Spider Mite, Root Aphids And Pesticides

[Greengrower8]

After a relentless battle with these root aphids, I have decided to try and chemically eliminate them from some of my vegging plants. I realize that many things claim to kill root aphids, but the fact is many don’t work. After much research, I think I will use Promis (imidacloprid). Does anyone have experience using this hydroponically? I can find info about soil drenching, etc, but some of the plants that need to be treated are already set up in their DWC buckets. From reading, it seems that 3 back to back treatments of this should kill all of these bastard aphids and keep them from coming back.

I’m also beginning treatments for spider mite, etc (elimination and prevention) on my vegging plants again, cuz since I’ve stopped they popped up in my flowering room again. I’ve already started treating them with Azamax which has worked for me before. But I know it’s best to rotate treating with more than one product. What else should I be preventatively treating them with? Spinosad? Pyrethrum? Sns? Or will the Azamax work well enough in conjunction with the imidacloprid?

 

[Dirtbag]

I've got some bad news for you... Those are two bugs you dont ever want to see at the same time.

Imid will nuke the RA's yes, but Imid has also been shown to increase the reproductive rate of two spotted spider mites by 30-40%. NEVER use Imid if you have spider mites. They will go berserk and be uncontrollable, it turns regular mites Into super mites that are pretty much unstoppable without using something very potent like Avid. And even then... No guarantee. If one spider mite survives Its going to be the strongest and most mutant unstoppable mite you've ever dealt with that will reproduce more of the same.

Personally, I'd take some carefull cuttings, dunk them in azamax or neem oil , and scrap the rest and start over. Or just scrap it all and start over. And clean the room out like it's never been cleaned before. Bleach everything, walls, floors, runoff trays, everything. Then I'd let off a pesticide fumigant, as well as burn sulphur in the room for like 7-8 hrs before I'd even think about putting plants in there again.

 

[Dbear180]

I've had good results in soil with promis but no exp in hydro. Demontrich told me about it. I dont see him here on the farm anymore but you can find his progress with it going thru his posts. I used it in the weakest treatment he had settled on which was like 1ml per gallon.

My guess would be to run it for a day in your system & flush it out. Repeat a few days later & see what happens. Keep in mind tho I have no exp with hydro, so I could be wrong about that, I'm sure someone will chime in with a better answer here soon.

Ive read people swearing up & down your done for if you get root aphids but mine were gone in about three weeks with btobtob treatments on over 12 plants. I cloned them & tossed them anyway because it was old stock. They really do suck the life outta your girls tho, they didnt look very happy, & I had no idea what I had going on til I pulled one up & saw the mass of them. My space is once again bug free & the clones I took are progressing along fast.

 

[1diesel1]

After a relentless battle with these root aphids, I have decided to try and chemically eliminate them from some of my vegging plants. I realize that many things claim to kill root aphids, but the fact is many don’t work. After much research, I think I will use Promis (imidacloprid). Does anyone have experience using this hydroponically? I can find info about soil drenching, etc, but some of the plants that need to be treated are already set up in their DWC buckets. From reading, it seems that 3 back to back treatments of this should kill all of these bastard aphids and keep them from coming back.

I’m also beginning treatments for spider mite, etc (elimination and prevention) on my vegging plants again, cuz since I’ve stopped they popped up in my flowering room again. I’ve already started treating them with Azamax which has worked for me before. But I know it’s best to rotate treating with more than one product. What else should I be preventatively treating them with? Spinosad? Pyrethrum? Sns? Or will the Azamax work well enough in conjunction with the imidacloprid?

Pure diatomaceous earth food grade mixed in the top 2 inches of top soil will kill any hatching larvae when it crawls to the surface. Like crawling through a bed of razor blade. I’m not sure if it can be applied to hydroponic resivour, something to think about though it is soluble.
Spider mites are a hole different subject. I make a homemade habenaro spray that works fantastic. You do not have to switch up on spraying anything else because they can’t become immune like they do to man made chemicals. But in the past when I get to lazy to make it I’ve used green cleaner and azatrol for preventative maintenance.

