Jack's nutrients question

[GanjaAL]

Anyone using RO??? Just wondering if you have to add most if you are using RO water with the 3, 2, 1 mix.

 

[ttystikk]

Hmmm... causes of weak trichome formation include weak light, poor nutes, light leaks, low temps, bugs, either no CO² or way too much... I don't see any of these being the issue, but it never hurts to walk through the basics again just in case.

 

[ttystikk]

Anyone using RO??? Just wondering if you have to add most if you are using RO water with the 3, 2, 1 mix.

YES, add 5ml/gal of Botanicare's Cal-Mag, or the equivalent. I tried bumping the 3-2-1 but I must not have done my conversions correctly because I kept getting Ca deficiencies.

Do not add MOST to correct a Ca deficiency, correct it directly. MOST is for micronutrients and Ca isn't a micro; plants need almost as much of it as they do N.

 

[splakdawg]

Hmmm... causes of weak trichome formation include weak light, poor nutes, light leaks, low temps, bugs, either no CO² or way too much... I don't see any of these being the issue, but it never hurts to walk through the basics again just in case.

Bro I'm running jacks at 1000 ppm no signs of bugs don't run co2 and plants aren't getting any unless its provided by my window ac. And cleared up all light leaks even my ladies that were spitting balls have stopped completely since closing up all leaks. I'm just really puzzled cause I have strains like white urkle x u.d.d that are just showing very little amounts of trichs. Some phenos of dolphin Dick are starting to get encrusted tho

 

[ttystikk]

Bro I'm running jacks at 1000 ppm no signs of bugs don't run co2 and plants aren't getting any unless its provided by my window ac. And cleared up all light leaks even my ladies that were spitting balls have stopped completely since closing up all leaks. I'm just really puzzled cause I have strains like white urkle x u.d.d that are just showing very little amounts of trichs. Some phenos of dolphin Dick are starting to get encrusted tho

You just recently sealed up your light leaks- it's going to be noticeable, since plants build up trichomes throughout the course of the book cycle, not just near the end.

 

[splakdawg]

You just recently sealed up your light leaks- it's going to be noticeable, since plants build up trichomes throughout the course of the book cycle, not just near the end.

I caught the leaks a week and a half in. The culprit was my ac vent, it was reflecting light in. I have to manually turn it on and off at the beginning and end of each light cycle.

 

[GanjaAL]

YES, add 5ml/gal of Botanicare's Cal-Mag, or the equivalent. I tried bumping the 3-2-1 but I must not have done my conversions correctly because I kept getting Ca deficiencies.

Do not add MOST to correct a Ca deficiency, correct it directly. MOST is for micronutrients and Ca isn't a micro; plants need almost as much of it as they do N.

Do you have problems with the rez going bad with the calmag? I will be using the 3,2,1 for jacks will calmag still be needed?

 

[ttystikk]

Do you have problems with the rez going bad with the calmag? I will be using the 3,2,1 for jacks will calmag still be needed?

No problems with my res with any of these products. Cover an ebb n flood res, as it's not supposed to be living.

Yes, with low EC water or RO, you'll need the Cal-Mag along with the Jacks 3-2-1. It's replacing natural water hardness.

 

[Bangarang]

My tap is an EC 0.6 and when i mixed my 3-2-1 the EC was 2.0. I mixed a 40 gallon drum with 120 Hydro 80 Calnit 40 Epsom. Why would the EC be so high?

 

[ttystikk]

My tap is an EC 0.6 and when i mixed my 3-2-1 the EC was 2.0. I mixed a 40 gallon drum with 120 Hydro 80 Calnit 40 Epsom. Why would the EC be so high?

Because what no one told you was that the 3-2-1 is a RATIO, not an exact recipe. You haven't screwed the pooch, just dilute the solution until you get to your desired EC, then pH to taste. It has to be this way, because everyone runs a different EC, based on their preferences and growing style. It gets repeated, but not everywhere, so you must've slipped through the cracks on this one. Hope the next guy sees this, too!

 

[splakdawg]

Because what no one told you was that the 3-2-1 is a RATIO, not an exact recipe. You haven't screwed the pooch, just dilute the solution until you get to your desired EC, then pH to taste. It has to be this way, because everyone runs a different EC, based on their preferences and growing style. It gets repeated, but not everywhere, so you must've slipped through the cracks on this one. Hope the next guy sees this, too!

Damn I need to grab a ec meter now. I have no idea where my ec is at.

 

[ttystikk]

Damn I need to grab a ec meter now. I have no idea where my ec is at.

High EC and low RH leads to burn.
Low EC with high RH leads to deficiencies.

Thus, match EC to RH for good results. For best results, run high RH, high EC- and then supplement with CO², FTW!!

 

[cctt]

Also its more important that the Jacks Pro and CalciNit be used in equal amounts than it is important that they be used at 2.5 grams per gallon. Its the ratio that is optimal, not so much the quantity or concentration. The 2.5-2.5 .25-.25 'ratio' application was just what I would start out with on the typical indoor 1000w setup, it could just as easily have been a 2.0-2.0-.20-.20 ratio or a 1.5-1.5-.15-.15 ratio. The point is that Jacks Pro and the CalciNit should be provided at equal amounts while the potassium silicate and ammonium sulphate/phosphate be provided at 1/10 (10%) the strength and also at equal amounts. This provides a more optimal nutrient profile than the popular 3-2-1 formula.

