Nectar For The Gods And Coco Coir

[Hemp55]

Who???

Eric Johnson.

 

[Irie Farmer]

Come on bro you one throw shots, that's fine I'm just saying you make bold statements and there not true. To each is own ima leave it that homie. Canna is a great line idk where you live but I stay in the swamp, pest control. There plentiful. Keep been an honorary ass it's cool. Peace & positive vibes.

He's got nothing better to do obviously. I saw both of the pics you two posted and they are both frosty as a polar bears toenails but you have much better bud structure and heft where he has a leafy larfy structure that would only be good for concentrate imho. Keep the positive vibes and props on your fruits.

 

[Irie Farmer]

Also running NFTG in a coco mix and it's killer stuff. Did you flush and charge your coco if you're running it straight?

I think you nailed his situation and looking like a pH problem and overwatering to me also.

 

[Irie Farmer]

nectar for the gods is a shit line but more importantly, its not meant for coco.
buy a PH pen and get some different nutrients.

Also, id suggest not using your own name and picture when posting on these websites...

I know that this is an old thread and someone else has probably already said this but the guy who makes Nectar for the Gods grows in coco coir and like many others including myself have had great results with this combination. That being said for the money I think there are better products but a good grower can adapt to any line of nutes and do ok. Best, Irie.

 

[cemchris]

..from a chemistry standpoint, if I start with RO water..I need to re-mineralize the water..by adding Calcium/Magnesium first. If I don't add it in first, I risk precipitation (fallout) of the CalMag. So, Cal/Mag comes first when building my nute solution.

I dropped calmg out of my line years ago w/ 0 side affects. People still think you need coco specific nutes? Hmmm interesting.

 

[Natural]

I dropped calmg out of my line years ago w/ 0 side affects. People still think you need coco specific nutes? Hmmm interesting.

hey chris..long time bro. I personally don't grow in coco..but in peat. I haven't read this thread in a long time, but I think I was referring to the process taught to me in order of building a hydroponic/soil-less nutrient formula. Certainly if CalMag is a part of the equation it needs to be added first..I think that was my point.
Lots of lines have plenty of CalMag already built into their components. Pretty certain that Calcium and Magnesium are actual primary building blocks for human and plant life both. Exactly what sources and at what levels are going to be opinion. My guess is that most problems occur because either PH isn't ideal and/or feeding levels are not ideal when problems occur when using a complete line without extra Cal Mag added.
My conundrum that I'm facing today..is that my new nutrient line that I recently acquired and plan to test...Veg+Bloom Dirty version in peat moss with RO water source, comes with a caveat. On the label it suggests that the water source needs to be @ .2-.3 EC before trying to dissolve the dry powder. They suggest adding in enough tap to RO to bring it up to this level. I'm not exactly sure as to why..but my educated guess is that the nature of the one-part and that the purity of the RO will cause a chemical reaction and the cal mag will solidify out of solution and not be available to the plant. I'm not exactly keen on adding in disgusting tap water and may try to bring my EC level up with liquid cal mag and silica..not quite sure yet. Also have heard that the Peter's aka Jack's line is a bit incomplete when it comes to Cal Mag and plants will exhibit deficiencies when Veg+Bloom will not..of course this is just experiences relayed to me by others..but my feelings are that folks who use RO water and add no additional cal mag have a good handle on PH and feed levels as well as their nutrient program already containing levels of calcium and magnesium to begin with.

 

[cemchris]

hey chris..long time bro. I personally don't grow in coco..but in peat. I haven't read this thread in a long time, but I think I was referring to the process taught to me in order of building a hydroponic/soil-less nutrient formula. Certainly if CalMag is a part of the equation it needs to be added first..I think that was my point.
Lots of lines have plenty of CalMag already built into their components. Pretty certain that Calcium and Magnesium are actual primary building blocks for human and plant life both. Exactly what sources and at what levels are going to be opinion. My guess is that most problems occur because either PH isn't ideal and/or feeding levels are not ideal when problems occur when using a complete line without extra Cal Mag added.
My conundrum that I'm facing today..is that my new nutrient line that I recently acquired and plan to test...Veg+Bloom Dirty version in peat moss with RO water source, comes with a caveat. On the label it suggests that the water source needs to be @ .2-.3 EC before trying to dissolve the dry powder. They suggest adding in enough tap to RO to bring it up to this level. I'm not exactly sure as to why..but my educated guess is that the nature of the one-part and that the purity of the RO will cause a chemical reaction and the cal mag will solidify out of solution and not be available to the plant. I'm not exactly keen on adding in disgusting tap water and may try to bring my EC level up with liquid cal mag and silica..not quite sure yet. Also have heard that the Peter's aka Jack's line is a bit incomplete when it comes to Cal Mag and plants will exhibit deficiencies when Veg+Bloom will not..of course this is just experiences relayed to me by others..but my feelings are that folks who use RO water and add no additional cal mag have a good handle on PH and feed levels as well as their nutrient program already containing levels of calcium and magnesium to begin with.

