Clackamascoots Soil Mix From Rare Earth In Grass Valley

[Bulldog11]

I will post up the price list I came up with. I priced most of the material off Build-a-soil, so I am sure some prices can be beat. All prices were taken off the largest product size for cheapest sourcing. For example, the kelp came in 1, 5, 10, 15, 50 lb bags. I went off the 50lb bag for cheapest results.

Build a soil mix


1 part worm power 300-500$ a yard Lets say 500 on the high side

1 part sphagnum Peat Moss ($85-$112 a yard) Lets say 100 for easy math

2/3 part pumice (about $55 a yard)

1/3 part rice hulls (about $55 a yard)

$216.50 per yard for base

Nutrients included in the soil:


Acadian Kelp Meal @ ½ cup per cubic foot ($18.27 a yard)

Neem Cake and Karanja Cake 50/50 mix @ ½ cup per cubic foot ($17.50 a yard)

Crustacean Meal @ ½ cup per cubic foot ($13.50 a yard)

Gypsum Dust @ 1 cup per cubic foot ($14.71 a yard)

Brix Blend Basalt @ 1 cup per cubic foot ($24.87 a yard)

Glacial Rock Dust @ 1 cup per cubic foot ($15.23 a yard)

Oyster Flour @ 1 cup per cubic foot ($22.50 a yard)


$126.58 for the additives per yard

216.50 + 126.58 = $343.08 per yard

 

[Joe Fresh]

slightly cheaper, but still expensive....im sure some of those you can source cheaper to get your prices down even further...the good thing though is you plan yo reuse the soil, meaning over time you will just have to add more amendments to keep it top up to shape....and by sending in soil samples each year, you will know how much of what to add...keep in mind, the soil biology in a mix like this is the most important thing, its what makes the mix work....so dont forget to add lots of teas, which im sure you do

 

[Power OG]

To do a yard, 27 cubic feet, is 120$ on Buildasoil but to do 1cubic ft they charge 15$ does that help guys.

 

[Bulldog11]

So that is the cost minus the EWC, compost, pumice, rice hulls and peat?

Your instructions say mix 165 cups per yard of soil.......What kind of soil? What if the soil is already nutrient rich? Does this assume you will make your own "coots base mix" which is the items I listed above? If so, how much did the coots base mix cost you?

If I understand you correctly, then I added up the cost almost exactly correct. I said 127$ a yard for amendments delivered to California.

 

[Tnelz]

@Tnelz You have any input on the soil mix? Would love to hear how it worked for you.:)

Hey brother. So u guys are talking way out of my range as far as quantity of soil. I use my own recipe that is pretty much based off Clackamas coots recipe. If u read his explanation on the mix it explains a lot. Dude is an organic monster imo so I'm all for it. As far as it being a solid recipe. To me if u don't need to mix a lot of soil it's perfect. I personally add a couple more things but that's because I happen to have them on hand. If I was mixing a lot of soil I'd buy bulk amendments no doubt. I wouldn't by enough Clackamas mix to amend that much soil. Hope I'm being clear there. U said u couldn't source good ewc. I'm not saying all ewc is created equal. If u had the ability to find some local fresh castings that would be great but I don't. What I'm saying is having to use store bought castings wouldn't stop me from mixing my soil. Also I'm sure u have already but use Craigslist. Usually u can find something there. I've sourced some great stuff there. Also again local fresh compost is best but there are some really good bagged stuff. U will find people who will stick to only using the freshest most local stuff around but u can use coat of main stuff or ancient forest or humasoil and do just fine. My plants do great with mostly store bought stuff. I feel like they would do better if I had superior compost or ewc but with all the bacteria and fungi I constantly add I'm not worried about it. Hope I addressed ur question. Hit me up if there is anything else. Respect and love to all of u guys!

 

[leadsled]

Thanks for sharing. Looks like a good mix, I like how they used a variety of micro amendments. Vs just rock dust. Like to see if that takes care of the micro issues that mix could have.
I want to see the logan lab test results.

That works out to be $14 a cubic foot about $28.00 per 2 cubic foot.
About double the cost some times almost triple the cost of a bagged soil from the dro shop. Much cheaper from a

Pricing out the very best ingredients can get up there in cost.

Here I lets compare the cost of peat and compost/ewc and then 2 different mineral kits.

Peat moss: I pay 25 a 3.8cf bale of berger. 1/3 of a yard is 9 cubic feet. Promix, SS#4 is around the same cost or more.
$75.00 for 3 bales of peat moss. 33% of the cc mix.

