Seedlings with dying bottom leaves

[MIMedGrower]

The roots won't retract away because of light.
look at this, not an issue. These are the roots of cuttings taking but I have plants in flower full of roots wrapping round n round, exposed like this and it's no problem. I can't see that the light has any effect on the roots.
Id take a photo now to show you but lights are off
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and there's no way them tiny plants have used up all the nutes in the soil yet, repotting won't hurt though.

patience is key

Im glad you showed this. But i have to say the way the roots are growing looks like they are attracted to the light and head straight out to the edge and straight down.

Im only commenting on what i can see.

 

[London bud]

Im glad you showed this. But i have to say the way the roots are growing looks like they are attracted to the light and head straight out to the edge and straight down.

Im only commenting on what i can see.

I think it's caused because of the water running down the edges of the soil when it's dry more than it soaks in. I was gonna cover them up but I had no problems so left it. I think roots know they're underground because of the environment they're in, not because they're in the dark, I see no sign of green on them or nothing unusual.
If a root brakes through the top soil that's different, it may then grow a shoot not cos of the light but because of the change of environment. That's my current theory anyway.

And bare in mind the lights are directly above the plants so if the roots were attracted to it surely they'd grow up, not down looking for light?

 

[MIMedGrower]

I think it's caused because of the water running down the edges of the soil when it's dry more than it soaks in. I was gonna cover them up but I had no problems so left it. I think roots know they're underground because of the environment they're in, not because they're in the dark, I see no sign of green on them or nothing unusual.
If a root brakes through the top soil that's different, it may then grow a shoot not cos of the light but because of the change of environment. That's my current theory anyway.

And bare in mind the lights are directly above the plants so if the roots were attracted to it surely they'd grow up, not down looking for light?

Yeah on second thought i agree with you. Watering habits sure influence root growth pattern. I like scratch up the surface of the soil about 1/8” to 1/4”. The water penetrates much more evenly like that.

Some growers put a drop of liquid dish soap in which also helps penetrate soil. But i have not done that.

 

[skh]

Stems have something called a positive phototropic response because they grow toward blue and white light. Roots have a negative one because they grow away from it. Although roots will still grow they will not be at their optimum and have even been proven to have differing reactions to salt content of the medium in that they become more sensitive to it. That said, light does induce root growth for two reasons, the first is that as seedlings the roots need to grow quite quickly for anchorage and to find nutes, the second is to escape from light - which can happen on occasions of heavy rains or earthquakes.

It's definitely an interesting subject...

 

[MIMedGrower]

Well the tap root does always grow up to the surface and turn right around and go straight down away from the light.

Now i must research...........


:-)

 

[skh]

Light also penetrates a few mil into the soil. It's also why hydro growers should and mostly do (as far as I know) grow in containers designed to prevent light getting in.

 

[London bud]

I agree it would probably be best not to have the roots exposed to light but from what I witness personally the roots don't seem to react to it in any noticeable or measurable way.
If roots actively grew away from the light then they wouldn't be visible in my photo would they?

 

[skh]

I agree it would probably be best not to have the roots exposed to light but from what I witness personally the roots don't seem to react to it in any noticeable or measurable way.
If roots actively grew away from the light then they wouldn't be visible in my photo would they?

Of course they would... because roots grow. That you've forced them to grow in an environment where light hits the outside of the containers cannot be helped by the root system. The roots will still grow. They will just grow away from the light as much as they can. The roots on the outside of the pot will adapt much like a root exposed on the surface... their effectiveness as a root questionable.

I'm not just making this shit up. It's real science. First observed by Darwin. If roots grew toward light as claimed in this thread then how would they know to grow downward? Plants, that's the stems, leaves, and roots are all light reactive. That it doesn't seem to harm your plants doesn't carry much weight when you consider all of the scientific research that has gone into proving that roots are light reactive.

 

[MIMedGrower]

@skh is correct.

 

[London bud]

Of course they would... because roots grow. That you've forced them to grow in an environment where light hits the outside of the containers cannot be helped by the root system. The roots will still grow. They will just grow away from the light as much as they can. The roots on the outside of the pot will adapt much like a root exposed on the surface... their effectiveness as a root questionable.

I'm not just making this shit up. It's real science. First observed by Darwin. If roots grew toward light as claimed in this thread then how would they know to grow downward? Plants, that's the stems, leaves, and roots are all light reactive. That it doesn't seem to harm your plants doesn't carry much weight when you consider all of the scientific research that has gone into proving that roots are light reactive.

Your quoting Darwin and other texts you've read but I'm telling you from real life experience. The roots do not grow away from the light nor do they grow towards the light,nothing noticeable anyway, nor do they know to grow downwards, they grow towards water and nutrients.
I bet if you set a plant in a pot upside down With the light underneath shining upwards the plant would grow down towards the light and the roots would grow up in to the soil looking for water.