Sup bro. Has been quite a while. Good to see ya. I'm also on RO. I used to be a religious Calmg user with coco cause I thought coco needed the extra boost locking up Mg ect ect. I dropped it out of a run and the flavor seemed to be better afterwards. So I stuck with it. Havent ran into a calmg problem since then. Honestly I would run Earth Juice Micro way before I dipped into another bottle of Calmg.

I feel ya on the PH and feeding vs adding Calmg itself. I would always just ph to 7 for a feed when I threw them into flower to make sure they had enough available Ca and Mg. Yeah seems almost all the bottle nutes and adds I use have always had it covered and I was just throwing nutes down the drain. That's interesting about adding tap water back. Seems like a pretty solid guess. I have been running Veg + Bloom for a while before they came out with all the new stuff. I wonder if the formula has changed.

 

[Natural]

Sup bro. Has been quite a while. Good to see ya. I'm also on RO. I used to be a religious Calmg user with coco cause I thought coco needed the extra boost locking up Mg ect ect. I dropped it out of a run and the flavor seemed to be better afterwards. So I stuck with it. Havent ran into a calmg problem since then. Honestly I would run Earth Juice Micro way before I dipped into another bottle of Calmg.

I feel ya on the PH and feeding vs adding Calmg itself. I would always just ph to 7 for a feed when I threw them into flower to make sure they had enough available Ca and Mg. Yeah seems almost all the bottle nutes and adds I use have always had it covered and I was just throwing nutes down the drain. That's interesting about adding tap water back. Seems like a pretty solid guess. I have been running Veg + Bloom for a while before they came out with all the new stuff. I wonder if the formula has changed.

man I've got this bubblegum cut and this dubble sour watermelon..I swear these plants can produce some product on one medium feed per week. Just crazy. These OG's Sours and Chems got us all twisted up on what nutes to use. I can throw N at my wifi cut all week long and she'll be pissed but load her up on some calmag and she gets all happy and shit. Goes to show what were up against with firm reggies sometimes. But ya the CalMag gets cut back in flower for me I don't care what strain it is..Might look into some EJ Micros for my "teas" in veg..might be a good trick. I'm diving head first into the V+B abyss..lol. They sent me my package with an invoice plastered to the side..I'm wtf? They could be a bit stealthier. Hope it's a good line.

 

[Newenglander]

Man I ran floranova for years and years, switched over to maxibloom cause it mixed easier then found v+b never looked back. I run 500ppm start finish in 4x8 beds I don't till flush never do anything but top off rez. 2 years or more and running.

Has v+b changed?

 

[Irie Farmer]

hey chris..long time bro. I personally don't grow in coco..but in peat. I haven't read this thread in a long time, but I think I was referring to the process taught to me in order of building a hydroponic/soil-less nutrient formula. Certainly if CalMag is a part of the equation it needs to be added first..I think that was my point.
Lots of lines have plenty of CalMag already built into their components. Pretty certain that Calcium and Magnesium are actual primary building blocks for human and plant life both. Exactly what sources and at what levels are going to be opinion. My guess is that most problems occur because either PH isn't ideal and/or feeding levels are not ideal when problems occur when using a complete line without extra Cal Mag added.
My conundrum that I'm facing today..is that my new nutrient line that I recently acquired and plan to test...Veg+Bloom Dirty version in peat moss with RO water source, comes with a caveat. On the label it suggests that the water source needs to be @ .2-.3 EC before trying to dissolve the dry powder. They suggest adding in enough tap to RO to bring it up to this level. I'm not exactly sure as to why..but my educated guess is that the nature of the one-part and that the purity of the RO will cause a chemical reaction and the cal mag will solidify out of solution and not be available to the plant. I'm not exactly keen on adding in disgusting tap water and may try to bring my EC level up with liquid cal mag and silica..not quite sure yet. Also have heard that the Peter's aka Jack's line is a bit incomplete when it comes to Cal Mag and plants will exhibit deficiencies when Veg+Bloom will not..of course this is just experiences relayed to me by others..but my feelings are that folks who use RO water and add no additional cal mag have a good handle on PH and feed levels as well as their nutrient program already containing levels of calcium and magnesium to begin with.

