring bar to the mixture.

We added an Alhin condenser to the flask, through which we pumped ice water, and reflux boiled the mixture for one hour while stirring.

After refluxing for one hour, we added 40 ml of water to react the remaining acetic anhydride, and another 40 ml of hexane. We poured that into a separatory funnel, which we finished filling with saturated salt water.

After shaking well, we allowed the layers to separate and bled off the lower water emulsion layer, only to refill with salt water again and repeat the procedure until we had run about 4 liters of salt water through the mixture.

After bleeding off the salt water one last time, we bled the hexane mixture into a beaker and after filtering through a 0.2 micron syringe filter, we boiled off the hexane using the hot plate stirrer, with the beaker sitting in a larger beaker half full of water.

Just before the hexane was gone, I refilled the beaker to the half way mark with 190 proof ethanol and boiled that off. I repeated the alcohol wash three times to insure the removal of the rest of the hexane.

Human hexane odor sensory threshold is 130 ppm and taste as low as 30 ppm, with an LD-50 (rat) of 48,000 ppm vapor, or 2500 mg/kg oral, so you will taste or smell any residual hexane, well before it becomes a health issue.

Hexane tastes and smell like gasoline. If you still taste hexane, redissolve in ethanol and distill or boil it off again.

The resulting acetate is of a lighter color than the original oil and of lower viscosity.

It received high marks by the volunteer patient test panel for both the pain relief that we were testing for, and head effect. Because of its sudden arrival, the most common comment was actually, "Oh wow".

The flavor is best described as burning photograph records, but is still pleasant and it is extremely smooth to vaporize as compared to raw BHO oleoresin extracts or even absolutes.

Besides vaporizing, it the best thing I've found for E-Cigs and works impressively in topical or oral meds as well.
Ok, this the answer I was looking for in the other thread. I have a question though. Can you use sulfuric acid as a substitute to acetic anhydride?
 
Ever after

Ever after

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NO there is no replacement theres only a way to dehydrate a certain liquid maybe white vinigar to make your acetic acid or what ever the hell it is
 
Graywolf

Graywolf

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263
Ok, this the answer I was looking for in the other thread. I have a question though. Can you use sulfuric acid as a substitute to acetic anhydride?

No! It takes acetic acid to make an acetate. Acetic anyhdride is vinegar with no water in it.
 
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squiggly

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There are definitely no known safe methods for producing acetic annhydride which would be reasonable for use with products intended for ingestion. There is no substitute for acetic annhydride in this reaction--it is a required reagent.

Sulfuric acid *can*, however, be used to isomerize THC under certain conditions (though this will likely destroy/alter many terpenes and other wanted chemicals in the process).
 
Graywolf

Graywolf

1,597
263
There are definitely no known safe methods for producing acetic annhydride which would be reasonable for use with products intended for ingestion. There is no substitute for acetic annhydride in this reaction--it is a required reagent.

Sulfuric acid *can*, however, be used to isomerize THC under certain conditions (though this will likely destroy/alter many terpenes and other wanted chemicals in the process).

Yeah, we used sulfuric to isomerize some oil, so as to convert the CBDs to THC, and it works well, but it is mostly hashy in flavor and straight THC didn't do much for me or any of the rest of the testers, so we haven't repeated it.

Decarbed oil on the right, with the same isomerized oil on the left.
 
Isomerized and decarboxylated samples
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That the color becomes a deeper red is not surprising. If you remember the thread way back where we discussed this with jump--I ultimately ended up finding a few various spectral results which suggested that THC in its pure form will appear red.
 
CanadaDank

CanadaDank

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No! It takes acetic acid to make an acetate. Acetic anyhdride is vinegar with no water in it.
So when people talk about having smoked Cherry Oil.. is that what it is?
Also, is it possible to make Acetic Anhydride by boiling down plain white vinegar for a long ass time?
 
Graywolf

Graywolf

1,597
263
That the color becomes a deeper red is not surprising. If you remember the thread way back where we discussed this with jump--I ultimately ended up finding a few various spectral results which suggested that THC in its pure form will appear red.

The Forteenth Edition Merck Index lists THC as a "light yellow resinous oil", so the red color may be more a function of what the same processing does to the anthocyanins present. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthocyanin
 
deep buddy

deep buddy

715
93
ahh acetetic anhydride!
sometimes you just gotta take the risk squiqqs, ohhh what i could do with a few litres:)
 
SCFSYNDICATE760

SCFSYNDICATE760

258
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So when people talk about having smoked Cherry Oil.. is that what it is?
Also, is it possible to make Acetic Anhydride by boiling down plain white vinegar for a long ass time?
pretty sure thats a negatory...i jean the boiling down vinegar ...good thought tho.! =)
sciencelab.com ...mmm
swim may have ordered acetic off there... i heard when they asked him for an loi, he googled it and wrote one really quick, worked like a charm...no issues..special delivery..chloro n ace...
granted if u try n order a flat of ace they will prob trip hard...but ordering a few mls or few hundred mls, im pretty sure they know you cant make keys of dope with that lil ass bottle...
no doubt they still look at the loi's im sure...prob dont do much more than that unless its over a certain amount...i mean esp if ur loi on file looks tits,,,
again, could be way off base, just what i would assume..
but yea..no issues w that co..
next is ether...=)
still trying to find an actual legit account of chlor extraction...
anyone??

