"Clear Concentrate" praise and questions

[Calixylon]

Yea its a purification process that uses steam to distill the waxes,lipids, and everything else out. It leaves you with an extremely high THC oil, that contains only THC, the terpenes are collected in a seperate spot, then either reconstituted back into the oil, or saved and added to other terpene free THC oil to "produce" that strain. Honest producers can make great product thats flavorful and strong, but thats probably not gonna happen. Most people are going to buy the shittiest of the shit, hash oil, distill it into clear THC oil, then either add some of their terpens collected from a nug run, or simply throw in some food grade terps. I used to think it was Co2, but was educated last weekend, the manufacturing process naturally sperates the thc fromt the terpenes, so unfortuantly people making this are expected to put all the terps back into that said THC it was pulled from, but when you can pour half the terps back in, and have it smell amazing, people wont do that.

The little jar of Sour terps they collected is what makes this whole thing sketchy, because i know for a fact it will happen, and probably already is happening, is that folks are gonna buy some 200 oz beer glass shatter, distill it into clear THC, then pour in their sour terps, and geuss what? Now dude has a full slab of "sour D" clear that he can sell for 1000 an oz. And their really is no way of knowing whether its food grade terps, whether its a natural run, or whether they just added in cannabis terps. If this oil is sold at a good price, then im all for it, but as a consumer i want to know what the hell im smoking, whether its pure or adulterated, food grade vs natural, and not paying ridiculous amount for sketchy oil.

As much as i love hash, the abilities to produce amazing smelling and looking oil out of nasty sketchy product is upon us. This is the face of mass produced cannabis extracts, and this is the camel and marlboro of weed, once certain companies like" Vader" and "Elevated Medibles" are ahead of the game, and in line to seriously turn into that.

 

[Calixylon]

The only thing this process should be used for is edibles, where terpenes are not as important, and flavor is not what you want. Otherwise this process literally strips all the "character" from the plant.

 

[WPCollective]

This process also gives you a solventless hash oil that you can vaporize and medicate with.

You can put the turpenes back into the hashoil or use completely different turpenes and create your own flavor. Making oil with gas was recently outlawed in WA state so I quit blowing my own oil months ago.

I didn't want to go back to making full melt bubble, because it takes so much work for so little yield. I can make some pretty clean shatter using a %99 iso wash technique then vacuum purging it but in the end, I really like and appreciate a clean, solventless, hash oil that I can vaporize.

 

[WPCollective]

It also would be a complete waste to use this process to make edibles. I infuse my own butter and oils for consumption and the small yield produced from fractal distillation, would leave your pockets empty and your trees bare with no product to show for it.

I make all of this myself for medicinal use. I agree with you that there are a lot of people out there ruining a good thing. I mean look at what happened to medical in WA state.

However, this thread is about producing, a high quality, all organic, solventless hash oil--not to discuss our theories on how this new science could potentially ruin the cannabis market.

 

[Calixylon]

Actually its about "clear concentrate" praise and questions, im just explaining whats happning, its not a theory either. This is what alot of extract companies are starting to do, and the unsavory folks will be misleading people who arent aware of what this prodcut is. Theres a reason the "clear" isnt a hugely popular method, because the people making it dont want folks to know that their making gold out of shit. If its sold for 25- 30 a g thats cool, but without a way to tell if its just boo boo oil distilled and mixed with food grade terps, or a quality nugrun with all terpenes reconsitituted consumers should educate themselves and make sure they buy from good people.

 

[WPCollective]

It's science, it's actually possible to refine poor oil and get a better quality oil out of it. What makes "boo boo" oil boo boo as you put it is the uneducated processor that makes a dirty product.

Then someone that knows what they are doing, can reprocess, refine it, then turn it into quality has oil. What makes it poor quality is the impurities in it, not the hash oil itself. It's the left over solvent and chlorophyll that is still in the hash oil because the processor didn't do their job properly. I've taken black 10-20/g oil and turned it into gold. Another reason to charge more is just like processing dry bud/trim when you make oil, you lose a lot of your starting material. It's not hash oil that you're losing, it's impurities. It takes a lot of time and effort to do this. A lot more time and effort than it does to make shit oil. Does that come at a cost? Damn right it does. IF I didn't have fellow patients and growers donating trim, bud, and root balls to me, I'd be sinking because the cost to have the starting material compared to the yield when I'm done, I'd have to charge $50-60/g at the market just to break even.

Did I do that so I could rip people off? No. I could have turned around and sold it back to the dispensary for 40-60/g+ and you would never know the difference. I do it for personal use and to educate people because there is so much misinformation and misuse with concentrates.

I take my solventless oil down to the market and share it, then charge $20/g so I can continue to refine my process and make my medicine. There are other guys out there like me where we are in it for the science and medicinal uses behind the plant. Sure there are unsavory individuals in this community but hell, they are everywhere. My day job is web developing and programming, there are plenty of guys in my field stealing programs and ripping people off as if it was their own source code.

