Iron labs bunk results

[Bill Murry]

Just some of the GC limitations. We too have seen inconstant samples from iron labs.
http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/31531.pdf
more info on how the results are derived.
Response Factor

The size of a spectral peak is proportional to the amount of the substance that reaches the detector in the GC instrument. No detector responds equally to different compounds. Results using one detector will probably differ from results obtained using another detector. Therefore, comparing analytical results to tabulated experimental data using a different detector does not provide a reliable identification of the specimen.

A "response factor" must be calculated for each substance with a particular detector. A response factor is obtained experimentally by analyzing a known quantity of the substance into the GC instrument and measuring the area of the relevant peak. The experimental conditions (temperature, pressure, carrier gas flow rate) must be identical to those used to analyze the specimen. The response factor equals the area of the spectral peak divided by the weight or volume of the substance injected. If the technician applies the proper technique, of running a standard sample before and after running the specimen, determining a response factor is not necessary.

Worn Septum

An injection port septum should last between 100 and 200 injections. Higher injection port temperatures shorten the septum's lifespan. A leaking septum adversely affects the GC instrument's sensitivity.

If a portion of the specimen leaks back out of the septum, the amount of the specimen is not recorded. This event makes any eventual quantitative result erroneous. If air should leak into the injection port through a worn septum, the oxygen and water contained in air may skew the results. Any oxygen may react with the specimen components. If this happens, the GC instrument will provide results indicating the presence of this unintended reaction product, instead of the original compounds present in the specimen vial. Any water in the column adversely affects the GC instrument's ability to separate components.

Injection Port Temperature

The temperature of the GC injection port must be high enough to vaporize a liquid specimen instantaneously. If the temperature is too low, separation is poor and broad spectral peaks should result or no peak develops at all. If the injection temperature is too high, the specimen may decompose or change its structure. If this occurs, the GC results will indicate the presence of compounds that were not in the original specimen.

Residual Impurities

Ideally, all components of a specimen elute completely from the GC column. If any substance remains inside the column, the substance may elute during subsequent analyses with other specimens. This may result in an unexpected peak in the output. The peak produced should be broad.

Carrier Gas

If the GC instrument uses hydrogen for the carrier gas, the technician must consider whether the hydrogen may react with any of the compounds present in the specimen. If the hydrogen does react, a broad peak will result. When using a thermal conductivity detector, care should be taken as a false peak may occur if the carrier gas's thermal conductivity is in the range of the thermal conductivity of any compound in the specimen. An unstable carrier gas flow rate may produce a drifting baseline and false broad peaks. A carrier gas should be pure. Regular changing of the gas filter should prevent significant impurities.

Crucial Factors

GC analysis is highly reliable if the instrument is properly maintained, the technician follows proper procedures, and the interpretation of the results is competent. While some factors rarely affect GC analysis, some factors are absolutely essential for the use of reliable GC evidence. In all cases a technician must process a standard sample containing a verified composition identical to the presumed contents of the collected specimen. This standard sample must be processed before and after the collected specimen under identical conditions. Any output from the collected specimen that does not match the standard sample is inconclusive. If tabulated reference data exists for the relevant conditions, the specimen data must match the reference data.

If advance notice of GC testing is available, an adverse party should observe the procedure. If a retained consultant or the knowledgeable attorney observes the technician's use of the GC instrument, important information can be recorded. The technician's preparation of the specimen and the subsequent injection can be observed for errors or malfunctioning equipment. The observer should record the instrument's make, model, serial number, injection temperature, column temperature, carrier gas flow rates and pressure, identify the type of detector used, and observe any manipulation of the data by use of a computer. Ensure that the technician properly starts measuring the time at injection and records the time of elution. Any discrepancy in the time will produce an erroneous retention time. If the procedure can not be observed, the adverse party should seek all pertinent information (experimental conditions, measurements, instrument identification) and hard copy output.

 

[Bill Murry]

Customers at Nectar Cannabis use several methods to choose the weed that’s right for them.

