Living Soil, Mulching, Cover Crop, Vermicompost Qs

[Underthesun]

Hey all you fellow organic gardeners. I was skeptical about starting a new thread, but couldn't really find all the info I was looking for using the search button. I'm semi new to organic gardening and attempting to take things a step further. This year will be my first grow using all my own compost and vermicompost and I have mixed up a living soil recipe from Build-a-soil's website that gives credit to Clackamas Coots. Either way, I have heard good things about this mix from the farm here, read some of Coot's blogs and have a few questions I was hoping someone with a little more experience can help me out with or point me to some info that I haven't been able to find on my own. I'm an outdoor grower, fyi.

Mulching/Cover Cropping:
Yes I will need this, or at least mulching. But what do you all prefer and why? I have seen some of you like to just use compost/castings, others like wood chips and some like cover crops. When using cover crops do you plant in the fall, spring, whenever you want? Do you till in your crops at a certain time of year, just chop them down, let them grow all around your plants? I just have not seen any pictures of cannabis and cover crops...pics would be nice if anyone has any. Also, if using cover crops and you also want to mulch, do you just start dumping compost and/or whatever you use on top of the cover crops? That leads to another question, how do you top dress with cover crops? Maybe I just need a visual image here.

Livng soil:
I plan to use this soil year after year. I assume I'll plant some cover crops in the fall and then what is the standard practice, if there is one, when you plant your plants in the spring. How do you re-amend the soil without tilling up the cover crops...or do you till?

Vermicomposting:
I have been raising worms and harvesting vermicompost for about a year now. I want to expand and really get some high quality castings for next season, a year from now. I've just been using cardboard and and food, garden scraps. I'm sure this is excellent shiz, but maybe it could be even better. I read how Coots lets his worms eat up all his nutes, comfrey, barley straw and makes a killer compost after a year. I was thinking of doing this. Then I assume I could just top dress with this next season and have some really rad worm shiz. I was thinking of just using my cold compost as the bedding and then adding my nutes/minerals to that instead of using barley and comfrey. Any thought or advice on my vermicompost idea?

 

[ken dog]

Thoughts?...
Ewwww worms.;)

 

[keiksweat]

Yep,I'm in too hear advice on cover crops.still experimenting myself with living composts,mulches...

 

[Blaze]

Hey all you fellow organic gardeners. I was skeptical about starting a new thread, but couldn't really find all the info I was looking for using the search button. I'm semi new to organic gardening and attempting to take things a step further. This year will be my first grow using all my own compost and vermicompost and I have mixed up a living soil recipe from Build-a-soil's website that gives credit to Clackamas Coots. Either way, I have heard good things about this mix from the farm here, read some of Coot's blogs and have a few questions I was hoping someone with a little more experience can help me out with or point me to some info that I haven't been able to find on my own. I'm an outdoor grower, fyi.

Mulching/Cover Cropping:
Yes I will need this, or at least mulching. But what do you all prefer and why? I have seen some of you like to just use compost/castings, others like wood chips and some like cover crops. When using cover crops do you plant in the fall, spring, whenever you want? Do you till in your crops at a certain time of year, just chop them down, let them grow all around your plants? I just have not seen any pictures of cannabis and cover crops...pics would be nice if anyone has any. Also, if using cover crops and you also want to mulch, do you just start dumping compost and/or whatever you use on top of the cover crops? That leads to another question, how do you top dress with cover crops? Maybe I just need a visual image here.

Livng soil:
I plan to use this soil year after year. I assume I'll plant some cover crops in the fall and then what is the standard practice, if there is one, when you plant your plants in the spring. How do you re-amend the soil without tilling up the cover crops...or do you till?

Vermicomposting:
I have been raising worms and harvesting vermicompost for about a year now. I want to expand and really get some high quality castings for next season, a year from now. I've just been using cardboard and and food, garden scraps. I'm sure this is excellent shiz, but maybe it could be even better. I read how Coots lets his worms eat up all his nutes, comfrey, barley straw and makes a killer compost after a year. I was thinking of doing this. Then I assume I could just top dress with this next season and have some really rad worm shiz. I was thinking of just using my cold compost as the bedding and then adding my nutes/minerals to that instead of using barley and comfrey. Any thought or advice on my vermicompost idea?

Well there are a lot of different techniques and styles for living soil, so everyone will have a different opinion. You will have to figure our what works best for you and your garden.

For mulches I prefer a coarse compost, preferably what is often referred to as a 'vineyard much' if I can find it. I like this type of mulch because it breaks down into the soil over a few months. This does mean that you have to re apply towards the end of summer when using it outdoors though.

