I have a bit of situation... electrician/Hvac

[ttystikk]

ttystikk, you're the man. I appreciate all your help, but this is looking like more trouble than it's worth. I'm against putting my lights on a flip, and I don't want to get a bigger chiller than what I posted. Not to mention hooking up everything to the chiller when I only intended to cool the air, not the reservoirs, dehumidifiers and etc.

I'm just gonna rig up a tent and cut holes for a window a/c. It won't be efficient, but it should work. Or all just revisit the whole mini split thing, and see if I could figure out a stealth option for that.

Why are you 'against' running a flip schedule? I've found it to be more efficient in many ways. It need not be bigger, not significantly more complex, and there are few disadvantages. I'm interested in your reasons for not doing it?

 

[legaleyes13]

Why are you 'against' running a flip schedule? I've found it to be more efficient in many ways. It need not be bigger, not significantly more complex, and there are few disadvantages. I'm interested in your reasons for not doing it?

It's something that I've never done before and I'm a little intimidated by. I'm guessing I'd have to buy an a/c for both tents, which is no big deal, but I do not like the idea of co2 tanks. I hate them and never want to go back. I hate refilling them so often, especially in my current situation where I'll have neighbors in the same building. Plus I want to take advantage of running my lights exclusively at night, but that's not a major deal either.

Will I need a dehum for a flip or will the circulating of air from tent to tent cover that? And what exactly are the benefits of running on flip, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[ttystikk]

It's something that I've never done before and I'm a little intimidated by. I'm guessing I'd have to buy an a/c for both tents, which is no big deal, but I do not like the idea of co2 tanks. I hate them and never want to go back. I hate refilling them so often, especially in my current situation where I'll have neighbors in the same building. Plus I want to take advantage of running my lights exclusively at night, but that's not a major deal either.

Will I need a dehum for a flip or will the circulating of air from tent to tent cover that? And what exactly are the benefits of running on flip, if you don't mind me asking?

AC or chilling will dehuey. AC might dehuey too much, from what others say here. I've had great luck with a chiller by simply plumbing both rooms with heat exchangers and running them all constantly- the fans that blow room air through these heat exchangers are what are controlled by your environmental controller. Ideally, you will need two controllers, etc, but for now you can just use two power controllers timed opposite one another. All else can be handled more or less manually... and that's the beauty of a flip setup, by the way; loads are always about the same, so temps never have a chance to fluctuate much, or far. It's what's known as 'fault tolerant', which means that once you get the water temp right in your chiller system, everything will basically run itself.

If you don't have tanks, how will you add CO² to your room? Burning propane is far more dangerous than CO², and unless you're running a small brewery, no container of fermenting materials is going to keep up with the needs of a healthy grow op under lots of light!

 

[legaleyes13]

I

AC or chilling will dehuey. AC might dehuey too much, from what others say here. I've had great luck with a chiller by simply plumbing both rooms with heat exchangers and running them all constantly- the fans that blow room air through these heat exchangers are what are controlled by your environmental controller. Ideally, you will need two controllers, etc, but for now you can just use two power controllers timed opposite one another. All else can be handled more or less manually... and that's the beauty of a flip setup, by the way; loads are always about the same, so temps never have a chance to fluctuate much, or far. It's what's known as 'fault tolerant', which means that once you get the water temp right in your chiller system, everything will basically run itself.

If you don't have tanks, how will you add CO² to your room? Burning propane is far more dangerous than CO², and unless you're running a small brewery, no container of fermenting materials is going to keep up with the needs of a healthy grow op under lots of light!

I'm gonna be using a co2 genie, which is my main reason for not doing a flip. It would be too big for a 5x10. I'm doing an undercurrent grow so I'm not so concerned with keeping the res temp low. I can take care of that with bottles of ice if it comes to it. If I were to go the chiller route, it would be 100% dedicated to cooling the air (4,000 watts unvented, Co2 genie). I'm willing to buy a 1-1/2 hp chiller. I just need to know how many heat exchangers I would need for this.

I'm probably just gonna do the 10x10 tent thing, which I really wanted to avoid because it's gonna get cramped in there with 4 4x4 tables.

 

[ttystikk]

I

I'm gonna be using a co2 genie, which is my main reason for not doing a flip. It would be too big for a 5x10. I'm doing an undercurrent grow so I'm not so concerned with keeping the res temp low. I can take care of that with bottles of ice if it comes to it. If I were to go the chiller route, it would be 100% dedicated to cooling the air (4,000 watts unvented, Co2 genie). I'm willing to buy a 1-1/2 hp chiller. I just need to know how many heat exchangers I would need for this.

