uc vs aeroponics

Discussion in 'Hydroponics' started by Door2theUnivers, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. Door2theUnivers

    Door2theUnivers New Farmer

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    thanks for the replys

    Since i already bought and built a knock off Aeroflo 60 site style i will see how it goes, plus UC is just expensive and more water consumption , lan lord will probablly take notice of that

    i went with the TNC GH pumps 1268gph , with ezclone sprayers hope i get good results!
     
  2. frophead

    frophead New Farmer

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    I hadn't heard that. Source? I'm just going by what's on their page. Says 125psi: http://www.mistking.com/home.php?cat=259 I can't seem to find anything to contradict that.

    I guess I could be missing something. Enlighten me?
     
  3. Jalisco Kid

    Jalisco Kid Well-Known Farmer

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    The pump operates at 75 psi,it can handle up to 125 max before it shits. JK
     
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  4. Luke Harrison

    Luke Harrison Farmer

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    I built my own uc system when i changed from my old DWC. It is perfect all i do to clean is close the vavle that leads back to the res and open the other and the pump pumps the water out to a drain at 980gal a min so very quickly around 30 sec to pump the res and the buckets down wich i have a six site system. I refill with water 3 times and it is perfectly clean.
     
  5. MediMary

    MediMary Farmer

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    I know your not big on pictures, but any chance of a quick one of your backup pump, sorry Im confused bud.
     
  6. john guest

    john guest Farmer

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    Everyone appears to be focused on redundancy being the key to reliability but with the right design route its very easy to overcome almost all of the issues with aero, including power outages and pump failure.
    My aero pump is unaffected by power outages, it delivers way more pressure than i can use and will last several lifetimes at least. Why buy two? :)
     
  7. MediMary

    MediMary Farmer

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    care to share some pics john, and a better explanation .
     
  8. Bobby Smith

    Bobby Smith New Farmer

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    John, not sure how long you've been growing, but any of us who've grown for more than a couple of years have had pumps go out.

    Do you have a link for this pump that will run for over 200 years, aka "several lifetimes"?

    I need a bunch of those magic pumps.........
     
  9. john guest

    john guest Farmer

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    I`m moving into air assisted now but i`m happy to tell you how i set up for high pressure aero. The single most important piece of kit to buy is an accumulator as it solves most of the issues on its own.

    Frophead made some interesting comments regarding using just a pump but unfortunately the theory doesn`t hold true when its put into practice.

    The pressure ramps up/down and a 2 second total misting would be impossible to achieve as the lines will tend to depressurize through the nozzles. In an ideal world a nozzle will create 50 micron droplets from 0-110psi but they don`t, so you can expect to see much larger sizes (200micron+) at the start and end of each misting cycle.

    An good analogy of that would be throwing a big can of paint at a canvas, then meticulously painting a masterpiece over the top and then throwing another big can of paint on top of that :)

    Buy an accumulator sized to run the system for a full week/2 weeks or whatever you`d like, use a 12v dc cycle timer, 12v solenoid and a 12v battery (no power outage issues with nute delivery).
    If you adopt my approach you`ll then visit your local professional plumbing tool supply company and buy the only pump you`ll ever need for this job..a "high-flow" hydrostatic test pump.

    These pumps are manually operated, they dont need any power and are more than capable of the task. I use a Rothenberger RP-50, it can deliver upto 60-bar (880psi) of pressure, 100psi is nothing.
    The flowrate is very low at just 45ml/stroke but it will put 0.75gal/min into the tank at any pressure at a very leisurely pace..it takes just 5 minutes a week.

    Anywho, use the pump to charge the accumulator to the required pressure (100psi, 200psi etc) and then disconnect the pump for a week. No pressure switch, no relief valve and no backup pump. If you need to expand, buy another accumulator..still only 10 minutes a week :)

    If you want to run it in a remote location, or in the middle of a field, just add a solar panel to charge the battery. Visit once a week to recharge the tank and then take the pump home with you.

    Epic post.. sorry about that but hopefully its enlightened a few aero sceptics :)

    Bobby, 200 years may not be unreasonable to be honest and you`ll only need the one.
    They seem pretty expensive items stateside (much cheaper here) note that the RP-30 is cheaper but it doesnt have as much flow as the RP-50 so it`ll take longer to charge the tank.

    http://www.rothenbergertools.us/20-RP30_RP50_&_RP60_Hydrostatic_Hydraulic_Test_Pumps.html
     
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  10. MediMary

    MediMary Farmer

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    Damn John, very intersting, you never know what to expect when someones first post was like yours. haha
    :sign0005:

    I look forward to learning more about this, hopefully you help some of us stoners out with a thread later on. welcome to the farm bro.
     
  11. john guest

    john guest Farmer

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    I forget to mention, if you get a clogged nozzle (apart from needing better filtering) you`ll have 60 bar on hand to unclog it. Drill and tap a thread that matches your nozzle threads in a 3/4" brass endstop fitting. Screw the endstop directly onto the end of the pump hose which is rated at 400bar 5800psi and give it a few pumps.
     