A lot of people like using straw as well. It is inexpensive and does a good job of holding the moisture in but it takes a long time to break down (which can be either a pro or a con depending on what you want). However, if you are growing outdoors it also makes a nice nesting environment for voles, mice and other rodents, which in turn can girdle your plants, killing them as well as chew up your drip system. I always have a seriously high rodent population so I cannot use straw for my gardens - I've ended up with dead plants every time I've tried it. This is also why I don't use a living mulch - it makes it too easy for rodents to nest and hide in the garden. If you do not have rodent issues than living mulches can be a great way to mulch your plants - I may try living mulches in my greenhouse once it is built as I can more easily keep rodents out of an enclosed structure.

Our cover crops get seeded mid Nov, as soon as the last outdoor plant are harvested. A layer of manure and compost gets tossed on top of them to act as a mulch. They grow till about April 1, then get chopped down, and another layer of compost is added on top. In a week or so here we will be adding our other dry amendments and forking the soil to mix it in. I have done straight no-till with some of my outdoor plants but I am still figuring out the best way to do that with incorporating the cover crops. I will probably try a few this year with the cover crop and no till, and the rest will get done with the standard system that has been used in the past where we just use a pitchfork to turn the soil over with the amendments.

For my light dep greenhouse we have switched entirely to no-till. The compost and dry amendments are layered on top of the pots and then I just sort of knead them into the top 6" or so of the soil with my hands. I did a bunch of strains side by side in my light dep last year with half being tilled and half being no-till. On average the no till plants grew slightly faster, yielded about 25% more, and it took a fraction of the time to amend the pots.

To top dress with cover crops or with no till you just scratch the dry amendments into the surface and then water them in heavily. The water and soil critters will do the rest for you. Most of the feeder roots for cannabis are in the top few inches of soil, and that is where the vast majority of chemical and biological activity occurs as well. You don't need to have your amendments distributed deep down into your soil - in fact in my opinion, it's a waste.

If you take a look at some of my threads you can see cover crops and no till plants in action. Hope that helps.

 

[Underthesun]

Well there are a lot of different techniques and styles for living soil, so everyone will have a different opinion. You will have to figure our what works best for you and your garden.

For mulches I prefer a coarse compost, preferably what is often referred to as a 'vineyard much' if I can find it. I like this type of mulch because it breaks down into the soil over a few months. This does mean that you have to re apply towards the end of summer when using it outdoors though.

A lot of people like using straw as well. It is inexpensive and does a good job of holding the moisture in but it takes a long time to break down (which can be either a pro or a con depending on what you want). However, if you are growing outdoors it also makes a nice nesting environment for voles, mice and other rodents, which in turn can girdle your plants, killing them as well as chew up your drip system. I always have a seriously high rodent population so I cannot use straw for my gardens - I've ended up with dead plants every time I've tried it. This is also why I don't use a living mulch - it makes it too easy for rodents to nest and hide in the garden. If you do not have rodent issues than living mulches can be a great way to mulch your plants - I may try living mulches in my greenhouse once it is built as I can more easily keep rodents out of an enclosed structure.

Our cover crops get seeded mid Nov, as soon as the last outdoor plant are harvested. A layer of manure and compost gets tossed on top of them to act as a mulch. They grow till about April 1, then get chopped down, and another layer of compost is added on top. In a week or so here we will be adding our other dry amendments and forking the soil to mix it in. I have done straight no-till with some of my outdoor plants but I am still figuring out the best way to do that with incorporating the cover crops. I will probably try a few this year with the cover crop and no till, and the rest will get done with the standard system that has been used in the past where we just use a pitchfork to turn the soil over with the amendments.

For my light dep greenhouse we have switched entirely to no-till. The compost and dry amendments are layered on top of the pots and then I just sort of knead them into the top 6" or so of the soil with my hands. I did a bunch of strains side by side in my light dep last year with half being tilled and half being no-till. On average the no till plants grew slightly faster, yielded about 25% more, and it took a fraction of the time to amend the pots.

To top dress with cover crops or with no till you just scratch the dry amendments into the surface and then water them in heavily. The water and soil critters will do the rest for you. Most of the feeder roots for cannabis are in the top few inches of soil, and that is where the vast majority of chemical and biological activity occurs as well. You don't need to have your amendments distributed deep down into your soil - in fact in my opinion, it's a waste.

If you take a look at some of my threads you can see cover crops and no till plants in action. Hope that helps.

Blaze, thanks for the time to help me out...I really appreciate it, man!