@ gw
sooo if one had all nec equipment n ingredients, is this something i am gonna be able to do, with a decent iq and no real scientific training? lol

also few ?s on the acetate...
have u made it from flowers, and how much better do u think it would be
also do u really gain weight when u do the acetate...? i think ive read that a few places...
so potentially if u tested the acetate it would come back really close to 100%?? or....
just curious what affect this actually has on product...ive made stuff at over 80, but that same stuff, if u took it n did the acetate process on it, would it go up to like 100 or close? or just be a different product but still about as potent?
ill tAKE my answers off the air!
thnx
 
Graywolf

Graywolf

1,597
263
@ gw
sooo if one had all nec equipment n ingredients, is this something i am gonna be able to do, with a decent iq and no real scientific training? lol

also few ?s on the acetate...
have u made it from flowers, and how much better do u think it would be
also do u really gain weight when u do the acetate...? i think ive read that a few places...
so potentially if u tested the acetate it would come back really close to 100%?? or....
just curious what affect this actually has on product...ive made stuff at over 80, but that same stuff, if u took it n did the acetate process on it, would it go up to like 100 or close? or just be a different product but still about as potent?
ill tAKE my answers off the air!
thnx


The process is simple, you just have to pay attention to details to win.

If everything goes right, all the acetic anhydride will remain inside the boiling flask and Alhin refluxing condenser, and you at best may smell a whiff of vinegar, but out in the open, it is both as flammable as hexane and a strong oxidizer.

Best to assume worst case however, because shit happens, so do it outside or with proper lab ventilation systems inside. Also wear chemical goggles and faceplate, in addition to a respirator, gloves, and chemical apron while transferring it from the storage container.

The acetate is also an absolute, so there should be very little else but THC there, if you didn't cook any into CBN.

It doesn't appear to me to be much, if any more potent, but it does arrive all at once, instead of coming on, so it sure seems more potent.
 
SCFSYNDICATE760

SCFSYNDICATE760

258
43
hmmmm thnx..the homie zoer said u were the authority on el acetate-o
no 411 on chlor ex?
 
squiggly

squiggly

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The Forteenth Edition Merck Index lists THC as a "light yellow resinous oil", so the red color may be more a function of what the same processing does to the anthocyanins present. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthocyanin

Went through this in great detail in the previous post I mentioned (between yourself, me, and Jump). I found several independent sources which describe purified (by chromatography) as a deep red oil--this is further backed up by the wavelengths of greatest absorption which are found in THC which are firmly in the green section of the color wheel (corresponding to a "reflected" color of red).

All of the spectrophotometric data I found showed peak absorption in the green wavelengths. We all know the oil upon first extraction is a light yellow resinous oil. When mixing oils like this--the resulting color is not always a function of the color of the individual oils--as these substances (with many double bonds) can conjugate differently when they are in a mixture. This is even more expected when you're dealing with light-active compounds (which THC and most terpenes are).

I believe this is a case of the right hand not always knowing what the left hand is doing as it relates to the science community--this is very common in MJ chemistry, and happens to be one of the main reasons why I've taken up an interest in this field. I find it absolutely deplorable the lack of direction and focus the scientific community has put forth here. The government has scared them all away, it's devious at best--and totally unethical and reprehensible at worst (and in my opinion).

Plainly put, this would normally be one of the first things you'd figure out about a compound--and much of the literature doesn't agree. I focused on papers from the analytical field to get what I felt would be the best answer for this question,these guys tend to have a higher degree of attention to details like this, where a synthetic chemist (which comprise many if not most of the papers on this subject from the chemistry community--excluding biochemistry which is often considered a separate field) may blow over small details like this one. They tend to be more consumed by elucidation of structural nuances and the like.

Look up spectrophotometric data for the stuff and you'll find it agrees with what I've said--the stuff absorbs very strongly in the green wavelengths.
 
Graywolf

Graywolf

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263
Went through this in great detail in the previous post I mentioned (between yourself, me, and Jump). I found several independent sources which describe purified (by chromatography) as a deep red oil--this is further backed up by the wavelengths of greatest absorption which are found in THC which are firmly in the green section of the color wheel (corresponding to a "reflected" color of red).

.

Sorry I missed that detail brother SQ! Could you direct me to that post?

What part do you think anthocyanins play in the color schemes?
 
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Sorry I missed that detail brother SQ! Could you direct me to that post?

What part do you think anthocyanins play in the color schemes?

I'm really not sure where the post has gotten off to.

As for the anthocyanins, I imagine they play a larger role in an iso/ethanol extraction due to polarity considerations. You're still going to get some of them with a non polar extraction (because of the large ring structures)--but the equilibrium of this extraction is going to depend greatly on the specific anthocyanins at play. These will have very different properties and polarities according to their R groups.

A possible route for removal of these might be either treatment with a strong acid (should destroy many of these), or acidification to a given pH followed by chromatography following a pH as well as a solvent gradient.

A second possibility would be to basify these (strong base) to solubilize them in water preferentially (by creating ions), and then do a liquid-liquid extraction on them. Although I'm unsure what the effects of a strong base might be on our actives--it's possible this might destroy them.

Beyond all of that--these things have crazy amounts of double bonds. That double bonds and their conjugation can play a major role in pigmentation should be more apparent when studying these compounds. Because of conjugation in a ring, when you change one substituent in the ring--you change the electronic properties (energy levels of electrons, etc) throughout the entire ring, usually in a 1:1 shared fashion (if the conjugation is complete).

When double bonds sit close to one another, they are able to share electrons throughout both bonds as if they were one bond (or identical bonds perhaps more correctly). This is never more clear than in benzene. It is for this reason that the conjugated double bonds of benzene can either be drawn as 3 seperate double bonds (which can interconvert)--or as a ring with a circle in the middle (depicting this idea that all of the bonds are equal).

It just also so happens that electrons held in these conjugations have a higher propensity for being active to light found in the visible spectrum (this has mostly to do with energy levels in electron shells, and conjugation between those shells).
 
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