Very true about the cal/mag being added first even if using RO it's suggested. The main reason for adding it first is from what I've read is that it tends to "fallout" with ppm's over 150 or so. The general rule is supplements (even though magnesium is more like the 4th nutrient) then nutrients and last your additives. I think that a little cal/mag and silica is a great idea for bringing your EC up just a tad and I think you could probably get to that .3 even without the cal/mag using some bone meal or blood meal depending on what stage you're in. I too have noticed a funky taste from too much cal/mag and I only use it for the first month of veg if I'm starting from seed and 2 weeks if from clone with coco. I never use much in soil though and honestly didn't at all for 20 years. I guess it just depends on your nutes and understanding what's in them. I'm of the less is more philosophy and I don't really push 'em hard until I'm boosting PK's because I get good growth rates in veg and never considered it a race. I believe people get so caught up in all the products on the market they really lose the natural feel for growing and reading your plants instead of some companies feed charts. I check ppm's at the start and after every product to see where my final ratio is coming from and then once I know what's adding how much I adjust to get what I want in my mix to achieve my final numbers. I'm always skeptical of manufacturers suggested doses so I'm going to check out every new product I use myself and not just go by the chart because doing that I've hit over 3,500 ppm's, wth. Sounds like you've got your groove on and I'm sure you're going to kill it with Veg + Bloom. Best, Irie.

 

[cemchris]

Has v+b changed?

Back in 2012 he was pushing it on the board and I took the plunge. Never looked back. We also run it at work. Now they have the dirty and clean I believe. Also Life, Push ect. Not sure if the formula has changed.

Funny that's the same route I took.

 

[Natural]

Back in 2012 he was pushing it on the board and I took the plunge. Never looked back. We also run it at work. Now they have the dirty and clean I believe. Also Life, Push ect. Not sure if the formula has changed.

Funny that's the same route I took.

Ya know I doubt he's changed the formula for the original soft and hard. As far as I know Dirty is the new one geared for soil and HD..is a blend of hard and dirty for coco. The website has changed..but he had some good info on the differences before. My ideas on why it's a good to start with hard water aka .2-.3 ec water for mixing, is probably off-base and probably has more to do with plain old solubility in general. Sure wish I had an IG account seems to be the only way to ask the dude questions.
My fist experience mixing the stuff up was a good one. My tap comes out at .3 EC. But since I use an RO filter..my supply won't even register on my bluelab truncheon. Maybe I should rethink filtration and find a chlorine and cyst filter? Maybe something like a UV and Big Blue carbon? After all I'm trying to simplify my methods not complicate them.
@Irie Farmer it takes oh so little calimagic to bring the EC up..OSA 28 and Rhizo wouldn't even register

 

[Pauly Cicero]

Thats what I like about NFTG. When I ran h and g or botan or advanced I would go half dose and never get to the manufacturers spec until the very end if I was lucky. With NFTG, I started at half dose and got all sorts of deficiencies that looked like the same lock out you get from over feeding. I realized real fast that this food is light and ez. I am able to control dosage very easily and it is very hard to over feed. They are eating such good stuff, normally we run into real def instead of lock out, meaning this food kind of operates in reverse of normal synth nutes. The more you feed, often the better they look. Now Bloom Khaos is a whole other story! Great convo guys.

 

[cemchris]

Ya know I doubt he's changed the formula for the original soft and hard. As far as I know Dirty is the new one geared for soil and HD..is a blend of hard and dirty for coco. The website has changed..but he had some good info on the differences before. My ideas on why it's a good to start with hard water aka .2-.3 ec water for mixing, is probably off-base and probably has more to do with plain old solubility in general. Sure wish I had an IG account seems to be the only way to ask the dude questions.
My fist experience mixing the stuff up was a good one. My tap comes out at .3 EC. But since I use an RO filter..my supply won't even register on my bluelab truncheon. Maybe I should rethink filtration and find a chlorine and cyst filter? Maybe something like a UV and Big Blue carbon? After all I'm trying to simplify my methods not complicate them.
@Irie Farmer it takes oh so little calimagic to bring the EC up..OSA 28 and Rhizo wouldn't even register

I still have his email if you want it.

