Smallzz's 5 Steps to bigger outdoor plants

[midwestdensies]

I remember hearing stories about the "kings of the mountain" in humboldt, some guys who owned their own little hill. Apparently they built raised soil beds on a hillside that were four feet tall, and ten foot by ten foot. South facing hill, plants that got over two stories tall. I would like to test some of this out in person some year to see how much of it was fable and how much was fact, but I suspect that the biggest limiting factor for most outdoor growers is soil capacity (so I'm inclined to believe some of it anyway!).

Huge factor water supply..

 

[monkeymun]

Good writeup bro. Do you find smart pots require more frequent watering?

 

[Smallzz]

I watered mine three times a day for a total of their whole capacity in water, but that was because my root mass required it. I have no experience with traditional holes in the ground, but considering the point is to water as frequently and as much as you can without drowning the roots, I'd say yes. It really depends on your medium and how well it drains, too. Basically, the short answer is there are many more factors at play than just the pots that determine your watering cycle and amount, but I think that smart pots do require more since they promote better drainage.

 

[Blaze]

I would agree with midwestdensies on the light dep. Light dep combines the efficiency and reduced environmental impact of outdoor with the climate and environmental manipulation of indoor. The result: buds with the flavor and high of good organic outdoor, but with the more pristine look of indoor. Not to mention from what I have seen a lot of strains that do good indoor but poorly outdoor seem to usually do well in light dep.

In my experience smart pots DEFINITELY take more water than growing in ground. They must be watered more frequently and with more volume. Again, this is another reason I prefer beds. You still get the increased drainage and aeration like smart pots, but you can still use less water. The beds still take more water than growing in ground however.

 

[midwestdensies]

Blaze with the knowledge! Can't wait to shuffle through your threads for next year, looks like i may have a spot for some outdoor.

 

[ttystikk]

Blaze with the knowledge! Can't wait to shuffle through your threads for next year, looks like i may have a spot for some outdoor.

I share your opinion about light depo being the wave of the future. My light depo greenhouse will still have a full complement of lighting to mimic the sun's rays when it isn't available- but that just shows the flexibility of the approach, doesn't it?

 

[midwestdensies]

I share your opinion about light depo being the wave of the future. My light depo greenhouse will still have a full complement of lighting to mimic the sun's rays when it isn't available- but that just shows the flexibility of the approach, doesn't it?

Or you can start them early inside and put out in May for an acclimation to things before flip, pull tarps for two months, then next cycle in July(started indoors again). Also pulling tarps on that one. For the last cycle run them naturally no tarps, essentially working for 7 ish months while maintains moms and clones indoors throughout. That way not much lighting if any ever used. Just how I'd run it ;)

 

[ttystikk]

Or you can start them early inside and put out in May for an acclimation to things before flip, pull tarps for two months, then next cycle in July(started indoors again). Also pulling tarps on that one. For the last cycle run them naturally no tarps, essentially working for 7 ish months while maintains moms and clones indoors throughout. That way not much lighting if any ever used. Just how I'd run it ;)

Yes, and something like this is where I'll likely start. There's a thread her about 'walipini', or earth sheltered greenhouses- they basically look like a basement covered with glazing, and apparently well built ones can grow crops even in the dead of winter. That's when I'd run those lights, as follows; in winter, the sun rises late and goes to bed early, so in order to provide adequate DLI (daily light interval), I'd close the (automated!) light cover and run the artificial lighting during morning and evening in order to make a good twelve hour cycle with plenty of intensity for flowering. I would only use the lights in summer for gaslight dark interruption tactics, if at all.

 

[Bannacis]

I act snotty when people call me out and talk shit. I did have a bad attitude at first when people make smart ass coments about what I post. I should have gotten respect in the first place then when I made some valuable advice then instead of gotten ridiculed. I tried a second time to give advice after that and still peeps talking shit so fuck it I'll keep my growing advice to myself from now on.

Thing is you called smallzz out, pretty much called him a fake. :eek: And he had some valuable advise, never said it was the best, just what worked for him. plus...plus it is his thread! that's all im saying jaredman. if you get upset about comments made on what you post, just remember your comments on somebody else's post.
Don't stop posting your knowledge, nobody said your ideas are lame or anything dude. you've got good info.
And I do apologize for the ass remark.