  12. Bobby Smith

    Bobby Smith New Farmer

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    John, got a link for your accumulator? And/or the rest of your system?

    Would love some more pics/details.

    Gonna construct an LP aero tree setup soon, but if HP is as easy as you make it sound maybe I'll go that route.
     
  13. MediMary

    MediMary Farmer

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    not a whole lot of HP aero growers out there, tree farmer has some good threads, but they look far from easy.
     
  14. john guest

    john guest Farmer

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    Hi Bobby
    I`m not stateside so it probably wouldn`t help much, shipping would be a killer. You should be able to find 12vdc solenoid valves and cycle timers easily enough, ebay is likely the best/cheapest bet. There are a couple of routes you can take for the accumulator, use a standard 8-10 bar tank or a higher pressure 16-bar tank.
    The 8-10bar is the easiest option. The 16-bar tank allows you to charge to 16-bar for more nute capacity along with a pressure reducer downstream of the tank to bring the output down to 90psi.
    I use a 16-bar tank and this type of reducer.
    http://www.caleffi.us/caleffi/en_IT/Site/Products/Catalogue/args/sezione/Family040_Inclined_pressure_reducing_valves/path/5~5338~5338-details/include/~applications~catalog~serie.jsp/index.sdo
     
  15. john guest

    john guest Farmer

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    There are some hp aero growers around, granted not that many as there are much easier ways to grow. Tree Farmer is way out in front in the premier league :)
     
  16. Bobby Smith

    Bobby Smith New Farmer

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    I have a few 120V solenoids; I assume those would be okay?

    And really I was looking for a link to the accumulator tank(s) and/or nozzles..........would something like this work?

    http://www.biocontrols.com/secure/shop/item.aspx?itemid=36

    So is it as simple (not to be confused with easy) as pump pressurizes accumulator tank, and a solenoid controls the outflow from the accumulator tank to the nozzles?

    Obviously if it was that easy than everyone would do it, but is it that simple? I've tried to read about HP aero before but there is a serious dearth of info online.

    Also, I assume you're running drain to waste? Or are you recirculating?
     
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  17. john guest

    john guest Farmer

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    It isn`t much more difficult than that.
    Run to waste is the best option, you get new nutes everytime and nothing gets back to contaminate the tank. I filter the nutes through a 1micron bag filter before they go into the tank. They can sit in a pressurized tank for at least 2 weeks without any change to ph or ec.

    120v gear will leave you back at the mercy of power outages. Most solenoid suppliers should be able to offer a range of coil voltages (6,12,24,120,240 etc) to go with the actual valve. The bonus here is you only need to buy a few spare coils (much cheaper than the whole unit) in case one packs up. I haven`t lost one so far but its a 2 minute fix if it ever happens.

    If you want to forego the 12v solenoids initially, you can use your valves or even the cold water inlet solenoids found in scrapped washing machines. They are generally rated for 10-16bar, assuming your washing machines are designed the same as ours :)

    Thats a silly price for a tank, i`d steer well clear.
    Well-saver tanks (lowes?) will do the job for a lot less money, get one with a safe working pressure of 125-150psi if you can. You can use RO pressure tanks at a push but i wouldn`t go higher than 90psi with those as they are generally only rated for 100psi. High quality accumulators are a lot more expensive, especially 16bar versions,but can be cheaper in the long term as they come with replaceable membranes and good quality fittings.
     
  18. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

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  19. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

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    nice name btw! I use several of your fittings

    Nice suggestion on the hydrostatic manual pump btw.

    However, even with your example, the line pressure after the accumulator solenoid will depressurize, so I'm not sure if the "paint bucket on a canvas" analogy will work, as it would still have the sample problem as non accumulator systems?

    From the wellsaver example, you gave, it seems to just be an Expansion Tank. These will work as well as accumulators? How do you drain the accumulator to change nutrients? (ie: gradual nutrient schedule). Do nutrients damage or get corrupted from the tanks?

    thanks, looks interesting!




     
  20. john guest

    john guest Farmer

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    Hi Squarepusher
    The well savers will certainly do the job, they have drawdown specs so they must incorporate air precharge.
    Its true the line will depressurize after the solenoid but the solenoid can be located right at the nozzle almost. Four good quality nozzles with dedicated solenoids can fill a very large chamber with mist in under a second without the pressure falling below 90psi. Finding solenoids at reasonable cost is the only issue.
    Nutes don`t degrade in a potable water tank under pressure, i left a tank for 2 weeks and took a sample daily, no shift in either ph or ec compared to the day it was charged. The very low ec of the nutes is less damaging to the tank than some well water :)
    If you want to change nutrients you can drain the tank or have several tanks for different nutes or plain ph`d water. Hooking different tanks into the system only takes a second with a manifold of JG taps. Turn one tap off, turn one tap on..done :)