Compost Malibu: 15 a cubic foot. 5 bags of compost is $75.00

Castings: Worm power, Wonder Worm, or Vital Earth starts at $15 and goes up to 35 or more (worm power) per cubic foot. I will use $25 a cubic foot as an example.
$75.00 for 5 bags of ewc. use 4.5 cubic feet or each and you got your third of compost.

225.00 for the ingredients to mix a yard right there without aeration and not adding the amendments.
----
Now add the amendments.

KIS nutrient pack is $45.00 per 4 cubic foot. 6.75 packs x $45 = $303.75

or
Build a soil nutrients kit costs $120.00 to mix a yard of soil.
http://buildasoil.com/products/the-clackamas-kit

Then you have to mix it up and still buy lava rock or your choice of aeration.
That 345.00 a yard by using build a soil and 528.75 if I use KISS pack.

Do the legwork and buy all the ingredients can bring that down.

But pretty damn close already @ $380 a yard from rare earth.

----
Rare Earth CC mix INGREDIENTS:

Sphagnum Peat Moss
Malibu Compost
Worm Castings
Lava Pumice

Glacial Rock Dust (Gaia Green)
Basalt Rock Dust (Cascade Minerals)
Montmorillionite
Kelp Meal (Acadian)
Oyster Shell
Neem Cake (Ahimsa)
Crustacean Meal
Calcium Lime
Fish Bone Meal
Manganese Sulfate
Copper Sulfate
Zinc
Boron

-----
p.s. Don't forget to post the logan lab results @Bulldog11

 

[Bulldog11]

@leadsled Hope all your endeavors are going well, good to hear from you. You still implementing the AEA concepts?

That is the conclusion I came to when adding up everything. About the same price if you sourced everything, easier to just have Rare Earth mix it up. I had to drive a good 6 hours round trip, but I had to try this soil. All the studying I have done makes me feel like soil is one of biggest part of growing. I would have ordered 20 yards in Nov if Rare Earth had the mix ready.

BTW - I will post up those results for sure. Last day of rain today so I am going to let the pile sit and soak for another day or two before I send in the samples.

 

[leadsled]

@leadsled Hope all your endeavors are going well, good to hear from you. You still implementing the AEA concepts?

That is the conclusion I came to when adding up everything. About the same price if you sourced everything, easier to just have Rare Earth mix it up. I had to drive a good 6 hours round trip, but I had to try this soil. All the studying I have done makes me feel like soil is one of biggest part of growing. I would have ordered 20 yards in Nov if Rare Earth had the mix ready.

BTW - I will post up those results for sure. Last day of rain today so I am going to let the pile sit and soak for another day or two before I send in the samples.

Yes, still implementing the biological farming. Lots of work balancing the soil but once it gets there it shines. Been thinking about the premixed coot mix.

Been 17 days since you posted. Still eager to see the soil test results. Cmon post it up
Plant anything into that mix yet?

 

[Herb Forester]

@Bulldog11 can you say more about the fats and aminos you mentioned? Which ones do you consider essential?

And curious what you guys like about Malibu as opposed to other bagged compost like say Oly Mtn?

Montmorillonite is essentially the same thing as Azomite, right? And how do these differ from Bentonite?

 

[Bulldog11]

So I got the results back, and I also e-mailed Jami at Rare Earth and these are the numbers they are shooting for. From what I have studied, everything is really loaded up. Calcuim, magnesium and potassium although close to the ideal William Albrect ratio's, they are a fair amount above desired values. The 6.9 ph is quite high, but will be fixed with act's and a living mulch fairly quickly. That will also raise the exchangeable hydrogen which will help balance the base saturation %. I could see how this mix will work out great over the period of several months, and get even better over the years.

My first impression is, a very nice soil but is it the best soil mix you can buy? For the price it is the most expensive soil around for sure. Time will tell how the plants react, but this is the best soil I have ever tested as a first season soil. I have already planted seeds from dixie cups in the soil and they took very quickly.

What do you guys think? @leadsled (just so you don't miss the results)

I have to run, and I will answer your question as well @Herb Forester, sorry for the long delay. Daughter needs to be tucked in for the night. I will get back to you however.

 

[Bulldog11]

did it post? How about now?