I'm probably just gonna do the 10x10 tent thing, which I really wanted to avoid because it's gonna get cramped in there with 4 4x4 tables.

The undercurrent grow makes a chiller mandatory- take our experienced word for it. The way I see it, you need a pump and a six way manifold; four 8" Icebox heat exchangers- two for each side of a double 5 x 10' flip- and one more for each of your two systems in each tent. Now, you can run each tent a month out of phase with the other and get a perpetual harvest going. I go one more step by splitting each tent in half, scaling up to 8' x 8' and 4 kW for each resultant zone and get a crop every 16 days. It's like clockwork, lets you schedule everything...

 

[pussOGbrah]

dude. disaster waiting to happen, or financial ruin .

i dont care if u think im a dick but if your this clueless about setting up a small room u should dial back the watts and learn these important things first then go bigger.

youve grown before. big whoop any retard can water plants in a fully setup room. being a grower means knowing how to do the hard stuff.

 

[legaleyes13]

The undercurrent grow makes a chiller mandatory- take our experienced word for it. The way I see it, you need a pump and a six way manifold; four 8" Icebox heat exchangers- two for each side of a double 5 x 10' flip- and one more for each of your two systems in each tent. Now, you can run each tent a month out of phase with the other and get a perpetual harvest going. I go one more step by splitting each tent in half, scaling up to 8' x 8' and 4 kW for each resultant zone and get a crop every 16 days. It's like clockwork, lets you schedule everything...View attachment 331242

Oh sorry man, that was a typo. I'm NOT running an undercurrent system. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[legaleyes13]

dude. disaster waiting to happen, or financial ruin .

i dont care if u think im a dick but if your this clueless about setting up a small room u should dial back the watts and learn these important things first then go bigger.

youve grown before. big whoop any retard can water plants in a fully setup room. being a grower means knowing how to do the hard stuff.

Cool, man. I don't think you're a dick, but you're definitely off base. Setting up the room is pretty straight forward. Setting up the room as efficiently and stealthily as possible not so much. So I came here looking for advice, knowing that I always had a tent and window a/c to fall back on. Wasn't able to find a solution with the help of Natural and ttystikk, so guess what...? I'm falling back on my tent and window a/c setup.

But if you got some constructive advice about mini splits, chillers or whatever feel free to feel me in.

 

[pussOGbrah]

ok i already feel bad posting that and i kno ur just trying to make it work, this lifestyle can be frustrating we've all been there.

i dont know exaclty what u want to know, but ill try to help a lil bit. feel free to ask me specific q's i do have alot of experience doing what u want to do.

I have run a 2ton excel air stealth mini split in an apartment. 5k room, other room was a veg/ac room. i had the air handler in the veg room ducted (supply and return) into the flower room. the condenser and outside unit (the big outdoor fan thing) were placed inside a 4x8 tent. The tent had intakes and exhausted up into attic using a couple 10'' maxfans. (my opinion now is a single 12 is better but whatever it works with 2 10's)

this worked pretty good but even a stealthed out a/c with lots of sound damping under the condenser with make lots of bassy noise so if you have neighbors that could be a problem.

I've also done the window ac thing before using a wood box around the back. in your situation a good way to vent it is buy a 4x4 tent, cut a big square hole in it near the bottom. exhaust into tent with front of ac sticking out into ur room. put a small scrubber and at least a 10'' fan exhausting out of the room.

as for electrical, its so simple. But if you are clueless it will seem like the hardest thing ever. The lowes electrical books they sell will cover anything you ever need to know, just be careful, reread, and ask q's here if you still dont understand. I would build a subpanel (60 amp) off your main panel and locate it in your apt. then run extra circuits, circuit for AC and your light controller off of that.

Also, unless you have to because you live in a hot area, i will never run a sealed room again. total waste of cash idk what anyone says. AC's are expensive to run and Co2 is only good for vegging which builds good structure therby increasing yeilds.

trust me sealed, unsealed same strain of OG no real difference in final product except better vegging and consistent room temps. If you dial in a unsealed room you can easily hit the same yeilds and quality as sealed but for a lot less$$$$$

hope this helps or maybe gives you some ideas

 

[legaleyes13]

ok i already feel bad posting that and i kno ur just trying to make it work, this lifestyle can be frustrating we've all been there.

i dont know exaclty what u want to know, but ill try to help a lil bit. feel free to ask me specific q's i do have alot of experience doing what u want to do.

