Leaf Claw And Some Wilt, Need Some Advice

[DGP]

Recently I changed my DWC system and added top feed with the reservoir outside the grow room to keep the water cooler and to have a reservoir that is easier to maintain rather than 12 dang buckets to ph and change out.

However, before I switched it up I noticed some bad smell developing in the old buckets so I cleaned everything and rebuilt the system. When I look at the plants I see claw, some slight darkening of leaf tips indicating nitrogen toxicity, some leaf spotting (no bugs seen even at 100x) as well as some old roots that look like they were affected by the start of root rot but there are tons of new white roots coming out even from some of the slightly damaged roots. I think they are recovering but I wanted to get some other opinions so that I don't F it up worse.

Grow data:
1. Strain Cheese Quake f2
2. LED lights 12 cobs 3 x 4 at 12" spacing
3. 36" above plants (currently dimmed to 400 watts out of the wall)
4. Plants in 4th week after sprout
5. Nutes: GH Flora 3 part with some CalMag
6. Ppm: 350
7.Water: clear tap 50ppm or less
8. Use a low concentration of H2o2 (about .5ml/L)
9. Temp: 75f humidity about 55%
10. Water temp: 65 - 68f
11. Ph 5.8 to 6.2

 

[GrowzNCali]

I just went through the same thing in my grow. Looks almost identical to my situation. It was root rot. My plants have bounced back and are now growing nice healthy roots. The damaged roots will remain. So long as you don't see the rot worsening and you see new healthy roots growing you should see them bounce back. I even have some healthy ones growing right through the section that was hit by root rot and they're staying healthy and white.

I'd recommend pruning any leaves that have more than 50% damage from it. That way the energy from the new roots can be used for new growth.

 

[DGP]

I just went through the same thing in my grow. Looks almost identical to my situation. It was root rot. My plants have bounced back and are now growing nice healthy roots. The damaged roots will remain. So long as you don't see the rot worsening and you see new healthy roots growing you should see them bounce back. I even have some healthy ones growing right through the section that was hit by root rot and they're staying healthy and white.

I'd recommend pruning any leaves that have more than 50% damage from it. That way the energy from the new roots can be used for new growth.

Thanks for the reply! I think it was a slight root problem that I caught real early as well as a little too high a ppm. Plants are pulling thru nicely now.

Pick below is a plant 4 weeks from sprout:

 

[EventHorizan]

Thanks for the reply! I think it was a slight root problem that I caught real early as well as a little too high a ppm. Plants are pulling thru nicely now.

Pick below is a plant 4 weeks from sprout:

View attachment 775800

What you using to ward off pythium?

 

[DGP]

What you using to ward off pythium?

Just reducing temperature of water. a fresh water change out and a little 33% H202 diluted to proper strength.

Also, changed the DWC system to a RDWC with a 27 gallon reservoir outside the grow in the cool garage so I can manage a water temp between 62-67F.

Will be buying a 1/4 horse chiller cause there are days when the outside temp is close to 60 and the additional heat load between ambient and warm water returning from a 78F grow room cause the water to get close to the danger zone. I use an aquarium heater to insure it doesn't drop below 62 and milk jugs full of frozen water on the unseasonably warm Winter days. So, I already know from the 2 days that were warmer than normal that a water chiller is in my future.

Thanks,

D

 

[EventHorizan]

Just reducing temperature of water. a fresh water change out and a little 33% H202 diluted to proper strength.

Also, changed the DWC system to a RDWC with a 27 gallon reservoir outside the grow in the cool garage so I can manage a water temp between 62-67F.

Will be buying a 1/4 horse chiller cause there are days when the outside temp is close to 60 and the additional heat load between ambient and warm water returning from a 78F grow room cause the water to get close to the danger zone. I use an aquarium heater to insure it doesn't drop below 62 and milk jugs full of frozen water on the unseasonably warm Winter days. So, I already know from the 2 days that were warmer than normal that a water chiller is in my future.

Thanks,

D

Can i see your setup..
I like rdwc...

