Smallzz's 5 Steps to bigger outdoor plants

[Smallzz]

I thought MJ roots (if they have choice) tend to grow out more laterally than deep. In my Greenhouse (and this is only my observation) even though I dug all my beds down 3 feet the roots seem to spread out a lot more than they go deep. . Thoughts?

I think they do grow out more laterally, but having sufficient soil depth capacity is valuable too?

And a good point made by ttystick as well.

 

[Blaze]

I thought MJ roots (if they have choice) tend to grow out more laterally than deep. In my Greenhouse (and this is only my observation) even though I dug all my beds down 3 feet the roots seem to spread out a lot more than they go deep. . Thoughts?

They definitely prefer width to depth, and will grow larger in wider beds rather than deeper beds if the volume is the same. The feeder roots - which are the roots you really want to encourage - are mostly in the top few 6" or so of soil. Cannabis is an annual, it naturally grows a wide but shallow root system if it has the space to spread out. When I dig up my beds at the end of the season I usually fin about 70% of the roots in the top 6", with the other 30% or so at 6"-18". I usually find very few if any roots past 18"-24". I have drains 1.5' below the bottom of my bed so I can always see and make sure that the soil is soaked all teh way through, as the drains will begging to flow, so I know it is not because the roots are not soaked. I used to go 3' deep for years too, but it just never made any difference in yield or size from what I saw, and there were few roots that ever went that deep even if the soil was soaked that far down. It was just wasted time and soil to dig holes or build beds that deep.

Something else that really proved it to me as well was seeing my friends garden years back. This was a pair of 16' tall Blue Satellite x Killer Queen clones that was grown in soil 10" deep:

 

[kolah]

I too examine my roots when harvest is over and never found them going past 12-16" deep...and my watering regimen is a pretty good soaking and then I let it dry up to let those roots stretch (and grow) as they seek for the water. Interesting to note with my 3 foot deep beds is that the roots choose to grow out laterally and inter-twine with the other plants roots instead of heading straight down where there are no roots at all. (btw, my beds are filled with nice loamy compost soil with quite a bit of vermiculite and in no way is the soil too hard for the roots to penetrate into)

Forget to mention that my biggest plants were only about 6 1/2 feet tall. (due to short grow season here in CO)

I'll do some different things next year for a comparison.

 

[ttystikk]

Great info here guys, really liking the in depth discussion. Keep digging until we get to the root of the matter, and all that. No, seriously! I'm taking notes for the outdoor garden in my future, perhaps as soon as spring time.

 

[Smallzz]

I'd love to test this somehow, maybe a back to back grow one year of a 2 foot raised bed, a 3 foot raised bed, and a 4 foot raised bed. Same strain, same nutrients, same soil, etc etc. When and if I ever get the chance to do this, I'll make sure to report my findings to the rest of you guys!

 

[kolah]

right on, Smallz...also it would be cool to do a plant in a one foot deep bed as well (kinda like one of those plastic kiddie pools.

 

[ttystikk]

right on, Smallz...also it would be cool to do a plant in a one foot deep bed as well (kinda like one of those plastic kiddie pools.

Using a kiddie pool would make it different from the other beds, in that it enforces a total separation between prepared soil and the earth underneath. Drainage would also need to be addressed. If you're just making a comparison for the sake of visualisation, please ignore the above, lol

The plastic pool approach effectively means that you could grow on a parking lot or other inhospitable surface- and even retain the ability to tow it around if needed.

 

[Smallzz]

What I would like to do, personally, is dig a Freedom drain :p, and build the soil beds back to back about ten feet apart along the Freedom drain so that I can account for proper drainage as well. If I can't build the Freedom drain because of whatever circumstance, then I'd just make sure that they were all on the same relative surface.

 

[jaredman]

if you do a comparison grow you would have to do it in the same year so that the differences in climate and weather patterns don't skew the testing. Things can vary so much from year to year it would have to be in the same year to be accurate. The main reason I don't like smart pots are the reasons being brought up right now. I think the ultimate setup for a huge plant is eighteen inches of soil in the ground with good drainage ie. half inch pumice, six inches deep, in a circular hole twelve to fifteen feet in diameter. I have seen plants consistently grow roots to the edges of this and beyond. The yield on these plants and the size is amazing as well like 12-15 units

 

[Smallzz]

I would of course do it in the same year so that weather conditions don't skew the testing. I'd hate to go through all the trouble of reducing variables in everything else and then give them (the plants) two different weather patterns!