Does that stop developers from creating software? No. Why should we stop refining this process and getting the best medicine because of unsavory individuals or big pharma coming in. It'd actually help if bigger companies with real investors picked up the technology and refined it for the use of medicinal cannabis. Then it'd open the door to so many more possibilities.

 

[Calixylon]

I agree with you, it seems like your taking my comments as a personal jab, whihc i dont understand. Im familiar with science, and how this process works. You pretty much stated exactly what im worried is occuring, im not saying your doing it, but their are folks who most defiently are reselling this refined "boo boo oil" with added terps, for more than they should.

Im pretty comftorable with basic organic chemistry, which is what this process is, pretty much buying a goodquality glass distilling setup, and a heat source, then turn it on, and let it collect. The process seems quite easy, mostly comes down to the quality and efiicency of your distilling setup.

The whole trash in gold out is also a factor, i know you say that bad oil is simply impurities, but that just isnt true. If you comapare a properly grown, organic, flushed, cured cannabis flowers and extract them, your going to get a great product thats alot higher in THC and terps than the bad oil, but all the terpenes that are unique and special to that plant are also stripped out druing distillation. So becasue of how the process works, running low quality material to refine it into something sellable, is what almost all people using this process do. Especially if the end product is the same if you put trach in or dank in, the only difference being the yield of the THC sap, and the amount of terpenes collected.

But I do think that for medibles this process is fantastic for edibles. Im almost positive that the THC oil comes out and is completly available for absorbtion becasue it is already decarbed. Also since it seperated the terpenes, which arent very important when it comes to edibles. And being compoletly solvent free is important when digesting oil

I am all for this process, i just think it has its place, and i believe that theirs alot better extraction methods to use, when running a quality, well grown, potent medicine. But if i could get huge amounts of questionable extracts for a good price, i would definelty look into a steam distillation unit

 

[WPCollective]

I apologize if it seems that way. I didn't take it as a personal jab, more of a jab to the community. I've read a lot of posts from guys who know and appreciate the science behind it but they don't want it advancing because of the potential bad uses of it.

I have seen trash in and gold out. What you are saying is absolutely true, when I turn trash into gold. It is an amazing product but it definitely is not as potent as my nug run batches. That's why the only thing I'll send to a lab is my personal batches because my patients won't invest in good starting material for this process.

I haven't perfected it yet, it is still a big learning curve. The only point I'm trying to make is I want people to start buying the glass sets and learning how to do it. Get the crap BHO off the streets. At least if they are selling stuff processed this way, it's a cleaner product that they are pushing.

I just try not to put any energy into thinking about the negatives that come along with this new technology and focus more on perfecting it for fellow patients like myself. I'm with you, the first batch I distilled, it was quality trim that smelled amazing and made some of the best ISO wash shatter I've ever produced.

When it came out, it was a beautiful clear hash oil that got me pretty lit with two single drops on the quartz nail. Then I noticed it tasted like floral water and all of those amazing terpenes were lost. Where I'm at now is figuring out how I can get those terpenes before I destroy them with this process, while still offering a clean hash oil that isn't produced with solvents.

Another solventless route I've been working with and have had amazing results is pressing rosin. Rosin can still give you a 15-25% yield and it's clear, solventless, glass - if done right.

 

[Calixylon]

i 100% agree with you, that these sets are necessary to get the complete crap that is made by some extractors. If it was open blasted, used canned butane without removing "mystery oil", or purged improperly it has absolutley no buisness being called medical, or being sold in any dispensary, and really shouldnt even be sold to people who want cheap oil. It just does rely on the extractor to be upfront and honest, and tell you wether it is refined oil that wasnt great quality, or to tell you that its a proper run, with either trim, or nugs and that all the terpenes were added back. If your taking terpenes from one material you are in essense robbing the patients of their money, and alot of people spend good money on concentrates. I just see it the same as "kiefing" you bud if you collect terps. But this is all from a standpoint of patients buying it, if your running your material and had access to all that, i would definetly collect raw cannabis terps for the dome

 

[Yakdoff]

Along the same lines: it's "anthocyanin" or "flower-blue" rather than "anthro cyanin" lit. "human-like violet pigment." I've seen the latter a few times already just in this thread.

 

[dab science]

just asked same question on another thread with no response so here it is again
has anyone tried takeing your oil winterizing it then doing this

then rotovap to short path distillation my guess is your clear would actually be clear not amber? because of the decollorant agent i picked this one in particullar because it says it leaves behind aromas and takes the color so i would guess it would not filter the terps out so you could collect them aswell? just a guess im in no way a educated chemist just a hobbyist

 

[EugeneOregon]

I believe you will need a steam distillation unit, an adapter-kit to put the steam distillation under vacuum-pressure, and a heat source (ideally a scientific hotplate with precise temperature control) to distill, vaporize, and/or sublimate. In reference to your comment on the most wholesome, full-spectrum cannabis extracts: look no further than full melt, clear dome dry sift purified using techniques of electrostatic separation. FMCD dry sift is the most whole, full-spectrum extract because of the fact that many volatile terpenes and cannabinoids are soluble and/or volatile (easily able to evaporate). Thus, all extracts besides dry sifting produce a product that has a mitigated spectrum of medicinal cannabinoids and terpenes due to solubility and/or volatility (i.e. terpenes dissolved in water when making bubble hash which leaves the water used smelling deliciously floral while the bubble hash is left with a diminished flavor and aroma).