We do have lots of mice and pack rats around the foothills here. We catch them often on our deck. I have a vegetable garden that I'm trying out deep mulching with, I guess I'll see this year how many rodents we attract in that garden. I don't need any extra rattlesnakes around. I had thought the mulching may attract rats/mice but did not known they would kill your plants...I appreciate the warning.

I think I'm leaning toward just using compost and very minimal straw as a mulch this season. I think I'll hold off until after harvest to cover crop, since that is what I have mostly read and that sounds like your method as well. Plus, no rodent problem while growing. I like the idea of no-till, using cover crops in the off season. Chop em down in the spring, compost the top, then amend a few weeks before planting (my compost I think will have all my amendments already in it). Sounds like a plan! Man, that sounds so easy...been making soil for the last few years and sick of it.

This was really a big help. Thanks for getting my wheels spinning in the right direction. The pics on your Blazing Oaks were helpful, looks like a great spot/setup.

 

[str8smokn]

I'm thinking of chipping up some Apple and Fig limbs/sticks and covering in EWC for a week or two and try mulching with it during flowering.
Seeing if the sugers from them do anything to the micro life..
Always like organic info.
STR8

 

[Blaze]

I think I'll hold off until after harvest to cover crop, since that is what I have mostly read and that sounds like your method as well. Plus, no rodent problem while growing. I like the idea of no-till, using cover crops in the off season. Chop em down in the spring, compost the top, then amend a few weeks before planting (my compost I think will have all my amendments already in it). Sounds like a plan! Man, that sounds so easy...been making soil for the last few years and sick of it.

Once you get the hang of it, it is easy. It just takes more monitoring and planning out ahead of time compared to conventional methods. One of the most immediate benefits I've noticed that is often not mentioned is how much TIME it saves. Minimal weeding, no having to mix new soil every year, minimal tilling, etc. Also it will probably be a good idea to get a soil test once or twice a year once you starting doing this as well, just to make sure everything stays in balance and so you know how much and of what you need to add.

 

[Seamaiden]

Mulching/Cover Cropping:
Yes I will need this, or at least mulching. But what do you all prefer and why? I have seen some of you like to just use compost/castings, others like wood chips and some like cover crops. When using cover crops do you plant in the fall, spring, whenever you want? Do you till in your crops at a certain time of year, just chop them down, let them grow all around your plants? I just have not seen any pictures of cannabis and cover crops...pics would be nice if anyone has any. Also, if using cover crops and you also want to mulch, do you just start dumping compost and/or whatever you use on top of the cover crops? That leads to another question, how do you top dress with cover crops? Maybe I just need a visual image here.

I have taken *all* my organic gardening learning over to and from the market gardening sector. Eliot Coleman and the like. So for CC's along with cannabis I have some specific requirements--fast germinating, low-growing, low water demanding. I have found, for example, that clovers in a topsoil really need a good bit more water than something like fenugreek, which is still one of my alltime favorites for cover cropping. I will also use rye grass, and anything else that can also EASILY be chopped and dropped. That's how I do CC's, chop & drop. Mine have been going a few years now so they reseed themselves annually, sometimes biannually.

I don't mulch along with CCs, the CCs ARE the mulch, especially if you're doing a chop & drop method. This is also called green manuring.

Livng soil:
I plan to use this soil year after year. I assume I'll plant some cover crops in the fall and then what is the standard practice, if there is one, when you plant your plants in the spring. How do you re-amend the soil without tilling up the cover crops...or do you till?

Bioactive soil will continue to be alive as long as there's something living on it. I chop & drop usually, BUT there's nothing wrong with doing some judicious tilling. If I wish to till, or if I feel amendments are needed (and I do prefer to till those in) then that's what I do. If I have to till, then I reseed the cover crops. I haven't done any tilling since '11 when I did my knee though, and the soil is nicely friable and easily planted. I'm gonna miss my beds.

I'm thinking of chipping up some Apple and Fig limbs/sticks and covering in EWC for a week or two and try mulching with it during flowering.
Seeing if the sugers from them do anything to the micro life..
Always like organic info.
STR8

Anything woody is going to sequester N for a while. I personally would recommend allowing them to more fully decompose, to release that N and C storage. There won't be much in the way of sugars in any event via woody stocks.