 

[DGP]

Can i see your setup..
I like rdwc...

Sure, will post pictures shortly. I posted a thread early about it but got zero response. The reason I posted it is because I have been working with a physicist who specializes in plant culture and we are using a NFT like technique in this run. It is very much like RDWC (so I guess when I replied I didn't know how to refer to it other than RDWC) but water doesn't accumulate much in the 5 gallon grow buckets. They are top feed, bottom return line and the 600 GPH pump feeds (12 plants) drip rings in the top and the water percolates through hydroton and runs down the roots to the return. The pump and back up pump run 24/7. The height of the buckets over the height of the res are what regulate water depth. I can change it easily back to a true DWC top feed by taking the grow buckets off there stands and put them on the floor. Then the water would seek it's average height and return to more of a RDWC system.

The idea is the constant movement of the water and percolation over the rocks etc. help add more DO. Anyway, might be a total fail but so far the roots are branching and turning very white and are about 18" long already. Seen huge changes in the root color and appearance since the change about 1 week ago.

Thanks,

D.

 

[EventHorizan]

Sure, will post pictures shortly. I posted a thread early about it but got zero response. The reason I posted it is because I have been working with a physicist who specializes in plant culture and we are using a NFT like technique in this run. It is very much like RDWC (so I guess when I replied I didn't know how to refer to it other than RDWC) but water doesn't accumulate much in the 5 gallon grow buckets. They are top feed, bottom return line and the 600 GPH pump feeds (12 plants) drip rings in the top and the water percolates through hydroton and runs down the roots to the return. The pump and back up pump run 24/7. The height of the buckets over the height of the res are what regulate water depth. I can change it easily back to a true DWC top feed by taking the grow buckets off there stands and put them on the floor. Then the water would seek it's average height and return to more of a RDWC system.

The idea is the constant movement of the water and percolation over the rocks etc. help add more DO. Anyway, might be a total fail but so far the roots are branching and turning very white and are about 18" long already. Seen huge changes in the root color and appearance since the change about 1 week ago.

Thanks,

D.

I think I understand.. I wait too see your pics...

 

[DGP]

 

[DGP]

 

[EventHorizan]

View attachment 775801

Wow, you got a lot going on there. Its kinda hard to follow the route your water takes.
Well my recomendation for you is to get +life and give a feeding every Sun. It will fight off the bad bacteria, as well as break down the dead roots, and help bioavailabilty of NPK..
I have no idea if that will work the way you have it set up, but from what I see in the pic, your missing your control bucket, and instead are kinda using the top off res as one.. Are you familiar with what a control bucket is, and its function in rdwc... What you have is drip recirc.
Dwc Stands for
DEEP WATER CULTURE,
which means the roots are completely submerged in nutrient enriched RO water.
I have a chiller and it hardly ever runs, and I still use +life...
I would try +life before you spend hundreds on a chiller..
Of course you have to drop the h202, cause it will kill the +life...
I used to run waterfarms, but now run a UC so ive dabbled in both...
So If you got any questions feel free to ask.
If I dont know the answer, I will find someone who does...

 

[EventHorizan]

View attachment 775803

why are the plants all wet? And all that moisture on the stems will cause stem rot in a heartbeat. Your halos need to be bigger and pointed down so they dont spray the stem. Also I would put the drip on a timer, 10 mins every hr... If not im scared you will suffer stem rot, and quickly!

 

[EventHorizan]

If you look close at my halos they are down into the hydroton so they dont splash on the stem.. That was the first lesson I learned. I know you are using h202 but the stem getting wet like that is a no no IMHO.

 

[DGP]

The plant was only wet cause I took the dripper out to take the picture. Normally they are hidden under the coco mat that is preventing algae blooms.

I was doing 15 minutes on 45min off but I was warned about letting the roots dry out. However, I was still skeptical that they would dry out that fast. I have a timer capable of gong 15 on and 15 off but I don't have 24 hour resolution that will go any finer....digital ones only have 7 programs so every 10 is not possible with timers I currently have. Is there a timer that can do smaller increments out there? I looked around but didn't find any.

