Filling A Recovery Tank With Canned Butane.

[MtnDawg]

I have a bunch of cans of 5x butane, a can tapper, an R-600 compatible refrigerant pump, a vacuum pump, a 30# recovery tank, a split valve and some 1/4" hoses. If I pull down the recovery tank to -29.5Hg, chill it, connect the can tapper to the low side of the refrigerant pump and the vapor side of the recovery tank to the high side of the pump, is this an effective way to dump my canned butane into the recovery tank for future use?

 

[disposition84]

I'm sure that would work, but wouldn't you want to distill the butane first to get all the mystery oils out? I'm also with skipping the pump.

 

[MtnDawg]

Okay boys, change of plans. :-)

Forget the pump. I'm waiting on the new Haskel unit to become a reality just like everyone else, so the pump was a hypothetical anyway. It would speed things up I'm sure, but I'm not in any particular hurry.

I don't have a cold trap per se, as that's what the recovery tank is for, but I do have a MkIII collection chamber. I could cap it and use it temporarily as an intermediate cold trap to distill the butane, and recover the clean butane into the refrigerant tank from there.

Comments?

 

[disposition84]

That would totally work to distill the butane, just close off the necessary valves, vacuum down, warm collection pot, chill recovery tank.

 

[Herb Forester]

Anyone running a CM-EP yet? EcoGreen is selling them now.

 

[MtnDawg]

Definitely a better price (and without the hidden compressor cost) than the Haskel. I might get one of those. Curious how it holds up.

btw, Herb Forester is a clever handle. Well done.

 

[MtnDawg]

Wow. I was skeptical of this so-called 'mystery' oil in canned butane. I'm not a skeptic anymore. The distillation vessel was coated with a lightweight, amber colored oil. It smelled very vaguely of mercaptan to me, but who knows what that stuff is.

Onward. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[juggo]

Hello,
Was wondering if there is an easy way for open blasters to distill butane,seems like by the time you buy the kit to distill,you may as well get a closed looper. Would be nice if someone offered distilled butane for sale...the way people buy butane around here someone would make a killing. Damn mystery oil.

peace,
juggo

 

[Graywolf]

Anyone running a CM-EP yet? EcoGreen is selling them now.

We are testing one that is using hemp seed oil in the crank case, because they aren't oil less.

There is some carry over of oil into the butane, and so additional scrubbing is required.

They are about three times as fast as an Appion, about as loud as a refrigerator and so far ours hasn't missed a beat.

 

[MtnDawg]

"Additional scrubbing". Is this a process you've covered in your blog somewhere?

 

[bongobongo]

I absolutely have pulled oil off the pistons every time I filled cans or try to distill with a appion.

 

[Graywolf]

"Additional scrubbing". Is this a process you've covered in your blog somewhere?

It means a filter to scrub the butane between the pump and the tank, to remove any oil contamination.

If you look at the issue holistically, water contamination is also an issue, so WolfWurx now runs the pump discharge through a heat exchanger, followed by a water trap, and then a filter drier, before returning it to the tank for recycle.

 

[MtnDawg]

It means a filter to scrub the butane between the pump and the tank, to remove any oil contamination.

If you look at the issue holistically, water contamination is also an issue, so WolfWurx now runs the pump discharge through a heat exchanger, followed by a water trap, and then a filter drier, before returning it to the tank for recycle.

Is the purpose of the heat exchanger to condense water vapor prior to the water trap and filter/drier?

 

[MtnDawg]

And, speaking of filter/driers, what does SkunkPharm recommend? I can't find any details about that part of the system.

 

[Graywolf]

Is the purpose of the heat exchanger to condense water vapor prior to the water trap and filter/drier?

The purpose of the heat exchanger is to remove the heat, so as to return the vapor to a liquid, but that also lowers the temperature of the butane to waters dew point.

We use a small 1/4" o32 in front of the recovery pump to protect it against droplets, and a larger 1/2" Sporlan 304

http://sporlanonline.com/literature/40/40-10.pdf

 

[MtnDawg]

So, while the Sporlan specs don't indicate R600 compatibility, there aren't any materials in the filter that will dissolve in the presence of R600, either. Alrighty then.

I'm a little unclear about the state of the butane on the output side of the pump, though. If the output side is under pressure, won't the butane tend to heat and liquify when it's compressed? Kinda like a refrigeration system? Come to think of it, isn't a closed system a basic fridge of sorts? A "reefer" so to speak? ;-)

 

[Herb Forester]

Adding this to my notes for if/when I upgrade to active gear, and can understand it all better :oops:

Thx for the compliment, the name still makes me laugh every time I see it.

 

[blazer]

I absolutely have pulled oil off the pistons every time I filled cans or try to distill with a appion.

I think the apions are oilless And are made to handle liquid more so than other recovery machines which are made to pump gas!

 

[MtnDawg]

There seems to be a lot of conflicting information about recovery pumps, and somewhat of a conundrum, too. I see a workable solution to all of this.

The Appion G5 Twin is not rated for R600. It is not explosion proof. That it may wash oil into the butane is irrelevant. It's not not the right pump because it's not explosion proof. Use at your own peril. The fact that almost every closed system purveyor shows pictures of their product connected to an Appion seems downright irresponsible to me.

The CM-EP (and others) are rated for R600, but they are not oilless, so they wash some oil into the butane during recovery. You won't blow yourself up, but now you've got another problem. Therein lies the conundrum.

Seems to me that a hybrid system is the solution here. Use a CM-EP to rapidly recover your solvent from the extraction into a suitably sized distillation vessel. Passively distill the fouled solvent from the distillation vessel back into your "clean" tank as a separate process. Granted, it's two separate steps, but it gives you fast recovery of your extraction vessel so you can start your vac purge, and solves the fouled butane problem. If you're not trying to go full tilt production all the time, it's a perfectly workable solution. The entire time you're purging, you're also vapor distilling your solvent for your next run.

 

[Graywolf]

So, while the Sporlan specs don't indicate R600 compatibility, there aren't any materials in the filter that will dissolve in the presence of R600, either. Alrighty then.

I'm a little unclear about the state of the butane on the output side of the pump, though. If the output side is under pressure, won't the butane tend to heat and liquify when it's compressed? Kinda like a refrigeration system? Come to think of it, isn't a closed system a basic fridge of sorts? A "reefer" so to speak? ;-)

The butane is hot on the discharge side of the pump, so in a gaseous state. To return it to a liquid hot requires higher pressure. Higher pressure takes longer to recover, so it is best to remove the heat and return it to liquid at lower pressure.

The way a refrigerator works, is to compress the refrigerant gas, which heats it up from both the heat of compression, and also from the heat of vaporization.

The refrigerant is then cooled back down using a fan and air to liquid heat exchanger, before the pressure is released.

When pressure is released and the liquid converts back to a vapor, it absorbs the number of BTU's needed to overcome the heat of vaporization. Voila, refrigeration!