 

[str8smokn]

@Seamaiden I was just wondering since the trees are in fruit mode. I figured the stems would be pushing sugars to the fruits.
I wasn't really thinking of it still being green . I guess I will need to let it dry out.
I have some from a couple yrs ago in a bucket,I might try it.
There should be some sugars seeing that's kind of the reason you smoke (cook ) with it. I think?
Just my thoughts though.
It couldn't hurt,could It ?
STR8

 

[LittleDabbie]

Vermicomposting:
I have been raising worms and harvesting vermicompost for about a year now. I want to expand and really get some high quality castings for next season, a year from now. I've just been using cardboard and and food, garden scraps. I'm sure this is excellent shiz, but maybe it could be even better. I read how Coots lets his worms eat up all his nutes, comfrey, barley straw and makes a killer compost after a year. I was thinking of doing this. Then I assume I could just top dress with this next season and have some really rad worm shiz. I was thinking of just using my cold compost as the bedding and then adding my nutes/minerals to that instead of using barley and comfrey. Any thought or advice on my vermicompost idea?

If you already feeding them a wide range of fruits and veggies theres really not much else to do, you could add some calcium carbonate and azomite two products i feed my worms once a week.. Past that make sure your harvesting the castings on a semi regular basis, you don't want the worms to process there own shit cause that will actually lower the nutrient vaule of the castings them selfs.

Fruits veggies and some powder azomite and calcium is all ive ran in my bins for the past cpl years now, I don't add paper i don't add cardboard i don't add leaves or shit from outside, just food scraps and powder..

I would just use the castings you get and worry about adding shit to your soil when your plants tell you they need more :)

 

[str8smokn]

I was told worms love Honey nut Cherrios. That's from a local worm farmer that I get my castings from.
So I throw those in mine occasionally .
STR8

 

[LittleDabbie]

I would generally avoid any food with preservatives in it, since the worms like bacteria and microbes that grow on the food.

What there really after in the cereal is the grains, Purina makes a worm chow with a bunch of grains in it, corn wheat soy barley litterally to many to list cause its like 40+ ingredints but anyway I actually feed them that too but thats just for breeding purposes, Dry chow don't make much castings and i dunno if it even makes very nutrient filled castings either.. maybe .. I buy 100lbs of it for like 38$ takes me a few months to go thru it all.. They do love it tho indeed i just use it to supplement the food supply when im low on kitchen scraps.

 

[Seamaiden]

@Seamaiden I was just wondering since the trees are in fruit mode. I figured the stems would be pushing sugars to the fruits.
I wasn't really thinking of it still being green . I guess I will need to let it dry out.
I have some from a couple yrs ago in a bucket,I might try it.
There should be some sugars seeing that's kind of the reason you smoke (cook ) with it. I think?
Just my thoughts though.
It couldn't hurt,could It ?
STR8

Won't really hurt, just be cognizant that woody parts tend to sequester N while the microbes do the dirty-dirty. If you're talking about using the actual fruits, then you're going to be getting a whole suite of secondary plant metabolites, sugars, P, K... probably little N relative to the vitamins and minerals I think.

 

[str8smokn]

No just limbs/twigs that feed the fruity tips. Might have some blooms still attached,but no fruits.
Thank you for your input. Always looking forward to your information.
STR8

 

[str8smokn]

I'm still learning on the worm stuff,so I appreciate that @LittleDabbie .
STR8

 

[keiksweat]

i

I'm still learning on the worm stuff,so I appreciate that @LittleDabbie .
STR8

I'm dying to start my own worm bins,I've been getting 40 litre sacks of quality casts for ;£40..so its just me being idle I suppose.hehe.what worms do you all recommend,for small scale,novice worm bin...?

 

[LittleDabbie]

Red Wigglers are the best composting worm, You can get others like euro crawlers but they don't eat nearly as much as red wigglers do.

 

[str8smokn]

I found a local red Wigglers farmer close by,and I get his Rain water EWC tea for free. About 30 gal or so.
But his EWC is $15 a 50 lb bag and $20 for 1lb of worms.
So I bought a lb of worms last time and will be trying to do a little farming myself.
@LittleDabbie how do You separate your castings?
STR8

 

[LittleDabbie]

I use gold pan/rock sifting screens that fit over 5 gallon buckets.

I've been considering building something but.. meh fucking lazy.

 

[keiksweat]

I found a local red Wigglers farmer close by,and I get his Rain water EWC tea for free. About 30 gal or so.
But his EWC is $15 a 50 lb bag and $20 for 1lb of worms.
So I bought a lb of worms last time and will be trying to do a little farming myself.
@LittleDabbie how do You separate your castings?
STR8

I bet that worm juice is excellent.amazing price.I'd buy a job lot of empty litre bottle and make a fortune on ebay.I've seen similar,well labeled stuff fetching £15 .im interested to hear how you separate your castings too.cheers.