DIY LED with COBs - small medium and large grows

[Esoptron]

Placed the order today, and even tried to order another two dimmers to at least give me some wiggle room if one wasn't enough to run six drivers, but Jerry was so confident that one would work, he told me there's no need to get the other two. This guy, lol! Not often you can feel happy about shipping copious amounts of money off to China, right?
Anyways, I also asked if he had a wiring schematic for that dimmer, seeing as I couldn't find any myself. He sent this, for an anyone who might have wondered:

So, guess I'll know by next week how well it works.

At full power, that's going to be one bright freaking tent... Something like 280,000 lumens. Might have to wear shades.

 

[BobbyBoy]

Great thread, although I see the word CREE used too much.

In the last year or so Vero and Citizen are offering better COBS for cheaper price.
The only way CREE can continue to compete is to lower the prices... Pointless spending $50 on a CREE when a $30 vero 29/Citizen can do the same -/+5%

 

[Esoptron]

Paying $37/Cree cxb 3590 with holder and reflector cup. I'd pay the premium for the binning alone.

 

[Dunge]

Paying $37/Cree cxb 3590 with holder and reflector cup. I'd pay the premium for the binning alone.

I believe the point BobbyBoy was trying to make was that getting the BEST in a fast changing market is not always the best choice.
For example: I just purchased a 5 cab lamp for $140.
220 watts draw and bright bright bright.
I once reasoned that passive cooling was a plus in that I didn't want the fans being the failure point.
I now realize that if it lasts a few years, that's good enough.
Bigger and better will be available by then.
The more one spends up front the longer you will delay upgrading.

Just sharing my re-evaluation.[/QUOTE]

 

[TRK]

I agree on much of what was said in the last few posts there; however I am certainly no expert

My next build to fill out the rest of the space will be Vero 29 (the B-series one is 52v I think). I'll probably go 3000K although I am fully open to suggestions. I see a lot of guys using the high CRI chips these days... anyone got any thoughts on that? In my mind it was always a case of more photons being better, but now I am not so sure if there isn't some benefit in having a later red peak with less actual output

I think with Cree you get peace of mind in knowing that they are or were the best, and there is a ton of example stuff online working with Cree chips. And while Citizens datasheets may look impressive at first glance, when you really examine them in terms of the drive current they achieved their lumens/watt figures with, and how that relates to the maximum output of the chip, they are less good. But cheap, yessir, definitely. I am not a fanboy of any company, but I want whatever works best in the end

Yeah I priced them with KB and CXB+holder+reflector was 37 USD, Vero29 was 21 or 22 USD I think, and Gen 6 Citi 1212 was 10 bucks something the other day, but I think that vero was the price on the 35v D series chip, which is not the better of the three in terms of efficiency from my understanding

It's exciting stuff knowing that we are nowhere near the peak of COB technology and slapping new chips on existing rigs is pretty brain dead easy when they become obsolete, so in any case really the only investment you theoretically would lose is the cost of the chips themselves anyway; all the sinks and drivers etc can simply be remounted with newer COB, so long as your voltage will fit. The first couple of systems are the most expensive, but the chips are only about half the total cost, so a rebuild is very doable every few years

nice one
TRK

 

[Esoptron]

The reality of it all is that it takes a diverse pool of builders/experimenters who's collective shared experience advances the field together. The guys using the newer and largely untested/user documented chips are pushing the envelope within the cob revolution itself, and the guys like me who are treading more safely behind are helping to (we hope) establish this tech more firmly in the eyes of those still using less efficient light sources. Increasing interest and support tends to equal increased industry and more options with lower price points. In this, we are all still in the pioneer stage, which is really something pretty exciting, even if as individuals, we come up short compared to others.

For my part, I simply favor proven quality (binning plays a big role here) and I'm not a throw away after a couple years sort of guy. I buy for the long haul, even if that means skipping a few generations of improvements.

 

[sixstring]

i just had a guy at riu run some numbers for me comparing the citi,vero,and cree and 2 year old cree tech and new gen 7 vero still beats new citi in efficiency by alot.im just not seeing a savings when we go from 42% to 64% and lpw go from 140-150lpw to 200+ lpw it makes zero sense to me to save a few bucks on the build using lower grade chips.cree has come way down in price,im still seeing guys quote 48-50 bucks a chip and thats just wrong,they are 31 to 35 bucks each now so just a few bucks more than vero. im still waiting to see any grow using citi cobs that jumps off the page and makes me say wow,i want those cobs lmao.lots of cree and vero grows out there to back up the hype.