 

[London bud]

Perhaps any effect the light has on the roots would be more noticeable in hydro as all the roots would be exposed where as in a clear container filled with soil like mine the majority of the roots are still hidden by the soil. I've got 15 plants in containers like this in flower wit no problems, I was going to cover the roots because I thought the light would cause a problem of some sort but 've had no issues. I've got no reason to believe the exposed roots aren't doing their job, or behaving normally, they're obviously growing, winding round and branching off.

@skh You tried to tell this guy who started this thread that his cups were letting to much light through and it could be causing problems, that is absolutely not true

 

[Ina]

That's why i was using beer bottles,because they were brown,at least a little less light.i also left the label for that purpose.But the beer in these bottles is awful,I prefer water:)I saw 3lt beer in dark plastic bottles these days but no way to buy even one to try hahaha May be if i find them on the trash somewhere.Cheap Bulgarian beer you don't wanna know what that is!:D
Very interesting and I agree with both of you somehow?!:DThe roots suppose to sit in dark,i am sure about that.But I also use transparent cups and never found any issue.....Just in case i'm trying to avoid light but I don't think it is such a big deal if the small plants are in transparent cups for a while.If their leaves are not quite well I suppose that is not the main reason but the need of transplanting and may be the soil/watering like it was mentioned......

 

[MIMedGrower]

Perhaps any effect the light has on the roots would be more noticeable in hydro as all the roots would be exposed where as in a clear container filled with soil like mine the majority of the roots are still hidden by the soil. I've got 15 plants in containers like this in flower wit no problems, I was going to cover the roots because I thought the light would cause a problem of some sort but 've had no issues. I've got no reason to believe the exposed roots aren't doing their job, or behaving normally, they're obviously growing, winding round and branching off.

@skh You tried to tell this guy who started this thread that his cups were letting to much light through and it could be causing problems, that is absolutely not true

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You may feel that there is no problem and if you are happy there isn't one. But those rootballs are not optimal. And the article I posted explains that they suffer from more problems as well. I want the best results i can possibly get and in text and visually I can see roots should be kept in the dark.

In my opinion from all the facts shown and discussed and my own experience. :-)

 

[skh]

Yeah, they don't look like healthy roots to me either. I also didn't say that it was the roots that was the problem... it's really difficult to diagnose things in my own grow as there are so many variables to consider. I was just throwing stuff out there that could be causing the issue. Light hitting the roots will affect the way they take up nutes - if only because they are more sensitive to salts. This has been shown to be true in hydro set-ups. Plants are hardy, they get through and adapt... but to do that maybe they have to sacrifice elsewhere.

Also, what I meant by downward was into the soil. I've seen plants grown upside down. The roots always grow into the dark soil and the plant bends around and grows toward the light.

 

[London bud]

You may feel that there is no problem and if you are happy there isn't one. But those rootballs are not optimal. And the article I posted explains that they suffer from more problems as well. I want the best results i can possibly get and in text and visually I can see roots should be kept in the dark.

In my opinion from all the facts shown and discussed and my own experience. :)

I'm gonna have a read through the article this evening when I get a chance.
I absolutely agree roots would be better off in the dark but I can't be bothered to wrap 15 bottles. And it's not like I have the lights shining on the roots. The bottles are packed tight so it's minimal. Definitely agree dark would be better, I'm not suggesting people start lighting there roots, am simply saying there is no noticeable deficiency or damage to the plant caused by it in soil, the effects cannot be realised by looking, a measured side by side grow would be needed to show the difference.


But light on roots as a reason for the issue posted here is way out there

 

[MIMedGrower]

I'm gonna have a read through the article this evening when I get a chance.
I absolutely agree roots would be better off in the dark but I can't be bothered to wrap 15 bottles. And it's not like I have the lights shining on the roots. The bottles are packed tight so it's minimal. Definitely agree dark would be better, I'm not suggesting people start lighting there roots, am simply saying there is no noticeable deficiency or damage to the plant caused by it in soil, the effects cannot be realised by looking, a measured side by side grow would be needed to show the difference.


But light on roots as a reason for the issue posted here is way out there

I didnt say it was. I said likely overwatering and agreed the roots may have grown like that due to it.

I did not know the answers to the roots questions posed so i researched and posted my findings.

 

[London bud]

I didnt say it was. I said likely overwatering and agreed the roots may have grown like that due to it.

I did not know the answers to the roots questions posed so i researched and posted my findings.

Sorry , worded a bit wrong. I didn't mean you said that the issue could be light on roots. Your knowledge is evident as I read your stuff on here, i know you wouldn't come out with that
@skh I'm sorry I do t mean to argue or come across rude, forgive me if I do. I'm passionate and do enjoy a bit of debating.
even though we disagree a little I am enjoying reading your stuff ✌

 

[skh]

Maybe it's a stretch, but if he pots up it might solve whatever issue he has. To be honest, I ignore a lot of this stuff in soil in my own grows. It's usually nothing or something the plant has already sorted itself. If I was this guy though, even knowing all that, I'd still pot up. Give the plants some room to grow.