Some trust the budtenders at the medical marijuana dispensary on Northeast Sandy Boulevard to pick a strain from the nearly 60 options on the menu. A few veteran patients trust their sense of smell, sniffing the green nuggets kept in gallon-sized Mason jars.

But most rely on the labels affixed to each jar, which list the percentage of the intoxicants THC and CBD in each bud.

Those numbers tell consumers how quickly the pot will get them high, what the buzz will feel like, and how long it will last.

“Patients focus a lot on the numbers,” says Nectar manager Jeff Johnson. “Almost too much sometimes. There’s so much variation in strains, we really need the testing to know what we’re getting.”

But an inspection of those test results shows consumers aren’t always getting reliable information.

WW sent samples from a single marijuana batch to four Portland-area pot testing labs whose results go on the labels that inform consumers.

The results? Big discrepancies in how much THC and CBD were found in samples from the same batch. The labs’ results showed a 10-point spread in THC levels. That could be like handing a glass of gin to a drinker and telling him it’s wine. CBD levels ranged from one-third lower than what appeared on the label to more than six times as high.

“Of course there’s a spread, because there’s no standardization, there’s no regulation, there’s no nothing,” says Amy Margolis, a Portland lawyer representing marijuana growers. “People need to know what they’re putting in their body, and to have the one consumer protection be totally unsupervised is absurd.”

Clamor is increasing for state lawmakers to license and regulate labs that test and label pot sold in Oregon medical dispensaries.

WW reported earlier this month that growers have complained the state requires testing pot for potency, mold and pesticides—but sets no rules for the labs doing the work (“Testing Flower Power,” WW, Feb. 4, 2015).

Labs charge dispensaries $100 to $200 to test one batch of weed. The state doesn’t regulate how much dope can be in the batch, what methods labs use to conduct tests, and what parts of the plant they measure. (Buds closer to the top of the plant, where they get more sunshine, have higher levels of THC.)

Legislators worry the lack of oversight and inconsistent results could spark a big problem as the state prepares for recreational weed to become legal this July. Lawmakers have said new buyers will have less experience with labeled products than people who have been using the medical marijuana system for years.

Last week, the Oregon Liquor Control Commission asked the Legislature to require licensing for weed labs. Lawmakers are now mulling a bill that would certify labs through the state accreditation agency.

“We’ve been hearing there are very uneven standards in the labs,” says state Sen. Ginny Burdick (D-Portland), who co-chairs the Legislature’s House-Senate committee on marijuana legalization. “And that can be very risky when you consider that we’re getting into a recreational market. We need quality control.”

WW put Portland’s marijuana labs to the test by obtaining about 20 grams of Trainwreck Arcata Cut—a sativa hybrid strain known for its strong THC kick. We divided the batch into four portions, and delivered those samples to four different local labs in the span of 48 hours.

The batch, all grown in a 300-square-foot room at Eco Firma Farms in Wilsonville, is currently being sold on dispensary shelves with its THC content labeled at 16 percent.

But the results from local labs ranged from less than 14 percent THC content up to almost 24 percent.

The label also says Trainwreck Arcata Cut has a CBD potency of 0.1 percent. One lab result was .003 percent, while another was 0.66 percent.

Labs also test for acceptable levels of mold. The batch passed in three tests and failed in a fourth.

Shown the range of test results, lab owners said the variations could have been caused by different moisture levels in the buds and varying test methods and equipment.

But they agreed new oversight was needed.

“We’re in support of anything that produces standardized results and keeps the costs low,” says Patsy Myers, co-owner of MRX Labs in Northeast Portland. “People should be able to trust without question what their results are.”


How High? Hard To Say.

Trainwreck Arcata Cut from Eco Firma Farms is labeled for sale as medical marijuana at 16 percent THC content. At WW’s request, four labs tested the buds—and came up with different results.

 

[Bill Murry]

http://liq.wa.gov/publications/Marijuana/BOTEC reports/2b-Accrediting-Labs-Final-Corrected.pdf

ISO/IEC 17025:2005 specifies the general requirements for the competence to carry out tests and/or calibrations, including sampling. It covers testing and calibration performed using standard methods, non-standard methods, and laboratory-developed methods.