 

[Dbear180]

I've never had mites and root aphids @ the same time so dirt prob knows more about this subject & I'd really take into consideration what he said about the potential for super mites. I personally use forbid 4f if I feel mites or whiteflys are going to be an issue but that's only in veg & it's not very often Ive had to use it. I've never used forbid & promis @ the same time.

 

[1diesel1]

I’ve had them both at the same time in flower. Scared the hell out of me. Luckily the plants were so big damage was minimal and I had time to fight all those fuckers head on.

 

[Dirtbag]

Root aphids are relentless, trust me nothing really besides Imid will give you a complete kill. DE is useless on them especially in hydro.

You can try to beat this with chems, but I'm 99.9% sure one of those two pests will win in the end. They do not fuk around.

Ask yourself how much time you are willing to waste. Scrapping a grow is a really hard pill to swallow but sometimes it's the only correct treatment.

What stage of growth are they at?

 

[Dirtbag]

But sorry, to try and help...

If you want to fight this war, tackle the spider mites first. If you can find it use Avid, 3 days later apply spinosad as a spray and systemic in the res. Change res after 4 hrs. 10-14 days after first Avid application I'd apply it again.

A week later, inspect for any signs of mite... If you cant find any, go ahead a nuke with the Imid. Follow soil drench rates and add it to an old res just before lights come on. Let soak for 2-4 hrs and then change the res. From this point you will want to Veg for a few weeks more before flowering to be sure the systemics have run their course before harvest.

then cross your fingers and hope for the best.

 

[1diesel1]

Root aphids are relentless, trust me nothing really besides Imid will give you a complete kill. DE is useless on them especially in hydro.

You can try to beat this with chems, but I'm 99.9% sure one of those two pests will win in the end. They do not fuk around.

Ask yourself how much time you are willing to waste. Scrapping a grow is a really hard pill to swallow but sometimes it's the only correct treatment.

What stage of growth are they at?

DE works in soil, I’m not going to bull shit anyone about the use of it in soil.

Root aphids are relentless, trust me nothing really besides Imid will give you a complete kill. DE is useless on them especially in hydro.

You can try to beat this with chems, but I'm 99.9% sure one of those two pests will win in the end. They do not fuk around.

Ask yourself how much time you are willing to waste. Scrapping a grow is a really hard pill to swallow but sometimes it's the only correct treatment.

What stage of growth are they at?

whats up with the negative attitude?
He’s looking for help not a just throw em away answer. There’s ways to fight and save if he’s not to late. And DE does work I no from experience. Since I’ve started using DE I have not seen a root aphid since.
https://www.sensigarden.com/root-aphids-cannabis/

 

[Dirtbag]

DE works in soil, I’m not going to bull shit anyone about the use of it in soil.

whats up with the negative attitude?
He’s looking for help not a just throw em away answer. There’s ways to fight and save if he’s not to late. And DE does work I no from experience. Since I’ve started using DE I have not seen a root aphid since.
https://www.sensigarden.com/root-aphids-cannabis/

Sorry I dont mean to come off as negative, just realistic. I've dealt with both of those pests quite a bit and they have given me more headaches than I care to remember. I honestly wish someone would have given me the hard truth when I needed to hear it.

As for DE, I've used it quite a bit.. If the soil is bone dry it works to an extent. But it did jack squat to rid me of root aphids or fungus gnats. It works great in dry environments for killing fleas in the house etc. I've just never had any luck with it against persistent pests in the garden.

Best spider mite prevention in my opinion is burning sulphur once a week if you have a space that allows it. They dont like to even enter the room if its sulphury. Make a very inhospitable environment for mites. A spinosad drench has been shown to help kill spider mites too.