 

[Bannacis]

The thing with smart pots, is the for the peeps that don't have the luxury of digging holes, or their soil or land is not suitable.
They work great, we know you don't like em... You have good points, but you don't need to be an ass (pro) when replying. I haven't even come close to reading ALL the post on this forum, never will. Smallzz likes his smart pots, And to be honest....I like everyway Fracking way a plant is grown...if someone has managed to use Smerf shit for fert, and a adult diaper for a fart pot then by golly good for him. And he prolly isn't the only one! And just because you don't think highly of ones ideas or methods, does not make it wrong.

I grow my pot in a sock
in this sock of pot
I grow, I put a seed
of my best pot stock

 

[jaredman]

the thread is titled five steps to bigger plants bannacis, not how to grow if you have never grown before. I made some points for people who are trying to get bigger plants so that makes me an ass? I have been a member since 09 so yeah I have read pretty much every post. I simply said these are not the best way to get the biggest plants is all because the whole thing comes off as this being the way to get the best results, which it is not. Thanks for your valuable input though, instead of just talking shit maybe you can share some tips

 

[Smallzz]

No need for anyone to get testy, this is a thread now about sharing information so let's stay on track fellas. We've got a lot of great info from Jared, Blaze, Seamaiden, and others, so let's keep the ship headin' in the right direction captain! ;)

 

[ttystikk]

the thread is titled five steps to bigger plants bannacis, not how to grow if you have never grown before. I made some points for people who are trying to get bigger plants so that makes me an ass? I have been a member since 09 so yeah I have read pretty much every post. I simply said these are not the best way to get the biggest plants is all because the whole thing comes off as this being the way to get the best results, which it is not. Thanks for your valuable input though, instead of just talking shit maybe you can share some tips

What's making you look like an ass here isn't your information, it's your attitude. Try harder not to be snotty, and maybe someone will listen to what you have to say, rather than it being drowned out by how you come off saying it.

 

[Bannacis]

Thanks ttystikk, that was the point I was trying to convey, no where was it stated it was the best way to grow, only what he learned from growing that way, which this forum is about. Everybody has their opinion of what they think is the best...this is where you discuss your ideas, but not implying he doesn't know how to grow... and there you go again ... the TIP is "To gain respect you must respect others"

Now back to smart pots, I have a friend that his family owns a nursery... they have plenty of burlap, that they wrap large root balls of trees. we make large grow bags and place them in our chosen area, based on sun and proper drainage, to rocky to dig.
We transplant our seedlings into regular burlap bags for vegging. when they are of size we put them in the large grow bag raised bed thingy... it allows more air to roots, ensures drainage. and you don't have to dig. Its not the best way to grow, but its what works for this particular area.

 

[jaredman]

I act snotty when people call me out and talk shit. I did have a bad attitude at first when people make smart ass coments about what I post. I should have gotten respect in the first place then when I made some valuable advice then instead of gotten ridiculed. I tried a second time to give advice after that and still peeps talking shit so fuck it I'll keep my growing advice to myself from now on.

 

[Smallzz]

I act snotty when people call me out and talk shit. I did have a bad attitude at first when people make smart ass coments about what I post. I should have gotten respect in the first place then when I made some valuable advice then instead of gotten ridiculed. I tried a second time to give advice after that and still peeps talking shit so fuck it I'll keep my growing advice to myself from now on.

We appreciate your input Jared, we are just asking that you approach things a little differently. If you would rather not do that, then it's like momma used to say, " if you have nothing kind to say, say nothing at all".

 

[jaredman]

So when I do approach things differently as I have for the majority of the thread and people still talk shit and it makes me mad and I defend myself, I should not say anything? What exactly have I said since my initial posts that is bad exactly? What a bunch of little bitches, fuck this shit. Fuck you smallz and every other person who talked shit to me can go fuck themself

 

[Smallzz]

Hope you have a good day too, Jared.

 

[midwestdensies]

I would love to come to Oregon and prove you wrong, as well as a few other folks who don't like me much around here, but I'm afraid the future of growing is indoor, and that's where I'll be heading from now on. My outdoor tips thread was just a parting shot so that the experience I had growing outdoor, and little amount of knowledge I managed to accumulate, didn't go completely to waste.

Next time I can PM you before I try to share some of my growing insights from my personal experience and get permission? :p

Sorry I don't have pics for you btw, I had an episode and had Seamaiden steam clean my profile because I thought I was being cased.

P.S. I'm really glad you brought up french drainage. I'd wholeheartedly recommend that EVERYONE put their pots and raised beds on top of that style of drainage if possible to promote better runoff. It's just one of those trade secret things I don't like to talk about sort of thing that I mentioned. :p

The future is light dep and has always been there. More are realizing, dial that dep! Sun always wins