 

[Bannacis]

One year a friend had some empty burlap bags (50 lb or so) and I snagged them for a project, a lot of em. I made up a good soil recipe, pretty much what Subcool and the Rev make, quite a bit of perlite to make more drainable. I acquired some 3 ft kiddy pools, 5 of them. painted the out side cameo to blend in. I want to to be able to move my plants, but easy.
and with required drainage holes too.
last time I did the bag grow and set it on the ground the roots went into the ground, so I didn't and couldn't move her.
So I put a hole in the lip and tied a rope to it, it pulled nicely to whatever place I need to move it too, here's the kicker...
I made to different types of soil mix one for veg the other flower...of course. so after a strong veg grow, I would (with help) place the flower bag under the now root bound veg bag. then a couple weeks before the sun would change ( 1st week Aug here) I would slide her to a spot where it started to shade in evening, she would start flowering early. and finish early. I wasn't going for size, more on quality. and I got it too! To me being able to control your drainage is ideal, I've always had better results when my medium has dried out.
But I did that for only two seasons, moved to a different place. but I still like the air bags, no kiddy pool just a small tarp just a little bigger than the bag, still easy to pull and the excess water just runs off. oh and I did have problems of heavy buds making plant lean. so I did do some staking, that wasn't very fun with the kiddy pools, but the tarp, just stuck the stakes into ground.
I even did this in a State that is not med legal ..Yet!

 

[Bannacis]

Now when it becomes (and it will) legal, I will have the raised beds. in the ground... but I will make my soil still!
But I still will have em in bags, pots, buckets and what nots.

 

[Kitsune Nyx]

Out of curiosity...
(& let me start with a big thank you for all the sharing...)

What zones are you green thumbs working with?
Do you pick certain strains for their capabilities for your area?

I'm still trying to find my lower jaw after those 18' plants... & here I'm just trying to keep mine just below my privacy fence(7'~ soon to be raised to 9').
I saw mention of cover crops... but how many of you are using companion plantings or permaculture techniques to boost your plants?


Just a odd side question:
Has anyone had a plant that produced, but you left it be(totally lost track of) & it regrew a second year?

 

[Seamaiden]

Out of curiosity...
(& let me start with a big thank you for all the sharing...)

What zones are you green thumbs working with?
Do you pick certain strains for their capabilities for your area?

I'm still trying to find my lower jaw after those 18' plants... & here I'm just trying to keep mine just below my privacy fence(7'~ soon to be raised to 9').
I saw mention of cover crops... but how many of you are using companion plantings or permaculture techniques to boost your plants?


Just a odd side question:
Has anyone had a plant that produced, but you left it be(totally lost track of) & it regrew a second year?

These are some good questions, let me answer as best I can.

I'm in USDA zone 7 (I can't recall if it's 7a or 7b), Sunset West zone 7b IIRC. I don't select strains based on my zone, though, I make my selections based on what I like to smoke and whether or not I've ever run it before. That said, I run a LOT of genetics bred by a local here and those always perform very well for me, do we assume due to similar conditions? Perhaps.

I do not use companion plantings per se, simply the cover crops with a goal of keeping the soil as moist and alive as possible. I have not really incorporated much else in the way of permaculture methods other than the cover cropping at this point.

I have left a portion of a plant that was ripped, it simply died back rather completely by the following December. The only time I've had unexpected production was when some seeds fell through my deck and one of them grew out, later determined to be a Northern Lights #5 lady.

 

[Kitsune Nyx]

May I ask what you used for a cover crop?
...Oh & how did you like your results?

 

[Seamaiden]

I used a few different things, mostly what I had in my cupboard. So, fenugreek, amaranth, the quinoa never sprouted, cumin, and then the 'purpose bought' covers of a couple different varieties of clover, and now I'm drawing a blank on the other stuff. I get the fenugreek in bulk at bulkfoods.com. I use a little cordless hedge trimmer to chop & drop it during the season, otherwise it grows up into the cannabis and that's caused a problem so I keep it below the canopy. The crops do have to get sufficient light to grow well, I had one plant that shaded everything out entirely, but that plant was growing very vigorously and so was able to shade and penetrate her own soil bed just fine. I feel the cover crops do better in a bed or mound scenario for that reason.