It is applicable to all organizations performing tests and/or calibrations. These include, for example, first-, second- and third-party laboratories, and laboratories where testing and/or calibration forms part of inspection and product certification.

ISO/IEC 17025:2005 is applicable to all laboratories regardless of the number of personnel or the extent of the scope of testing and/or calibration activities. When a laboratory does not undertake one or more of the activities covered by ISO/IEC 17025:2005, such as sampling and the design/development of new methods, the requirements of those clauses do not apply.

ISO/IEC 17025:2005 is for use by laboratories in developing their management system for quality, administrative and technical operations. Laboratory customers, regulatory authorities and accreditation bodies may also use it in confirming or recognizing the competence of laboratories. ISO/IEC 17025:2005 is not intended to be used as the basis for certification of laboratories.

Compliance with regulatory and safety requirements on the operation of laboratories is not covered by ISO/IEC 17025:2005.

 

[Bill Murry]

http://psilabs.org/

Just had a great phone conversation with the guys over at PSIlabs their looking to be open in May here in michigan. They have taken the time to address several of the concerns i've listed in this thread. They will be accredited and using redundant testing techniques to ensure high quality repeatable results. I'm really hoping this gives us farmer a new reliable option for med testing. Both the owners are patients as well and seem to have a vested interest in accurate results. Yes one of them is a qualified scientist with degree's that will be overseeing the GC testing standards and performing the analysis. I'm in no way associated with this new company and only hope that with more labs open the market will require higher standards across the board.

 

[Cannis]

This place uses the better more accurate HPLC, or high-performance liquid chromatography method:
They are in Lansing with affiliates around the state, not sure about out of state.

Hello all btw

 

[rascali]

Actually, 3/5 results (including the reference) are fairly well bunched, considering sample size and normal product and technical variance. In addition, errors are mostly on the positive side- which while cheating the patient slightly, are the safer route for dose titration.

On the other hand, jeez couldn't they find some non-mited out bud to test? lol

 

[LordFader]

@ bill murry i also had a long talk with them guys and those certifications sound very strict! Hope it sets a new standard for med testing.

 

[Bill Murry]

@LordFader I like too that they have stake in the game been patients, with specific aliments they require certain levels of cannabinoid themselves. So they'll be relying on the same products on the market not just my shelves but all over the Mitten.

 

[happylittle]

This place uses the better more accurate HPLC, or high-performance liquid chromatography method:
They are in Lansing with affiliates around the state, not sure about out of state.

Hello all btw

Just so everyone knows this company (Cannalytics) is no longer around.

I ran this lab for the last 2 years of its operation.

Hopefully some new labs will step up and take the lead in setting industry standards by communicating with the other labs on procedure and standards
-J

 

[Bill Murry]

WOW these fucks have been taking lifetime sign up fees for a couple years , Now all the sudden your money is gone and welcome to yearly being bent the fuck over. These dudes run a chop shop of labs and i can't believe they think people will use their wack ass services at these astronomical rates. Can't wait to see what PSIlabs.org is going to offer. I hope they put them out of business. Fucking Hacks




Notice Letter To Customers
All existing and future IRON Laboratories Members
IRON Laboratories continues to improve on its core mission of delivering SAFETY, QUALITY, and RELIABILITY in everything we do. Through innovation and application of the highest scientific standards to the testing of medicinal (including derivative-based) products, we will continue to be the leader in medicinal testing. We continue to invest resources to accomplish our mission during this time of change in how the government may best address our new and growing industry. As your trusted partner, it is clear that we must now also move forward with our plans for better serving the needs of our current and future members.



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IRON Lab Tech Consulting Per Hour $ 170.00 $150.00 $130.00
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[ohthatguy8]

Do they really have visual inspections lmfao

 

[ohthatguy8]

I smoke test buds for free! However if you would like a written report I'll need a few dabs

 

[Prime C]

My last test was 5 dif strains and one came back with Aphids. Ive never had them before and all other samples were clean and it was all in the same room. Sloppy testing!