I have run a 2ton excel air stealth mini split in an apartment. 5k room, other room was a veg/ac room. i had the air handler in the veg room ducted (supply and return) into the flower room. the condenser and outside unit (the big outdoor fan thing) were placed inside a 4x8 tent. The tent had intakes and exhausted up into attic using a couple 10'' maxfans. (my opinion now is a single 12 is better but whatever it works with 2 10's)

this worked pretty good but even a stealthed out a/c with lots of sound damping under the condenser with make lots of bassy noise so if you have neighbors that could be a problem.

I've also done the window ac thing before using a wood box around the back. in your situation a good way to vent it is buy a 4x4 tent, cut a big square hole in it near the bottom. exhaust into tent with front of ac sticking out into ur room. put a small scrubber and at least a 10'' fan exhausting out of the room.

as for electrical, its so simple. But if you are clueless it will seem like the hardest thing ever. The lowes electrical books they sell will cover anything you ever need to know, just be careful, reread, and ask q's here if you still dont understand. I would build a subpanel (60 amp) off your main panel and locate it in your apt. then run extra circuits, circuit for AC and your light controller off of that.

Also, unless you have to because you live in a hot area, i will never run a sealed room again. total waste of cash idk what anyone says. AC's are expensive to run and Co2 is only good for vegging which builds good structure therby increasing yeilds.

trust me sealed, unsealed same strain of OG no real difference in final product except better vegging and consistent room temps. If you dial in a unsealed room you can easily hit the same yeilds and quality as sealed but for a lot less$$$$$

hope this helps or maybe gives you some ideas

Thanks this definitely helps. I'm gonna pass on the condenser inside the apartment thing, but I'll figure a way to vent the a/c and I'll probably use your method. I'm on the 1st floor of the duplex, so venting into the attic isn't a possibility. Venting out of the room will also be tough, considering I'd have to drill a hole in the wall or vent out of the window which would be sketchy. If I can't vent the a/c I'll just let have the front of the a/c blow into the tent with the back end protruding into the bedroom. It's not the greatest but it will get the job done (I've done it before).

I'm not really worried about the electrical either, maybe I should be but I wouldn't know. I'm gonna have an electrician come in and install a 220v 30 amp circuit. I can run everything else off of the circuits that are already in the room. Thanks again.

 

[Natural]

do you have forced air hvac system and if so do you share it?

 

[pussOGbrah]

yeah not having an attic really complicates things haha. but its still doable there is always a way.

Einstien has a good quote that really applies well to growing. "make things as simple as possible, but no simpler."

Also, if you are looking for an electrical guy, ac, whatever even a consultant, i would ask someone at your dro store who isnt a new employee. Especially if your in a med state, these guys/stores often know pros who keep their lips shut. Something to think about.

also undercurrents suck in many different ways and i dont why anyone would torture themselves trying to grow plants in those things just go coco or soil or even flood tables. no chillers needed, same end results.

 

[legaleyes13]

yeah not having an attic really complicates things haha. but its still doable there is always a way.

Einstien has a good quote that really applies well to growing. "make things as simple as possible, but no simpler."

Also, if you are looking for an electrical guy, ac, whatever even a consultant, i would ask someone at your dro store who isnt a new employee. Especially if your in a med state, these guys/stores often know pros who keep their lips shut. Something to think about.

also undercurrents suck in many different ways and i dont why anyone would torture themselves trying to grow plants in those things just go coco or soil or even flood tables. no chillers needed, same end results.

I'm not running and undercurrent system, that was a typo. I'm running NFT. But yeah, I'm gonna have to find a way around the attic thing.

 

[legaleyes13]

do you have forced air hvac system and if so do you share it?

No forced air hvac.

 

[Reebs]

also undercurrents suck in many different ways and i dont why anyone would torture themselves trying to grow plants in those things just go coco or soil or even flood tables. no chillers needed, same end results.

i agree with this to some extent. i wouldn't say they "suck" persay but there is more to them. i do flood tables and its works great for me, but i have investigated the undercurrent systems kinda in between the MPB buckets. if i have a 20x20x8-10 room, i would deff look into an undercurrent system, or custom build my own for the fun of it and the knowledge that you know every little inch of your system.