I loved the results in that I was able to keep watering down, didn't see all the run-off through the beds (I bring in top soil and plant either in Smart Pots, ghetto SPs or raised beds because we're on very extremely heavy clay here) that I typically see when trying to keep the soil for my cannabis moist enough. I hope that sentence made sense.

 

[Kitsune Nyx]

I'm only now beginning to work with specific genetics. Previously, it would be whatever lucky bud urchin seed managed to find me... most were Diesel crosses, occasionally a Widow cross or Blueberry Cross(you know how weird the non med weed world gets). I have neglected them, the cats peed on em, the HOT 100+* deep deep southern summers abused them & then I just kinda treated it like any old plant in the garden... only to get repeat blooms(poor harvest, clearly). It's become a bit of a joke... but interestingly enough, a novelty.
(I know, I know... sacrilege. Don't throw that shoe)

 

[Seamaiden]

Ok, question for you, are you starting with seeds always, or clones? You mention repeat blooms, which makes me think "re-veg."

 

[Kitsune Nyx]

I used a few different things, mostly what I had in my cupboard. So, fenugreek, amaranth, the quinoa never sprouted, cumin, and then the 'purpose bought' covers of a couple different varieties of clover, and now I'm drawing a blank on the other stuff. I get the fenugreek in bulk at bulkfoods.com. I use a little cordless hedge trimmer to chop & drop it during the season, otherwise it grows up into the cannabis and that's caused a problem so I keep it below the canopy. The crops do have to get sufficient light to grow well, I had one plant that shaded everything out entirely, but that plant was growing very vigorously and so was able to shade and penetrate her own soil bed just fine. I feel the cover crops do better in a bed or mound scenario for that reason.

I loved the results in that I was able to keep watering down, didn't see all the run-off through the beds (I bring in top soil and plant either in Smart Pots, ghetto SPs or raised beds because we're on very extremely heavy clay here) that I typically see when trying to keep the soil for my cannabis moist enough. I hope that sentence made sense.

Ok, got it.
I guess you already know that there are basically two directions for cover crops:
on & off season cover crops.
(...& for anyone wondering what cover crops do, they serve to help improve soil conditions- locking extra nitrogen, avoiding water losses, soil losses, attracting pollinators/good soil bacteria & breaking down to usable material-compost/green manure- that plants utilize while growing. Just thought to mention that.)

Clovers(especially white) are great cover, both during and after crops. They will pull nutrients a bit, but the trade off makes it worth it. I adore Hairy vetch. It self seeds, uses little water or nutrient, loves both sun and shade, lays down a fat thicket of ground cover, eagerly turns into soil, has one of the highest nitrogen fixing levels & has no issue with hot or cold weather extremes. Another very handy aspect to it is it's lack of appreciation for poorly draining soil. The plant is basically a barometer of soil health. Maybe something for you to try. Seed is cheap- if not free. If you know what to look for, you can easily harvest the dark pods before they pop & use them later. Oh & if that's not enough, the stuff spreads wide, but has a simple rooting center. One quick hand raking and you can pull & turn them. Tools optional.

*food for thought, ya feel me?*
;)

 

[Kitsune Nyx]

Ok, question for you, are you starting with seeds always, or clones? You mention repeat blooms, which makes me think "re-veg."

Seeds have always been what I got to work with. (& when I say a neglected plant, shameful I know, I mean like wild neglected)
Re-veg is spot on. Light budding, then defoliated, our fake winters, then *poof* green everywhere & doubles in size.
I guessed it was just following a more wild instinct, but it was cool to look at it & say...
"this is it's second budding this year". LOL!

 

[Seamaiden]

We should have good stands of purple vetch, which is naturally established in our area, with in a couple of weeks, maybe less. Using it to plant with cannabis would be problematic, mostly for its vining/overgrowing habit, and it'll be dry by the time summer hits.

Maybe you can do a little write-up here on cover crops? I haven't had a chance to use off-season covers yet, the past three winters have been far too dry and I don't want to irrigate.