 

[Irie Farmer]

Ya know I doubt he's changed the formula for the original soft and hard. As far as I know Dirty is the new one geared for soil and HD..is a blend of hard and dirty for coco. The website has changed..but he had some good info on the differences before. My ideas on why it's a good to start with hard water aka .2-.3 ec water for mixing, is probably off-base and probably has more to do with plain old solubility in general. Sure wish I had an IG account seems to be the only way to ask the dude questions.
My fist experience mixing the stuff up was a good one. My tap comes out at .3 EC. But since I use an RO filter..my supply won't even register on my bluelab truncheon. Maybe I should rethink filtration and find a chlorine and cyst filter? Maybe something like a UV and Big Blue carbon? After all I'm trying to simplify my methods not complicate them.
@Irie Farmer it takes oh so little calimagic to bring the EC up..OSA 28 and Rhizo wouldn't even register

I know you're probably not a N4TG fan, but if you want to add a great source of calcium try using Demeters Destiny and Herculean Harvest for some killer flavor and seriously good food for your plants. You will need to experiment a little to find out how much you need to get your EC up but you'll also lower your pH while using food instead of acid. I'm a big believer in those two products and honestly can do without the rest of their line. I didn't suggest Rhizo as that would not have any effect on the EC maybe the pH a little as Silica will raise it, Rhizo will lower it a tad. HH is great for flushing too and there's no need to starve your plants especially if you're not over feeding to begin with. I use a lot of different brands and they all have pros and cons but the two N4TG products I mentioned can be used with any nutrient line same with Athenas Aminos and in any medium. I believe in switching up their diet every once in a while and they seem to love it and as @Pauly Cicero stated it's hard to overdose them with N4TG's but it's suggested not to exceed 1500ppm which I don't come close to anyway. Less is more and when to feed what and what is actually available for them when you feed is what I think is important, at least IME. Sounds like you know what's up and I'm sure you get down so I'm not trying to teach you anything or tell you what to use, just simply giving some suggestions as an alternative to cal/mag. Best to you all out there, Irie.

 

[Natural]

I know you're probably not a N4TG fan, but if you want to add a great source of calcium try using Demeters Destiny and Herculean Harvest for some killer flavor and seriously good food for your plants. You will need to experiment a little to find out how much you need to get your EC up but you'll also lower your pH while using food instead of acid. I'm a big believer in those two products and honestly can do without the rest of their line. I didn't suggest Rhizo as that would not have any effect on the EC maybe the pH a little as Silica will raise it, Rhizo will lower it a tad. HH is great for flushing too and there's no need to starve your plants especially if you're not over feeding to begin with. I use a lot of different brands and they all have pros and cons but the two N4TG products I mentioned can be used with any nutrient line same with Athenas Aminos and in any medium. I believe in switching up their diet every once in a while and they seem to love it and as @Pauly Cicero stated it's hard to overdose them with N4TG's but it's suggested not to exceed 1500ppm which I don't come close to anyway. Less is more and when to feed what and what is actually available for them when you feed is what I think is important, at least IME. Sounds like you know what's up and I'm sure you get down so I'm not trying to teach you anything or tell you what to use, just simply giving some suggestions as an alternative to cal/mag. Best to you all out there, Irie.

Right on..I haven't tried the Athena's Aminos yet. What does the DD look like..consistency? I used the Olympus PH UP religiously with GO and BioBizz lines to correct my PH. It's my firm opinion that most if not all of the Calcium Carbonate molecules are too big to be absorbed by the root follicles directly and made little headway to adding any calcium to the plants foliage unless it was broken down by microbes...which caused me to use a calmag product in addition. I tried GO's CalMag but thought it to be less effective than Calimagic over-all. At this point I'm basically looking to add very little to "harden" my water for the V+B.
I experimented with the HH as a flush product per label. It seemed to work just fine..but I thought it may have dulled the brightness of terps and the buzz with my reggie indoors..was not super impressed with bone meal. I resigned the effects of using it as a flush as basically tying up whatever salts or extra nutes found in the soil at near harvest and left the addition of it for weaker feeds and plain water towards the end.
I still have an untouched bottle of Bloom Khaos that frankly I'm afraid to use. But I use the Hygeia Hydration religiously as a soil conditioner and foliar sticker. All in all I think NFTG's has some fine products to be cherry picked and the owner/producer to be a conscientious person. I do think the line is too complicated and therefore too expensive on anything considered commercial scale or beyond a small personal garden imho. best