Legaleyes13- have you thought about getting a portable AC unit? like one that sits in the room? they only need to be vented to the outside threw a 6-8" duct off the back. they are a little more $$ but the "Stealth" factor is great since it would be IN the room. the only downside i ever found with these portables is that they suck the CO2 outta the room if your adding it. the only way i really found around that when i first started and had a few portables was to either get a fuzz logic cotroller or just not using CO2 until i had $$ for a better option.

a second thought too, if you have a veg space near by, use that room as the cooling chamber with the portable AC and then exchange air from veg to flower. there is also that one member on here who made these AC type things out of a car radiator and an inline fan and after he figured it out he replaced 2 Ton's o AC with a few around the room.

my actual advise, make due with what you got and keep it simple until you save enough $$ to get a House with a basement or a garage or a big spare bedroom. i fucked around with tents while my current room was being built out and setup, i had 4K in an 8x8 tent and NO AC and managed to keep temps at 82-83 with CO2. and RH was never above %50 tops. usually %30-%40. It was summer time and hot too so i had to use 2 8'' inline fans for the 4 cool tubes, 8'' inline for exhaust, 6'' intake on temp controller, and a 12'' inline sitting on a carbon filter. lol i also had 2 16'' circulation fans on either side, there was so much air movement and air exchange that the tent never had time to build up any heat. pretty sure i wasted CO2 that round aswell since i was moving so much air threw the tent anyways, but all was good.

my point is that i understand the need for tent grows and space/location restrictions which call for a tent, but if your really trying to grow some dank and not pull your hair out along the way, make it a goal to only be in the tents temporarily. now, i'm not saying that it can't be done, as i know several farmers here who use tents IN a room IN there house, just saying my expirience was a big hastle initially and i worried about it every day for 2 months.

 

[legaleyes13]

i agree with this to some extent. i wouldn't say they "suck" persay but there is more to them. i do flood tables and its works great for me, but i have investigated the undercurrent systems kinda in between the MPB buckets. if i have a 20x20x8-10 room, i would deff look into an undercurrent system, or custom build my own for the fun of it and the knowledge that you know every little inch of your system.

Legaleyes13- have you thought about getting a portable AC unit? like one that sits in the room? they only need to be vented to the outside threw a 6-8" duct off the back. they are a little more $$ but the "Stealth" factor is great since it would be IN the room. the only downside i ever found with these portables is that they suck the CO2 outta the room if your adding it. the only way i really found around that when i first started and had a few portables was to either get a fuzz logic cotroller or just not using CO2 until i had $$ for a better option.

a second thought too, if you have a veg space near by, use that room as the cooling chamber with the portable AC and then exchange air from veg to flower. there is also that one member on here who made these AC type things out of a car radiator and an inline fan and after he figured it out he replaced 2 Ton's o AC with a few around the room.

my actual advise, make due with what you got and keep it simple until you save enough $$ to get a House with a basement or a garage or a big spare bedroom. i fucked around with tents while my current room was being built out and setup, i had 4K in an 8x8 tent and NO AC and managed to keep temps at 82-83 with CO2. and RH was never above %50 tops. usually %30-%40. It was summer time and hot too so i had to use 2 8'' inline fans for the 4 cool tubes, 8'' inline for exhaust, 6'' intake on temp controller, and a 12'' inline sitting on a carbon filter. lol i also had 2 16'' circulation fans on either side, there was so much air movement and air exchange that the tent never had time to build up any heat. pretty sure i wasted CO2 that round aswell since i was moving so much air threw the tent anyways, but all was good.

my point is that i understand the need for tent grows and space/location restrictions which call for a tent, but if your really trying to grow some dank and not pull your hair out along the way, make it a goal to only be in the tents temporarily. now, i'm not saying that it can't be done, as i know several farmers here who use tents IN a room IN there house, just saying my expirience was a big hastle initially and i worried about it every day for 2 months.

Thanks for the response, man. Happy to hear that you've had experience w/ tents of that size. The largest tent I've ever used was a 4x8 and only used it for small veg plants, so it was fine. If I end up going the tent route, I know I'm gonna hate it while it lasts, but like you said, I would only use if for a short while.

I think I'm just gonna end up sectioning off a bedroom with plywood and cut a square hole in the wood for a window a/c. I'd have 4 16'' oscillating fans in there moving air like crazy, and I think the a/c and fans would handle the heat just fine though my hoods aren't vented.

I appreciate your response, especially considering it was rooted in experience.

 

[ttystikk]

Thanks for the response, man. Happy to hear that you've had experience w/ tents of that size. The largest tent I've ever used was a 4x8 and only used it for small veg plants, so it was fine. If I end up going the tent route, I know I'm gonna hate it while it lasts, but like you said, I would only use if for a short while.