 

[Greengrower8]

I’ve been dealing with these root aphids for over two months, so I’m well aware of their behavior, how much they suck ass, blah blah blah. I have been controlling them naturally with Dalotia Coriaria (rove beetles) and frankly, they have been doing a tremendous job. But they have stopped short of totally eradicating them. I don’t think they are persisting in my vegging area well enough. This is the 3rd round of plants these aphids are on and I’ve had enough of trying to embrace nature. I will not be taking any new cuttings, etc to perpetuate things. I will finish the plants that are vegging now and then I will start from scratch. But I wanna kill what I can and protect these ones as best I can.

As far as the spider mite, I don’t really see them in the vegging area. I am going to give the Dalotia a bit more time to work and I will be treating the mite with Azamax in the meantime, so hopefully by the time I use the Promis there shouldn’t be any if there ever were. I’ve never heard of imidacloprid increasing spider mite. I did a search trying to find any info on this and was unable to find anything, so I’m not sure where the idea of imidacloprid created super all powerful spider mite comes from. But I think it’s a moot point in my case anyway.

 

[1diesel1]

Sorry I dont mean to come off as negative, just realistic. I've dealt with both of those pests quite a bit and they have given me more headaches than I care to remember. I honestly wish someone would have given me the hard truth when I needed to hear it.

As for DE, I've used it quite a bit.. If the soil is bone dry it works to an extent. But it did jack squat to rid me of root aphids or fungus gnats. It works great in dry environments for killing fleas in the house etc. I've just never had any luck with it against persistent pests in the garden.

Best spider mite prevention in my opinion is burning sulphur once a week if you have a space that allows it. They dont like to even enter the room if its sulphury. Make a very inhospitable environment for mites. A spinosad drench has been shown to help kill spider mites too.

Ya, The habenaro spray drives everything out of the grow room even me. It’s like mace to humans, spider mites and eggs it kills on contact. I have to wear a respirator and goggles when I spray.

 

[Dirtbag]

I’ve been dealing with these root aphids for over two months, so I’m well aware of their behavior, how much they suck ass, blah blah blah. I have been controlling them naturally with Dalotia Coriaria (rove beetles) and frankly, they have been doing a tremendous job. But they have stopped short of totally eradicating them. I don’t think they are persisting in my vegging area well enough. This is the 3rd round of plants these aphids are on and I’ve had enough of trying to embrace nature. I will not be taking any new cuttings, etc to perpetuate things. I will finish the plants that are vegging now and then I will start from scratch. But I wanna kill what I can and protect these ones as best I can.

As far as the spider mite, I don’t really see them in the vegging area. I am going to give the Dalotia a bit more time to work and I will be treating the mite with Azamax in the meantime, so hopefully by the time I use the Promis there shouldn’t be any if there ever were. I’ve never heard of imidacloprid increasing spider mite. I did a search trying to find any info on this and was unable to find anything, so I’m not sure where the idea of imidacloprid created super all powerful spider mite comes from. But I think it’s a moot point in my case anyway.

you must not have looked too hard, there are several papers on it. In summary, Imid kills natural predators and increases egg laying rates in mites.

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Direct_and_Systemic_Exposure_to_Imidacloprid

 

[Greengrower8]

you must not have looked too hard, there are several papers on it. In summary, Imid kills natural predators and increases egg laying rates in mites.

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Direct_and_Systemic_Exposure_to_Imidacloprid

Interesting. I knew it would kill any beneficials. Hopefully I can clear any spider mite out with the Azamax and maybe I’ll try that habanero spray - how do you make that diesel?

I can’t really burn sulfur in my vegging area, it’s not closed off enough. I’d have my whole house reeking like rotten eggs. But that is something to think about in the future. I know burning sulfur kills PM as well.

 

[Dirtbag]

Interesting. I knew it would kill any beneficials. Hopefully I can clear any spider mite out with the Azamax and maybe I’ll try that habanero spray - how do you make that diesel?

I can’t really burn sulfur in my vegging area, it’s not closed off enough. I’d have my whole house reeking like rotten eggs. But that is something to think about in the future. I know burning sulfur kills PM as well.