 

[Bill Murry]

@Prime C i won't out them in public but between the owner and the non-accredited lab staff/standards with knowing two former employee's inside knowledge Iron labs is lucky to this point they haven't totally spread their dirty laundry.
https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=6uXHdmoAAAAJ&view_op=list_works&sortby=pubdate
LEV SPIVAK-BIRNDORF, MS, PHD

Lev Spivak-Birndorf recently completed a post-doctoral research fellowship in metal isotope geochemistry at Indiana University. Prior to working at Indiana University, Lev received his doctorate in geochemistry and cosmochemistry at Arizona State University.

In 2011, Lev was awarded the highly competitive NASA Earth & Space Science Fellowship to fund his doctoral research. Lev‘s proposal was one of only 14 that were awarded from a total of 73 Planetary Science Research applications that year. Lev has over 10 years of experience operating and maintaining a variety of analytical chemistry instruments. This includes a heavy emphasis on different techniques of mass spectrometric analysis that are critical to the testing of both naturally occurring compounds and undesirable adulterants in medical cannabis. He has considerable experience generating and presenting empirical chemical data as an author of numerous peer-reviewed scientific papers and international conference presentations.

Lev is a medical marijuana patient with Crohn’s Disease. He has completely eliminated all pharmaceutical medications from his therapy regimen, and now treats his symptoms with medical cannabis.

^^^^^^^^^^This is the most important part about testing is a foot in the game^^^^^^^^

 

[Bill Murry]

Just got an email from one of the owners that PSI labs is up and running in Beta mode(full cannabinoid profiles only). I've also been invited down to A squared to visit there facility. Totally stoked will have to hit some Disc parks while in the Dub.

Got this to from a pissed off farmer who used Iron after he got his email.

"The owner is a fucking douche bag fuck you at Iron labs we now have a choice will run your fucking business right out of town asshole can't wait to post your new bullshit, that business is going right in the fucking hole"

http://psilabs.org/

Just had a great phone conversation with the guys over at PSIlabs their looking to be open in May here in michigan. They have taken the time to address several of the concerns i've listed in this thread. They will be accredited and using redundant testing techniques to ensure high quality repeatable results. I'm really hoping this gives us farmer a new reliable option for med testing. Both the owners are patients as well and seem to have a vested interest in accurate results. Yes one of them is a qualified scientist with degree's that will be overseeing the GC testing standards and performing the analysis. I'm in no way associated with this new company and only hope that with more labs open the market will require higher standards across the board.

 

[oscar169]

its funny how iron labs charges for bio when all it is, is a visual inspection under a scope.
Good Luck Iron Labs, We were your first client and we are gone! and its not because of your pricing, its because the owner doesnt deserve my money I would rather pay someone else twice as much, and get treated like a customer instead of the "you need us" attitude.

Best Comment yet, ^^^ Again all together now (FUCK IRON LABS)!!!!

 

[Bill Murry]

Well here's what they've got going so far at PSI labs. Didn't get a chance to swing down due to the heavy rains causing some issues at home for one of the owners. So that said i'll be trying to get down there this weekend coming up.

 

[happylittle]

Ill be trying to find a day this week to make it to psi labs also to check them out. Ill be testing everything i take to them prior using Thin Layer Chromatography prior to taking things in so i have a number prior to theirs.
We gotta stay on top of the labs in the state so we can call them out when they dont follow thru or dont follow procedures.
ill post the results after.

 

[Cannis]

Met Lev & Ben at PSI, really good first impression from these guys. They are up and running, looking forward to them implementing all phases of their operation. If your going there, fyi there is no street number at the road or a sign but they are there in the back of the complex. They have been working some long hours setting up. I told them to check out the forum/Michigan section.

 

[Prime C]

Herbal Solutions in Ypsi tested my Glue through PSI Labs at 19.5% then another sample went to the Green door in Ann Arbor which was sent to Arborside and then tested at Steep Hill Halent? Only 16.5%! My last batch was over 22% So im not putting much faith in these testing facilities. And where is Steep Hill at? I thought it was Cali. :confused: