Help please! Slow growing plants in coco not drying out

[Aqua Man]

Exactly man. I think people go straight to hydro with coco due to the cyclical fertigation strategy that allows for the explosive growth. Because you use a lot of water with a DTW coco setup. But soil, hydro, and coco have different approaches with regard to technique that will trip people up if they are not aware of them.

I have been a victim of this. But hey as long as we learn from our mistakes they don't go in vien

 

[Dirtbag]

I have been a victim of this. But hey as long as we learn from our mistakes they don't go in vien

So true. Some lessons are more valuable than the pot itself. Not many, but some lol.

 

[Oblivi0us]

One more quick question I was reading justiceman’s coco pinned post and wow I was blown away by information. He said he feeds 30oz or about 2 Dixie cups worth of water twice a day. Would that be more beneficial than once a day watering at 20% runoff

 

[Enforcer]

One more quick question I was reading justiceman’s coco pinned post and wow I was blown away by information. He said he feeds 30oz or about 2 Dixie cups worth of water twice a day. Would that be more beneficial than once a day watering at 20% runoff

I’m saying AT LEAST once a day. I say that to not scare people away. Because that is the minimum amount necessary to support the plant. But I also tell people that I do much more than that. The truth is that the more fertigation events you can deliver per day the faster they will grow. So yes, it would be more beneficial.

 

[Vondank420]

When I did coco I did things a bit differently. Before transplanting I'd wet the coco with a very mild nutrient solution about 0.6-0.7 ec and ph 5.7-5.8.
After transplant for the first week I wouldnt water them at all until they felt lightweight. That period of dryback makes the roots grow out looking for food and water.

After about a week when I saw roots poking out the bottom is when I started feeding every other day, and by 2 weeks in veg it was daily. Pretty much exactly how I'm doing things in rockwool now.

A small root system wont grow out very fast into a fully saturated medium. For that first week I like to keep things on the slightly drier side until my roots are established.

But I only did a few grows in coco so I'm no expert. YMMV.

This is how I basically start ^^^^

 

[Oblivi0us]

I’m saying AT LEAST once a day. I say that to not scare people away. Because that is the minimum amount necessary to support the plant. But I also tell people that I do much more than that. The truth is that the more fertigation events you can deliver per day the faster they will grow. So yes, it would be more beneficial.

awesome! You are my hero. Ok last question I swear! Lol.

I also posted on rollitup forums and a fellow on there is telling me my nutrient feed schedule is at about 1/4 strength that it should be. And that I’m NOT going to get the explosive growth im looking for feeding it that light.

Do you have any suggestions that I should add more of anything to make it a more sensible use of nutrients and coco? Should I just go full strength?

this is the guide I’m using: https://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-grow-cannabis-315-lec-grow-light

I’ll reupload the schedule so you can quickly see it. She does say in the text she is using the nutes at half strength and emphasizes that.
also in the text she says to use nutes every watering, but in the schedule I uploaded she says every other watering. I’m going to assume nutrients every watering is ideal since coco is inert. Thank you again for all your wonderful insight!

 

[Enforcer]

awesome! You are my hero. Ok last question I swear! Lol.

I also posted on rollitup forums and a fellow on there is telling me my nutrient feed schedule is at about 1/4 strength that it should be. And that I’m NOT going to get the explosive growth im looking for feeding it that light.

Do you have any suggestions that I should add more of anything to make it a more sensible use of nutrients and coco? Should I just go full strength?

this is the guide I’m using: https://www.growweedeasy.com/how-to-grow-cannabis-315-lec-grow-light

I’ll reupload the schedule so you can quickly see it. She does say in the text she is using the nutes at half strength and emphasizes that.
also in the text she says to use nutes every watering, but in the schedule I uploaded she says every other watering. I’m going to assume nutrients every watering is ideal since coco is inert. Thank you again for all your wonderful insight!

Thank you, I just want to see people succeed in coco. Because I see it described wrong a lot. Nebula has a great site and loads of info. However, neither she nor Sirius are coco growers.

When mixing your nutrient solution, you’ll want to mix it at full strength. Then dilute with RO (or similar zero or low ppm) water until your desired EC is reached. After you do this a few times, you’ll get the measurements down. You’re doing it this way to maintain the Nutrient Element Ratio (NER) intended by the manufacturer, but control the strength of the solution and not burn the plant. Yes, nutrients every time.

So with that in mind, start low and increase the EC as needed. Don’t listen to me...listen to the plant.

 

[bunkerking]

Enforcer is da man.

Isnt 4-5ml a gallon of calmag really high? Its like 5% Ca with your bottle.

I wonder if you are getting a potassium toxicity** due to the high amount of calmag.
This causes mag def - so if you keep pushing and it doesn't improve. Try reducing it.

 

[bunkerking]

Exactly man. I think people go straight to hydro with coco due to the cyclical fertigation strategy that allows for the explosive growth. Because you use a lot of water with a DTW coco setup. But soil, hydro, and coco have different approaches with regard to technique that will trip people up if they are not aware of them.

and yep. Dunning Kruger.

The less you know, the more you think you know.

 

[cemchris]

Nothing to add bit this useless statement.

I'm a hydro grower and I know coco should not be compared to soil and is often referred to as hydro. I can say from observation on the forum that I feel it should not be compared to hydro either. There are just to many differences that I my self confuse and give info that may not be the best but makes sense to me when applying hydro processes that I feel I have a very strong grasp on.

Short version I feel coco is not even close to hydro... Or dirt for that matter.

It's awesome reading different experiences of knowledgeable growers in the same media and provides me some great learning experiences. After all it's the ability to apply knowledge to different scenarios that makes a good grower since there is no one fix for any problem in my view.

It's actually no different then rockwool or silica rocks honestly. Early veg is a little different and watering to runoff is a little different but they all come into line about week 3 after transplant. Flower they all run the same as long as you aren't using obscenely big pots. I didnt even change my flower timers going from hugos back to coco. Same feeds and nutes. Same waterings.

 

[cemchris]

Enforcer is da man.

Isnt 4-5ml a gallon of calmag really high? Its like 5% Ca with your bottle.

I wonder if you are getting a potassium toxicity** due to the high amount of calmag.
This causes mag def - so if you keep pushing and it doesn't improve. Try reducing it.

Not running the micro that low. It's at about 93-101 ppm of Ca which isnt a big deal. I'm always over 100 ppm. If you get to 5ml or above of micro you just cut the calimagic out completely. PPM are most likely low with that schedule tho. I always used 6-4-4 for veg per gal. Came out around 700ish-800ish. Ride it out and see if it works. If they look hungry after a while, and your watering is on point (big if), bump that.

Calimagic --> Micro --> Grow --> Bloom right on mixing order?

 

[Aqua Man]

It's actually no different then rockwool or silica rocks honestly. Early veg is a little different and watering to runoff is a little different but they all come into line about week 3 after transplant. Flower they all run the same as long as you aren't using obscenely big pots. I didnt even change my flower timers going from hugos back to coco. Same feeds and nutes. Same waterings.

Yeah all the drain to waste/flood and drain systems seem to be nothing like our hydro to me. One thing I don't see much of is a constant recirculating drip system. I think this would be a great way to grow. Maybe you can fill me in on that? Why is this not more common?

 

[cemchris]

Yeah all the drain to waste/flood and drain systems seem to be nothing like our hydro to me. One thing I don't see much of is a constant recirculating drip system. I think this would be a great way to grow. Maybe you can fill me in on that? Why is this not more common?

Let me say after about 12 years on recirc ebb tables with about ever medium you can throw on tables. A true ebb recirc head...fuck recirc.

It's just too much work compared to DTW. Constant PH adjusting. Playing the add back game. Rez changes. If I was using something like Canna, H&G or Advanced hell yeah I would recirc so I didnt go broke on nutes lol.

Now it's set the PH on mix. Fill rez when empty. That's it. Constant ratio feed. No lockouts or def. Oh don't feel like mixing nutes or not going to home tonight? 5 gal bucket of nutes from a different rez. We good for 24 hrs. The simplicity of it. I feel recirc is like working harder not smarter.

 

[Aqua Man]

Let me say after about 12 years on recirc ebb tables with about ever medium you can throw on tables. A true ebb recirc head...fuck recirc.

It's just too much work compared to DTW. Constant PH adjusting. Playing the add back game. Rez changes. If I was using something like Canna, H&G or Advanced hell yeah I would recirc so I didnt go broke on nutes lol.

Now it's set the PH on mix. Fill rez when empty. That's it. Constant ratio feed. No lockouts or def. Oh don't feel like mixing nutes or not going to home tonight? 5 gal bucket of nutes from a different rez. We good for 24 hrs. The simplicity of it. I feel recirc is like working harder not smarter.

Makes perfect sense bro

 

[cemchris]

Makes perfect sense bro

Honestly If i was ever going to do DWC again I would drain and refill the system once a week at this point.

 

[Aqua Man]

Honestly If i was ever going to do DWC again I would drain and refill the system once a week at this point.

Lots do... I only do small water changes keeps things stable but that the aquarist in me once you get those lil microbes set it releases me in terms of root health. No need to worry about that to much in DTW.... Well not as much. We will see how this grow goes with no hydrogaurd after the first 2 weeks I usually stop it at flowering but I also usually have my denitrifying bacteria in full swing before starting not this time so crossing my fingers.

 

[Oblivi0us]

I love everyone’s insights! Love learning lol. So I googled what is the best nutrient guide for flora trio and came across an old thread on icmag from h3ad doing Lucas formula. I have switched to this formula and I have had more growth in 2 days then I had all week. Also watering twice a day... hard for us soil growers to get used to the concept that saturation is key in coco.
I am now doing. 6ml micro , 1/2ml gro, 9ml bloom, and if needed doing 2.5ml calmg per gal.
read through about 250 pages everyone’s thoughts on the 6/9 and basically everyone loved it. I will go to the suggested 6-4-4 if I find 6/9 to be too hott. A few differences here and there depending how the plants responded. I ordered my tdm/ec and ph meter will be here tomorrow night to really start dialing this in. Thank you so much again y’all are fantastic

 

[bunkerking]

I love everyone’s insights! Love learning lol. So I googled what is the best nutrient guide for flora trio and came across an old thread on icmag from h3ad doing Lucas formula. I have switched to this formula and I have had more growth in 2 days then I had all week. Also watering twice a day... hard for us soil growers to get used to the concept that saturation is key in coco.
I am now doing. 6ml micro , 1/2ml gro, 9ml bloom, and if needed doing 2.5ml calmg per gal.
read through about 250 pages everyone’s thoughts on the 6/9 and basically everyone loved it. I will go to the suggested 6-4-4 if I find 6/9 to be too hott. A few differences here and there depending how the plants responded. I ordered my tdm/ec and ph meter will be here tomorrow night to really start dialing this in. Thank you so much again y’all are fantastic

I think of it like a gas tank. Your fuel always has enough nutes/air to run right. As the tank gets depleted, you refill it back up. Replacing the "used fuel" with new. Resetting the media back to that ideal strength of nutes & air. The more we keep it in that perfect range (how often we feed), the harder it grows.

and lol yah. Try not to aim for massive growth, try to aim for health. The growth will come.

 

[bunkerking]

@Enforcer - Are you generally growing from seed?

I totally agree with your theory but....

man clones dont build roots like seeds. The tap root is gonna dig deep and branch out hard. So your plants already build a strong lower root system right off the bat. Giving it the ability to pull up water down there.

Maybe its what im doing but. Clones roots are lazy. If they have enough water/nutes from the constant feeding. They just dont appear to really go searching unless you force them by cutting back on watering after transplant. Water them when the pots feel light, until you are feeding once a day.

I think thats what @Dirtbag is talking about atleast.

 

[Aqua Man]

@Enforcer - Are you generally growing from seed?

I totally agree with your theory but....

man clones dont build roots like seeds. The tap root is gonna dig deep and branch out hard. So your plants already build a strong lower root system right off the bat. Giving it the ability to pull up water down there.

Maybe its what im doing but. Clones roots are lazy. If they have enough water/nutes from the constant feeding. They just dont appear to really go searching unless you force them by cutting back on watering after transplant. Water them when the pots feel light, until you are feeding once a day.

I think thats what @Dirtbag is talking about atleast.

I have to disagree this is not soil. Plants will grow roots to be able to sufficiently provide the plants with water, nutrients and oxygen. In soil its beneficial to have a root system that's spread out so its not just in a small tight space depleting it of these (especially oxygen). In soiless its not really a necessity and that's why you can grow in much smaller pots since water, nutrients and oxygen are replenished with feedings and its ability for air capacity and exchange are far greater (this is where drainage is key). This is not the case in soil when its saturated with water the soil doesn't breath and you essentially end up cutting oxygen out of the equation in turn causing problems. In soiless this saturation drains and as it does its pulling in air to the media. If you treat soiless like soil you are reducing the effectiveness of the media. People really need to stop comparing it to soil.... and to hydro for that matter.

Thats kinda the whole point... they don't need to go searching. If they do its wasted energy in my view. They just increase root mass to be able to acquire what they need... why do they need to go searching? In soil they do in soiless/hydro they do not... they just increase root mass