Might sound crazy to some, but when deciding where to grow, the abaility to burn sulphur for pest and mildew prevention led me to build an outdoor grow shed rather than grow in my house.
I haven't had PM or mites since. Knock on wood. Sulphur vapour has been a godsend for me.

 

[1diesel1]

There’s a step by step in my diary here’s the link. Be careful with it though, it’s hazardous to spider mites animals and humans but nice to your plants.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/posts/2229309/

 

[Dirtbag]

Also, the reason I recommend Avid despite the fact that it is a harsh pesticide is it will give you the best chance of a complete kill. And this is more important than most people realise.

If you use something that "controls" mites, and kills a bunch but not all of them, the survivors are likely the strongest outliers of the population. You kill the weaker more succeptable ones and leave the extremes, the hard to kill ones. And those are not what you want reproducing in your garden, especially at an increased rate thanks to IMID.

 

[Greengrower8]

I’m not sure I’m willing to go as far as using something that is a known hazardous chemical yet. It is my understanding that the imidacloprid should give a complete kill (not just control) and hopefully I can eliminate any spider mite beforehand. If there are any aphid super survivors, it is possible the Dalotia in the flowering room will still devour them.

The main thing is prevention. But the problem I find is going from vegging to flowering. I never have problems during veg. The original aphid outbreak occurred in the flowering plants not veg. Problems always happen when the plants stress while going into and ongoing into flower. And it’s at this point where you can’t really do anything to control anything. So you can prevent and prevent and treat and treat with whatever as much as you want in veg, but it has to persist throughout flower. I mean, you can’t burn sulfur during flower so does burning it during veg just help during veg or does it provide protection and prevention ongoing? Can I use the habanero spray during flower? Does using it during veg have a preventative protection? I was just using Azamax to prevent spider mite, which it was doing until I got bombed with aphids. Then I stopped using it to bring in beneficials and now mite are back. I’m just trying to find the best preventative measures that will work until harvest. It seems there are many preventative measures to use during veg, but not many of them persist throughout flower.

 

[Dirtbag]

You should never really use chemical pesticides as a prevention for stuff like mites and RA's. Save that stuff for treatment. Repeated use of pesticides with a single mode of action encourages pest resistance to those pesticides overall. It's not good for any of us.

And Imid will give you a total kill over RA's. I'd use 2 applications two weeks apart.
But It's the spider mites I'd be concerned about getting a total kill over before using Imid.

You're right though, prevention is key. I personally dont muck around much between prevention, and dropping the nuke though. If I decide to tackle something I need wiped out, I wipe it out completely. Or, i start over. Keep in mind there are only a couple pests this applies to. Most are just a nuisance and I dont take action for. That's the whole purpose of IPM, to determine thresholds for critical interventions.

With regards to Sulphur Vape, it can be used safely up until week 6 of flower if necessary despite what you might read. In Vapour form on a living plant surface it gets absorbed after a week and used as a ripening nutrient by the plant. But as a preventative it keeps the room clean and plants clean of mildew and botrytis spores going Into the flower phase, and a head start is better than nothing. I like to stop using it by week 3 of flower though.

 

[Greengrower8]

Interesting about the sulfur. I may have to redesign my vegging area so I can utilize it. Especially if it only needs to be done once a week. I could tent it somehow. How long does it need to burn exactly?
Ultimately I’d like to move my grow areas to my separate garage, etc but due to the climate here, there is still a lot of work to be done sealing and insulating it to be useable throughout the year.
I agree chemicals should not be the ultimate preventative answer. Also bombing or “wiping out” a room to where it has NO bugs is pretty much impossible. Bugs are resilient and can hide in the tiniest of places and survive the cleaning and sterilizing, etc.

Once these plants are done and it is a starting over point hopefully I can just add some Stratiolaelaps and Fallacis and they can keep things under control without the use of chemicals. But I do like the idea of adding in sulfur as well cuz I have dealt with PM in the past as well.