I think I'm just gonna end up sectioning off a bedroom with plywood and cut a square hole in the wood for a window a/c. I'd have 4 16'' oscillating fans in there moving air like crazy, and I think the a/c and fans would handle the heat just fine though my hoods aren't vented.

I appreciate your response, especially considering it was rooted in experience.

The choice of chiller vs AC has a lot of facets. It is possible to setup a chiller system in a rental, but it's easier at your own home. The fact that a chiller makes having to actively cool your RDWC an afterthought is very nice, but it's the icing on the chiller efficiency cake.

You see, when most people set up a grow op, they buy one piece of equipment to do every climate job. Sounds logical enough- except that most of these separate pieces end up fighting one another! If you run AC, you will need either a humidifier- which AC will dry out, or a dehuey, which spits out hot air that the AC must cool. An RDWC chiller spits out heat the AC must then work again to get out of the room. The advantage of centralized chilling is that it combines all three of these functions together in one harmonious whole such that air is cooled, humidity its controlled and hydroponics systems actively cooled all at once, without efficiency losses, and all the heat is dealt with just once- and pumped as far away from the room as necessary, since water carries heat- or the conspicuous lack of it- a very long way compared to air. Yes, a minisplit will also work, but every time you move it, you need an hvac tech. With a properly designed chilling system, you can service or replace most parts of it without ever taking the whole system offline, which is a huge relief, take my word for it!

 

[ttystikk]

Speaking of RDWC systems, I can say I've built a few. My advice is to decide what size bulkhead and piping you want, then be prepared to use it over and over as you start with small sites and swap them out to get bigger... and bigger... lol

I decided years ago, after watching Current Culture's troubles with uniseals, to go with 1" bulkhead fittings. At the time, I did not know how to source things for cheaper than hydro store prices so I sank almost $3 apiece for enough to build over 70 sites. Thanks to that decision and some later ones to buy and keep a bunch of different length pieces of 1" hose, which lets me reconfigure my systems on the fly, between runs and still keep on schedule.

Currently, I'm switching from 5 gallon bucket sites to 27 gallon tubs, and from 12 smaller sites to only 4 big ones per 8 x 8' blooming zone. How can 1" bulkheads feed such big tubs? Double up! I used two inlets and two outlets- which coincidentally matches up with the rows of buckets each tub is replacing. In addition, I used a 'left hand/ right hand'(trademsrked) design strategy to create an offset between the inlets and the outlets, thereby setting up a slowly swirling circulating flow in the tub, helping nutrients get to the roots and helping the tub stay well mixed and oxygenated.

 

[reloader]

Man you guys make it out to be so complicated, I'm running 2,400 (4 6oo's) watts in a tent. I use a 8' ducting and filter to suck air in and out through my lights.(doubles as exhaust, which I run through my attic out the ridge vent using 2 720 cfm fans. I use a dedicated bedroom with a Powerbox 7500 with 240v & 60 amps (gives me 6 timed 10 amp 120v sockets), & I put my tent over the heat/ac vent in the room. I simply cut a hole out in the bottom of my tent over the vent and boom instant ac. I live in a cold area so I just have intake from a inline fan vented from a window pulling in air. In the Winter time I can completely control the temp by how far I have the window open that I am sucking air from, & Summer I have the ac on the floor. I believe fresh air from outside is important & carries a lot of nutrients, & I run it in my tent 24/7. I know you said you don't have central air, but I was just trying to explain a simple way that works easy, without chillers & standing a/c units etc..

 

[ttystikk]

Man you guys make it out to be so complicated, I'm running 2,400 (4 6oo's) watts in a tent. I use a 8' ducting and filter to suck air in and out through my lights.(doubles as exhaust, which I run through my attic out the ridge vent using 2 720 cfm fans. I use a dedicated bedroom with a Powerbox 7500 with 240v & 60 amps (gives me 6 timed 10 amp 120v sockets), & I put my tent over the heat/ac vent in the room. I simply cut a hole out in the bottom of my tent over the vent and boom instant ac. I live in a cold area so I just have intake from a inline fan vented from a window pulling in air. In the Winter time I can completely control the temp by how far I have the window open that I am sucking air from, & Summer I have the ac on the floor. I believe fresh air from outside is important & carries a lot of nutrients, & I run it in my tent 24/7. I know you said you don't have central air, but I was just trying to explain a simple way that works easy, without chillers & standing a/c units etc..

You have simply replaced the separate cooling plant in our conversation with your central AC. This doesn't reduce total system complexity, but it is more convenient for you to hijack a floor vent for your tent! Nice setup, by the way.