 

[Buckethead29]

My 100w Cree cxb 3590s from Timber grow lights came w a grounded potentiator built in heat resistant covered wire to a knob that w a lil help from a diamond Dremel hollow cylinder bit.. fits perfectly thru aluminum perforated angle iron holes of my self built frame <saved $ not paying shipping on some heavy ass metal pieces I can jus nut n locking bolt together> TGLs are relatively VERY affordable.. I'm not w them but these lights make diy a snap for n e one who works w their hands n can see color's. Lol. All wires from meanwell are color coded to lock right into a kinda self locking bond to chips, etc. I don't use the white reflector cups. My 4x3x6.5 two tier scrog has a built in wire rack optionally using a black out Velcro sheet making it a 2x4x6.5 n a foot ² of room for veg/clones. I'm opting the Velcro out. It's a perfect rest for my carbon filter till I can cradle it in my pulleys. All 3 lights. P300, 315w ledgle, 100w Cree cxb3590 - are at did heights.. ledgle resting on rack at angle Cree sightly skewed behind p300 both on right side. Going left to right. Ledgle<jus bloom ir n UV on. > Im adding a Mars epi 80 or reflector series 96 hung vertically on my taalll two tiered canopy..

 

[jaybodankly]

How do COBs and Quantum Boards compare?

 

[sixstring]

How do COBs and Quantum Boards compare?

They jive sweet doggie :)

 

[kriaze]

Hello again, I'm just popping back in to thank everyone for the advice given earlier in the thread. I built some cheap COB's (Citizen 1212's) using cheap Chinese drivers and server heatsinks to add to my existing setup. I bought cheap first to be sure that I didn't waste too much money but in the future I would be confident in building more expensive setups or even replacing just the Citizen cobs themselves.

Anyway they are up and have been running for around a month now, of the 5 drivers I bought one did blow, that could have been down to my dodgy soldering though. Here are the last three that I built, the first had been in the veg tent being tested awhile before I completed them:

Here they are in my veg tent:

Here are the other two added to my previous setup in my flowering tent:

The silver prebuilt COB lights cost £220 each shipped to the UK, the black CREE kits were from cutter.com and cost around £140 each shipped. My own build may look like dogshit but cost a maximum of £25 each, more like £22 but adding solder, tape etc I'll go with £25. Thanks to you all!

 

[Zen]

I keep coming back here, so I figured I'd ask.
While I'd love to have a nice COB setup, it's rather difficult to get off the ground here. Availability is poor at best, and knowledge is even harder to come by. There's always the internet, but that isn't without its pitfalls.
Getting parts from a non-euro source is tricky, since my country has decided that globalization is only supposed to be fun for corporations. As a mere citizen, buying from outside Europe means that the price will effectively double or triple before shipping is factored in. This is actually the best case scenario. If you're slightly more unlucky, customs will sit it for a few months, as happened when I purchased three Canadian comic books. If you're a bit more unlucky, they might hang on to it due to missing local certification or the like. This last scenario might also result in a couple of polite men in uniform paying you a visit. You will probably merely be registered and given a warning, but that would be the only one you'd get.
That was a bit of a tangent, but I'm merely trying to make it quite clear that the usual NA and Chinese sources are unfortunately right out in my case. I should also point out that I'm not asking anyone to help me break the law. Quite the opposite. As long as I find a EU source, there isn't the slightest problem with any of this. Actually, that's a bit of a lie, because the UK is often not willing to ship merchandise to the mainland for various British reasons.

Getting back on track, I'd really appreciate some help. My growing area is 4X4 feet, and cooling is adequate. I'm planning on 3 pounds of copper per COB, as well as passive cooling via an a high air flow in the area. I trust this wouldn't cause problems, but I'm ready to modify them with invidual computer fans.
I'm leaning towards Cree 3070 for two reasons. First of all, 3590 seems to be roughly twice as expensive if you go with Euro vendors, while I've had a hard time finding alternative brands. My own ignorance is an immense factor here; until recently I hadn't heard about Vero, KB, or others; my hands on experiences with net sale is honestly pathetic, so finding products I barely know of is proving a source of great frustration. I'm not against any sensible type of COB.
For controller, I have no idea. There appear to be some fun US models, but I'm wondering if voltage would be an issue. Pardon if my ignorance is grating. I'm planning on 4 COBs with an additional 2 at a later date. As an aside, I am curious as to what a 4x4 area can handle, and what sort of controller would be necessary for that.

Either way, I must say that you have a very inspiring collection of information.