 

[Bulldog11]

@Herb Forester -

Fats and amino's. When plants take up Nitrogen, they can do so in two forms: nitrate or ammonium. When your plant is efficiently converting these nitrate/ammonium nitrogen, it turns them into amino-acids and proteins. Neither is more "essential" than the other. Look at it as a process. If you have too much nitrogen then it will remain in its original form, and very little amino-acids and proteins are formed. However when your plant is balanced it will use the nitrogen as fuel along with sunlight, c02, 02, uptake of water and minerals, and sugar to create energy for the plant. This extra energy are formed as complex strings of proteins and amino acids, that will in turn produce "essential oils" and in the cannabis world this is a very good thing.

Compost - no compost is created equal. Many things to consider when making compost. Keeping an ideal carbon to nitrogen ration is very important. 25:1, 30:1. Monitoring temps, turning the pile so everything gets composted, quality of input material ext.

Bu's blend compost - These guys monitor everything on the farm. They feed the dairy cows high quality organic feeds, and maintain the same outputs. In other words, they really pay attention to the main ingredient in their compost which is cow poop. They keep this poop consistent, and the compost process is also consistent. Now compare that so say green waste from your local dumps. They have no idea what chemicals people used on their lawns, what inputs are being used, ext.

Oly mountain - I have heard fantastic things about this compost. However, I have not been able to use any as of now. I have heard both bu's and Oly Mountain are two of the best in the biz.

Rock dust question - As I understand it, those inputs are very close to the same thing. Minor differences in mineral contents, but I would imagine in the end they will all provide trace minerals to your plants, which is very important. I personally try to add as many different sources of rock dusts in my soil mix for diversity.

That's the best I can do.

 

[Seamaiden]

The pdf posted, but part of it is cut off.

 

[Bulldog11]

I cut off the top on purpose. That was the lab number ID, name, farm name ext. Everything important should be from ph of soil down.

 

[mike hunt]

Thanks for posting the results.

 

[leadsled]

Thanks for sharing the results @Bulldog11!!. Looks good other than what you pointed out. Little bit of boron to get the soil to 1-3ppm and you should be trucking along.

 

[midwestdensies]

Thanks for sharing the results @Bulldog11!!. Looks good other than what you pointed out. Little bit of boron to get the soil to 1-3ppm and you should be trucking along.

What would you add to get the boron in the desired range?

Dope thread guys!

 

[leadsled]

What would you add to get the boron in the desired range?

Dope thread guys!

What to get: Laundry Borax
or
Big AG product like solubor or Rebound or Salute by AEA. Calculate for higher % of boron if not using laundry borax.

--- How: to use laundry borax, Dissolve 20 grams, about one tablespoon in one quart of hot water. spray the water uniformly across the soil of a 100 square foot bed and you will be applying 2lbs per acre actual boron. That will shoot for about 1ppm in the soil.


Vs 1-3ppm in soil. Better to be safe and shoot for 1-2ppm.
Got a better recommendation for boron based on soil type. My source for this recommendation is a book. The Intelligent Gardener by Steve Solomon.
Target level for boron:
Light soil, TCEC below 10.0 = 2lb per acre (1ppm)
Heavy Soil, TCEC above 10.0 = 4lb per acre (2ppm)

 

[terranovaLOS]

So as someone who has ran the CC mix for a bit, and now I run something very closely similar still...There are many reasons why I think those inputs are designed at the ratios given in the original recipe.
1/2c Crab, Kelp, Neem Seed - then minerals like glacial rock, gypsum, OSF or glacial, langbeinite, whatever.

The mix is so incredibly light and low in P (there is also a reason why it is low in P) but still grows plants better than a super hot lab designed mix that's throwing in all sorts of ingredients in order to achieve "target levels" of elements.

A good compost, some peat (unwashed, humics..fulvics..N fixers..etc..), and a bit of aeration with the above inputs allows for a decent myco fungi colony to thrive. Doesn't it make sense we are introducing so much of everything when we chop and drop a living mulch, or some larf..etc...

The whole point is to get to a living soil scenario where you're tending the SFW with a few added boosts like Cytokinins and GAs. Everything else falls in place, mix gets simpler, cheaper...and then you just don't pay all that crazy cash. IIRC it costs me around 5 bucks/cuft to mix soil. Just get some compost piles going, keep track of brown and green inputs...cruise control.

TN

 

[Bulldog11]

@terranovaLOS DId you get your coots soil mix tested? I am wondering why you think it is a "incredibly light and low in P" mix. My soil tests show almost everything in excess, including P.