 

[Irie Farmer]

Right on..I haven't tried the Athena's Aminos yet. What does the DD look like..consistency? I used the Olympus PH UP religiously with GO and BioBizz lines to correct my PH. It's my firm opinion that most if not all of the Calcium Carbonate molecules are too big to be absorbed by the root follicles directly and made little headway to adding any calcium to the plants foliage unless it was broken down by microbes...which caused me to use a calmag product in addition. I tried GO's CalMag but thought it to be less effective than Calimagic over-all. At this point I'm basically looking to add very little to "harden" my water for the V+B.
I experimented with the HH as a flush product per label. It seemed to work just fine..but I thought it may have dulled the brightness of terps and the buzz with my reggie indoors..was not super impressed with bone meal. I resigned the effects of using it as a flush as basically tying up whatever salts or extra nutes found in the soil at near harvest and left the addition of it for weaker feeds and plain water towards the end.
I still have an untouched bottle of Bloom Khaos that frankly I'm afraid to use. But I use the Hygeia Hydration religiously as a soil conditioner and foliar sticker. All in all I think NFTG's has some fine products to be cherry picked and the owner/producer to be a conscientious person. I do think the line is too complicated and therefore too expensive on anything considered commercial scale or beyond a small personal garden imho. best

DD looks like Botanicare CNS17, or milk. It works great for me and I see results a lot faster than with cal/mag. I use Calimagic to pre charge my coco but not much more after that since I mostly use CNS17, N4TG and another line geared toward commercial agriculture and it has no salts or chlorine and has a Mag/Hume product that the ladies absolutely love. Best, Irie.

 

[Natural]

worth noting that calimagic is also calcium carbonate aka calcite as in Olympus Up along with magnesium nitrate..I believe the reason it is not a cloudy grainy solution is because the cal carbonate is dissolved using an acid. This is how it's done when testing for gold samples to clear the water of small floating particles..completely dissolving it. If it was left to pure water dilution it would eventually settle out, but it has a high attraction to water and has a low density so it takes a long time. I'm not sure but I'm thinking the Demeters could be soft rock dust dissolved in water. Just a guess though. The whole of NFTG's has a raw mineral feel to it..but I sometimes find myself questioning the sources of some of the ingredients as it rarely lists the "derived" from explanation. Sometimes I think some of the products are just a cheaply available nutrient or mineral powder dissolved in water.

 

[Irie Farmer]

worth noting that calimagic is also calcium carbonate aka calcite as in Olympus Up along with magnesium nitrate..I believe the reason it is not a cloudy grainy solution is because the cal carbonate is dissolved using an acid. This is how it's done when testing for gold samples to clear the water of small floating particles..completely dissolving it. If it was left to pure water dilution it would eventually settle out, but it has a high attraction to water and has a low density so it takes a long time. I'm not sure but I'm thinking the Demeters could be soft rock dust dissolved in water. Just a guess though. The whole of NFTG's has a raw mineral feel to it..but I sometimes find myself questioning the sources of some of the ingredients as it rarely lists the "derived" from explanation. Sometimes I think some of the products are just a cheaply available nutrient or mineral powder dissolved in water.

I'm no N4TG fanboy, I actually use a lot of different lines in different situations and originally when I first used it in coco I was not happy. My two best plants went downhill fast and I was blaming the nutes and cussing at myself for ever trying it but I started doing my homework and learned it's a lot different from most other nutes and is actually easy to use once you get a feel for it. As for the ingredients Scott has a video on YouTube that is pretty open about what it's made of except for a few things as all manufacturers hold back "trade secrets" but really it's just a different approach to feeding your plants and I think it's high quality organics. I'm no chemist but I can understand where he's coming from and I can attest firsthand that it works. I used FF years ago and it's miles better imho. Best, Irie.

 

[Pauly Cicero]

I am all nftg all day. There really is no need for cal mag or bloom enhancers with nftg since it is calcium derived. Some strains do become mag hungry and using Bloom khaos the wrong way can fuck up a run overnight. That shit needs huge amounts of cal that cal nitrate just can't provide. That is why we use the bone meal to balance. I have used and had great results with botan, H&G, Advanced, growtek and growmore products. I have never tasted anything so clean with NFTG. I used this line with readygro and I know a few that use coco. Nftg works great with it. I use nectar #4 for soil now. This is a great thread!