 

[Freshone]

i just had a guy at riu run some numbers for me comparing the citi,vero,and cree and 2 year old cree tech and new gen 7 vero still beats new citi in efficiency by alot.im just not seeing a savings when we go from 42% to 64% and lpw go from 140-150lpw to 200+ lpw it makes zero sense to me to save a few bucks on the build using lower grade chips.cree has come way down in price,im still seeing guys quote 48-50 bucks a chip and thats just wrong,they are 31 to 35 bucks each now so just a few bucks more than vero. im still waiting to see any grow using citi cobs that jumps off the page and makes me say wow,i want those cobs lmao.lots of cree and vero grows out there to back up the hype.

Six is there a break on the cree cobs if you buy say 25 or 50?I'm assuming Jerry is the source?What about drivers?

 

[sixstring]

Six is there a break on the cree cobs if you buy say 25 or 50?I'm assuming Jerry is the source?What about drivers?

yes jerry is the spot for quantity prices on cree,he has decent driver prices as well but i think it drives the shipping way up because they are so heavy.but yeah jerry is a one stop shop now with drivers,cree,heatsinks,holders ect

 

[DeepHydro]

Hello again, I'm just popping back in to thank everyone for the advice given earlier in the thread. I built some cheap COB's (Citizen 1212's) using cheap Chinese drivers and server heatsinks to add to my existing setup. I bought cheap first to be sure that I didn't waste too much money but in the future I would be confident in building more expensive setups or even replacing just the Citizen cobs themselves.

Anyway they are up and have been running for around a month now, of the 5 drivers I bought one did blow, that could have been down to my dodgy soldering though. Here are the last three that I built, the first had been in the veg tent being tested awhile before I completed them:

View attachment 679120

Here they are in my veg tent:

View attachment 679121

Here are the other two added to my previous setup in my flowering tent:

View attachment 679123

The silver prebuilt COB lights cost £220 each shipped to the UK, the black CREE kits were from cutter.com and cost around £140 each shipped. My own build may look like dogshit but cost a maximum of £25 each, more like £22 but adding solder, tape etc I'll go with £25. Thanks to you all!

Please clean that up. That looks awful. Show some pride. Ugh.

You're just going to leave the drivers hanging like that? Some are taped. Oh man. Nothing personal. No offense.

I guess you could try some zip ties, and that would be better. They hold good, and they're non-conductive. Peace my brudda.

 

[Dunge]

Please clean that up. That looks awful. Show some pride. Ugh.

You're just going to leave the drivers hanging like that? Some are taped. Oh man. Nothing personal. No offense.

I think they look fine.
Any mechanical solution that involves sticks or strings is probably a "least action" sweet spot.
(tape is a form of string in this argument)

 

[kriaze]

Please clean that up. That looks awful. Show some pride. Ugh.

You're just going to leave the drivers hanging like that? Some are taped. Oh man. Nothing personal. No offense.

I guess you could try some zip ties, and that would be better. They hold good, and they're non-conductive. Peace my brudda.

Haha they do look a little rough don't they? The thing is it's a case of function over form rather than form over function. An engineer friend offered to make me mouldings for them at a small price and I could also have a housing 3D printed at cost...but it's all extra cost purely for aesthetics. These are dirt cheap lights that work, they run cool and give off light without hurting my wallet, what's not to like? I'd rather have them up and doing the job rather than getting anal about only buying the best and everything having to look pretty lol. If you think they look bad you should see my plants. I won't be ripping them out either and starting again as they'll work too, would you rip yours up if they didn't look pretty enough all the way through? I reckon not, all the best :smoking:

@Dunge thank you for, well, seeing the light the way I do lol. May your buds be forever bountiful :)

 

[TRK]

Hi fellas

Just ordered up a bunch of 3000K Vero 29 gen 7 from KB to fill out the rest of the flower room

Thought what the heck and grabbed enough to make a rail of 4000K too LOL we'll see how that works out as a early veg replacement for a T5, maybe we'll end up going bluer down the line

just waiting on some drivers being back in stock and they will be sending them my way

Hopefully maybe Cree will be out with something new by the start of next year too

COB royally whoops ass IMHO, with all factors considered, bar none the best lighting system I have ever had the pleasure to work with

@Zen
I also live in the non-EU Euro zone, Switzerland, traditionally a country that is hard to import into cheaply, and where seized seed orders get your house raided months later. What you have to remember is that these COB parts are not traditionally used as grow lighting, so whilst you realise what their intended purpose is, customs regard this as shop/studio/architectural fittings. If tax is an issue for you, I'm fairly sure if you ask Kingbrite nicely they will be able to help you avoid most if not all of the tax, as they have me. As far as direct Euro sources of the chips, they exist, but are ultra expensive at like 65+ Euros for a old gen Vero 29 D. Another way to tackle it is to use a mail/parcel receiving service in another country, drive across the border and collect it yourself, smuggling it back and paying no tax whatsoever on it in your country, only paying the much lighter tax in the friendlier neighbour country.