I'm now entering week 6 of flower with this formula. So far, so good! The first thing I am noticing is that the petioles are a bit red before the addition of (NH4)2HPO4 - I think they may want the extra P earlier - even in veg! I will experiment with this later on.

I am now considering what the finish will look like. As I read your formula it looks like I'm to use 1:1:0.1 (Jack's:CaNO3:K2SiO3) for the final few weeks. However, I'm considering the possibility of reducing the CaNO3 to finish. My thinking is 1) Having dropped the extra ammonical N it makes sense to reduce Ca as well to maintain the ~0.8:1 Ca:N ratio and 2) the final few weeks of growth do not require very much N.
Perhaps this would be the appropriate time for the 3:2 Jack's:CaNO3 ratio that everyone here seems to like.
So far I've seen no issues at all from the complete lack of MgSO4 in the mix, so it seems you're correct that Jack's is a sufficient source.

Very interested in hearing any thoughts you have on the matter.

 

[splakdawg]

Anyone out there getting clawing?
My white urkle cross is getting clawing talons like leaves. I flushed em lastnight hopefully that will bring her back. Is this a case of too much nitrogen? And if so how can I adjust the jacks recipe to compensate?

 

[splakdawg]

Ok checked on the ladies and it seems their symptoms are getting worse since flushing em last night. The girls are turn shiny dark green and now even the large fans are starting to twist plz help

 

[GR33NL3AF]

What media are you in?
The claw is usually an indication of too much N, twisting could be pH...are you checking runoff?
I would reduce what you're feeding them rather then completely cut it out, especially if you're in coco.

 

[splakdawg]

What media are you in?
The claw is usually an indication of too much N, twisting could be pH...are you checking runoff?
I would reduce what you're feeding them rather then completely cut it out, especially if you're in coco.

Yes I'm in coco and I messed up by so call flushing with a solution of 500 ppm and then hitting them with a half a gal of regular strength solution. I was planning on flushing again tonight with a lower dosage. And then hitting them half stren, is this good or what do u guys recommend?

 

[splakdawg]

And yes I got Ph runoff coming out at 5.8

 

[dizzlekush]

I'm now entering week 6 of flower with this formula. So far, so good! The first thing I am noticing is that the petioles are a bit red before the addition of (NH4)2HPO4 - I think they may want the extra P earlier - even in veg! I will experiment with this later on.

I am now considering what the finish will look like. As I read your formula it looks like I'm to use 1:1:0.1 (Jack's:CaNO3:K2SiO3) for the final few weeks. However, I'm considering the possibility of reducing the CaNO3 to finish. My thinking is 1) Having dropped the extra ammonical N it makes sense to reduce Ca as well to maintain the ~0.8:1 Ca:N ratio and 2) the final few weeks of growth do not require very much N.
Perhaps this would be the appropriate time for the 3:2 Jack's:CaNO3 ratio that everyone here seems to like.
So far I've seen no issues at all from the complete lack of MgSO4 in the mix, so it seems you're correct that Jack's is a sufficient source.

Very interested in hearing any thoughts you have on the matter.

If the red petioles are accompanied by increased chlorosis of the bottom foliage than it could be a deficiency any of the major macronutrients aside from Ca and S. If the red petioles are not accompanied by lower foliage chlorosis than it probably a minor temperature issue, could be a sudden change in temperature or too high of temperatures at night.

The reduction in calcium nitrate is (anecdotally) suggested for improved flavor of final product, however your assertion that the plant requires less N during the last stages of growth is AFAIK, incorrect, unless there's been an over-application of N and an accumulation in the medium or plant tissue. As along as the plant is growing (increasing dry biomass) and producing the desired metabolites (both primary and secondary), N will be required in greater amounts over any other element aside from possibly K by small amounts. Always.

That being said, cannabis is way more sensitive to N overapplication than any other macro nutrient aside from Mg. Cannabis can handle huge overapplications of K Ca and S without showing any toxicity, while N will cause significant toxicity. Perhaps your assertion that you plant needs less N during the later stages is correct, however as I see it, if correct, it implies that your plant needs fertilizer in general as opposed to less N in relation to other nutrients.

As far as as following any specific nutrient ratio (e.g. N:Ca), I don't think ratios or relative values are all that important as opposed to the absolute amounts of nutrient applied. Again that being said, fertilization with N causes a softening of plant tissue and fertilization with Ca, B and Si causes a toughening of the tissue so the Ca:N ratio does have a very real effect on basic plant tissue strength, but following a o.8 ratio is more to keep Ca high if N is high so tissue doesn't soften excessively, not that you should necessarily drop Ca if dropping N. Those following Albrecht ratios often apply more Ca than any other nutrient and their plants do just fine.

 

[cctt]

Thanks again for a well thought out answer and some new information I haven't yet heard. I'm a bit unclear about how a couple pieces of advice you've given are compatible though-

Also its more important that the Jacks Pro and CalciNit be used in equal amounts than it is important that they be used at 2.5 grams per gallon. Its the ratio that is optimal, not so much the quantity or concentration.

As far as as following any specific nutrient ratio (e.g. N:Ca), I don't think ratios or relative values are all that important as opposed to the absolute amounts of nutrient applied.