Just curious about your opinion: If DWC and RDWC have the roots in the water all the time then why would having moving water on the roots all the time matter or be a problem? Not being critical but just wondering.

Many times I don't get replies to posts so I really do appreciate the feedback.

D

 

[EventHorizan]

The plant was only wet cause I took the dripper out to take the picture. Normally they are hidden under the coco mat that is preventing algae blooms.

I was doing 15 minutes on 45min off but I was warned about letting the roots dry out. However, I was still skeptical that they would dry out that fast. I have a timer capable of gong 15 on and 15 off but I don't have 24 hour resolution that will go any finer....digital ones only have 7 programs so every 10 is not possible with timers I currently have. Is there a timer that can do smaller increments out there? I looked around but didn't find any.

Just curious about your opinion: If DWC and RDWC have the roots in the water all the time then why would having moving water on the roots all the time matter or be a problem? Not being critical but just wondering.

Many times I don't get replies to posts so I really do appreciate the feedback.

D

the water moving past the roots isnt for oxygen or DO for the plants, its to recirculate the solution thru the system and thru the control bucket where you will take ec and ph tests and add nutrients. Your missing the control bucket on your system is what I see.. Do u know what a control bucket is on a rdwc..
And your welcome brother, I like to help when I can..
Welcome to the farm by the way..

 

[DGP]

the water moving past the roots isnt for oxygen or DO for the plants, its to recirculate the solution thru the system and thru the control bucket where you will take ec and ph tests and add nutrients. Your missing the control bucket on your system is what I see.. Do u know what a control bucket is on a rdwc..
And your welcome brother, I like to help when I can..
Welcome to the farm by the way..

Hey, I appreciate it sooo much. Yes, I do know what a control bucket is and have seen them used with a float valve arrangement. I was thinking about it but with the drip system and NFT style flow I wasn't sure it was needed but if it is I will certainly add one, have all the stuff laying around to make the change minus a float valve.

Oh yeah, does the water moving and splashing over the hydroton add to DO levels. If not maybe I should abandon the experiment and go strictly RDWC. Been thinking about it anyway.

Thanks,

D

 

[EventHorizan]

Hey, I appreciate it sooo much. Yes, I do know what a control bucket is and have seen them used with a float valve arrangement. I was thinking about it but with the drip system and NFT style flow I wasn't sure it was needed but if it is I will certainly add one, have all the stuff laying around to make the change minus a float valve.

Oh yeah, does the water moving and splashing over the hydroton add to DO levels. If not maybe I should abandon the experiment and go strictly RDWC. Been thinking about it anyway.

Thanks,

D

Yes it actually does add some do when running down the roots, but the negative is stem rot.
Your system really needs you to bring all buckets down to the same level, and install a control bucket with a float valve that allows you to adjust it so you can maintain the water level even with bottom of netpots. Then you take that tote and sit it higher than the control bucket outside the tent/grow area that hooks to the float valve in the control bucket. Then we can use the top off tote to direct ph and EC. Once you set it up I can explain better how to read what your meter is saying by how much it moves in a day... It will tell you the ppm and ph you should set the top off res too.

 

[EventHorizan]

If not maybe I should abandon the experiment and go strictly RDWC. Been thinking about it anyway.

This was the exact conclusion I had too. And I went straight to rdwc. And been great ever since esp since I use +life. That is really my secret. Which isnt really a secret as alot of my mates use it..

 

[DGP]

My drip rings are pressed down into the hydroton, will that still be a risk for stem rot? Will be converting the system soon and in the mean time will go to 15 on 15 off or 30 off.....

D

 

[EventHorizan]

My drip rings are pressed down into the hydroton, will that still be a risk for stem rot? Will be converting the system soon and in the mean time will go to 15 on 15 off or 30 off.....

D

Yes, but if we can get them grown up with out stem rot then they should do fine. Its hard to say what will happen with your setup as its kinda unique. My gut says your heading for some problems but I dont have no data to back up my gut other than my own situations ive learned from in the past.