There is no vacuum used in steam codistillation. Here is my setup

 

[EugeneOregon]

So I was at the Cup in SF this past weekend. Harborside had a new type of concentrate that was a "clear" Skywalker OG I believe. It was very good, tasty, and heavily medicating.

Here's a link to their site with a pic of the wax.



It was great. They said it was made using heat and pressure.

My question is....How in the world did they produce this? They said it was solvent-less.

Does anyone have any guesses on how to create this? I would love to make this at home. Thanks

I have demonstrated the feasibility of stram codistillation in my home lab; Excessive terpenes are easily removed with steam codistillation. This would be a single method of solventless purification althouh my video started with dispensary extract.

Then with a simple desktop set up the product is easily molecularly distilled, with each run through the still progressively producing more refine medicine. Second run medicine is VERY potent. I post this as a possible route to producing solventless, although of course water IS the most polar solvent and it seems a bit foolish to pursue a solventless extract for anything other than marketing. Our entire world is full of tools, like solvent, and it makes little practical sense to discard useful tools in favor of a type of scare tactic marketing which are routinely engaged across all industries. Keep in mind that terpenes are the original industrial solvents used and we inhale those all the time.

 

[Graywolf]

delete, answered wrong page

 

[Graywolf]

delete, lost my mind correcting first

 

[EMC2]

Its been a while since I've been on this farm but holy crap at all of the views and responses! Just wow. Thank you guys. This was posted before distillate really blew up. It all makes sense now - haha. Awesome responses in here with very valuable knowledge. I really appreciate it farmers.

 

[destructo]

It was great. They said it was made using heat and pressure.

SO years later was your conclusion that it was Rosin?

 

[EMC2]

SO years later was your conclusion that it was Rosin?

It was distillate w re-added terps

 

[EugeneOregon]

just asked same question on another thread with no response so here it is again
has anyone tried takeing your oil winterizing it then doing this

then rotovap to short path distillation my guess is your clear would actually be clear not amber? because of the decollorant agent i picked this one in particullar because it says it leaves behind aromas and takes the color so i would guess it would not filter the terps out so you could collect them aswell? just a guess im in no way a educated chemist just a hobbyist

That bleaching earth might be great but there is a way you can clean up extracts pretty easy and it will grab almost zero THC and nearly 100% of the green chlorophyls. It uses the same sort of stuff as winterizing but of course is a whole different concept.

First boil your extract/oil in a mix of isopropyl alcohol and water - commonly purchased as rubbing alcohol. Off the shelf 70/30 iso to water rubbing alcohol is what I use and it works great. Boil the mix and allow it to reduce. Iso and water form an azeotrope so the water and iso will not seperate as you boil. However the ratio of iso to water will reduce. There will be ever more water as the boil proceeds.

After a short time the oil will begin to drop out of solution in the boiling flask because there will not be enough iso anymore to keep it disolved. Stop the boil at that point and cool to room temp. It must absolutely be no hotter than room temp before the next step.

Now take a filtration funnel (mine has a frit in it) and they are normally called either buchner funnels or quick sep funnels. Pack about two inches of aluminum oxide powder (I use between 200-400 grit but have gone finer) onto the top of the buchner funnel. Pack it like a chromatography column which is to say pack it well and pay attention to the edges too.

Now take your cooled emulsion of extract/oil and pour it on top of the aluminum oxide. Use a vacuum to pull it through. You will need to add much more rubbing alcohol to pull it all through because you will see that boiling the stuff has swollen (hydrolysis) nearly everything organic like the green chlorophyls. All the components of "wax" plus all the mucky looking green you didn't even know was there will cloud up the solvent greatly and will tend to slow the process because it packs on top of the aluminum oxide while the THC laden rubbing alcohol passes through.

This process removes a whole lot of color, nearly 100% of the waxes and greatly improves the smokability of the oil. Solvents must be purged but most folks know how to do that. The aluminum oxide absorbs no THC or cannabinoids. It does stop ALL waxes and chlorophylls when used this way. I do it all the time. There is no bleaching action with this because it is a seperation but the advantage of course is that aluminum oxide can be bought at any hardware store in the abrasives section and it is cheap as dirt.

The reason it is critical that you cool the extract and NOT pour it through hot is that once the hot solvent with the THC in it is cooled in the column by the aluminum oxide then much of the THC will drop out into the column and get stuck. At room temp if it is not disolved with enough iso it just wont go into the column until you add more on top and then it passes through. Hot solvent also carries waxes through and there is just no good result trying to do this hot as I have tried lolz.