There are certainly means available if you are as committed as I am LOL

nice one all
LD

 

[Kelsey]

Hey guys a lot of you know me from RIU or ICMag but for the LED growers here that have not seen it, here is the recipe for building DIY LED very cheaply. Why build a DIY lamp? You can get up to 49% efficiency if you can find the top bins and run them soft (700mA). You can get 36% efficiency with the mid bin running hard (1400mA). The best commercial LEDs (Area 51, Apache, Onyx) are in the low 30s. Another advantage is the ability to have remote drivers to keep that heat out of your grow space and away from the LED heatsinks.

Everything has changed since COBs became available to us. It is much easier to build a lamp and it turns out that 3000K works just fine on its own, better than HPS even.

For the simplest build the best COBS to use are the Cree CXA3070 and Vero 29. The CXA 3000K has 14% blue and the Vero 3000K 8-10%. They are available on Digikey or if you need a bulk order you can save $ on Arrow.

As far as drivers go, 1.4A is a good compromise between cost and efficiency. They are available on eBay for $13, 90% efficient and power factor corrected. You can use Mean Well LPC-60-1400 but it is lower efficiency and not power factor corrected. If you want to run at 1050mA you can use Mean Well LPC-60-1050. The one I tested was 88% efficient.

For heatsinks, CPU coolers work great for small grows. The 92mm Arctic 11 Plus is a favorite because it can be found for $10 and uses a fluid dynamic bearing fan, lots of cooling power and not too loud. Amazon and Newegg sometimes offer them for $10. Currently outletPC has them for $10 with reasonable shipping cost.

If you are building a medium or large lamp, I recommend HeatsinkUSA 5.88" profile. A 12" length is good for (2) COBs and a 24" length is good for (4) COBs. You can cool it with a single 140mm fan to make a super efficient cooling combo. I recommend the Prolimatech 140mm from Amazon. It is quiet even at 13V and moves a lot of air.

View attachment 415611

The Vero is solder free but the Cree requires a COB holder and to go solder free. Both methods require drilling and tapping the heatsink. I don't mind the soldering so rather than drilling, I mount the COB with Prolimatech PK3 thermal paste and then use kapton to tape the COB in place so it cannot slide sideways. The paste makes a very strong vacuum when you press the COB onto the heatsink. It will not come off from gravity or heat. If you try to pry it off it will break. You have to twist it and then slide it sideways to get it off.

Small build:
View attachment 415595

Medium build:
View attachment 415593

Large build:
View attachment 415594

 

[Zen]

Hi fellas

Just ordered up a bunch of 3000K Vero 29 gen 7 from KB to fill out the rest of the flower room

Thought what the heck and grabbed enough to make a rail of 4000K too LOL we'll see how that works out as a early veg replacement for a T5, maybe we'll end up going bluer down the line

just waiting on some drivers being back in stock and they will be sending them my way

Hopefully maybe Cree will be out with something new by the start of next year too

COB royally whoops ass IMHO, with all factors considered, bar none the best lighting system I have ever had the pleasure to work with

@Zen
I also live in the non-EU Euro zone, Switzerland, traditionally a country that is hard to import into cheaply, and where seized seed orders get your house raided months later. What you have to remember is that these COB parts are not traditionally used as grow lighting, so whilst you realise what their intended purpose is, customs regard this as shop/studio/architectural fittings. If tax is an issue for you, I'm fairly sure if you ask Kingbrite nicely they will be able to help you avoid most if not all of the tax, as they have me. As far as direct Euro sources of the chips, they exist, but are ultra expensive at like 65+ Euros for a old gen Vero 29 D. Another way to tackle it is to use a mail/parcel receiving service in another country, drive across the border and collect it yourself, smuggling it back and paying no tax whatsoever on it in your country, only paying the much lighter tax in the friendlier neighbour country.

There are certainly means available if you are as committed as I am LOL

nice one all
LD

That's really good advice, and I think you're spot on regarding the shockingly poor Euro market.
The tax itself is not a problem. It's that I'd pay draconic duty fees, import fees, sales tax (25%) on the item... sales tax on the import fee, and the duty fee. Until recently you even had to pay taxes on the shipping you bought in another country, and they still charge you that once in a while.

Yet, point taken. Several good options right there. Thank you. :)