Stunted growth during veg? How to fix ?

[Vss]

Hey guys,

Question.

Had these purple punches vegging in a separate room under a gavita at 600 watts, growing just fine. These plants were than moved to a different room which has 4 gavita leds 1700e.. in-line fan bringing in air from outside instead of AC.

It has been in this room now for about 3 weeks. It hit stress after it was transplanted into bigger pots and moved into this room. Since then it has maybe grown 1 inch at max. This was under 24 hour veg cycle 64-80 degrees humidity dropped initially but the last week or two we have been running it at 18/6.. temp around 70-85 humidity at 50-75%. These were good looking plants up until the room change and the transplant. They have been vegging now for like 2 months. Trying to fix the stunted growth issue as well as the clawing and yellowing of leaves. Any advice, what’s the cause ? How can I fix???

Threw pryrethreum in the room last week and hit with avid 3 days later. Noticed a mite problem . Also flushed with just water and hydroguard.

I understand they may have gone into stress bc too cold and unstable weather conditions but we’ve done s significantly better job at maintains 75-83 in day and about 68-72 at night...

The plants are drinking the water, we just watered them for the first time since we flushed about 4 days ago. Usual ppm after adding nutes is about 1200-1300...

Open to any help, advice tricks or constructive criticism. It is my first run and I know there have been some obvious problems but has anyone else experienced something like this?...


Also one last thing, the first 24-36 hours they we’re under these gavita leds the lights we’re lowered to be 18” above the plants. Than we thought that caused it and we raised them Much higher . Thanks guys please help me save my purple punch

 

[Vss]

I understand the redness in some of the leaves is from a mite attack. But what my biggest concern is why are the leaves not growing, they are all curling down, barely growing, what will even happen if I flip this into flower???

 

[Deadstill]

Looks like a pretty bad mite infestation. Spider mites are essentially suckling the life out of your plants. One of my buddies had a bad infestation of both red and two spotted spider mites and his plants looked just like that. Growing in soil or a soil like medium makes it even harder to tackle the problem. I'd say invest in some good Neem oil and Diatomaceous Earth. Spray the plants with neem and give the top of the soil a nice dusting with DE to kill mothers who winter in dirt. Repeat every other day for 2 weeks at least.

 

[BigCube]

First you need to solve your pest problems. I would stay away from neem oil, that shit NEVER comes off your plants and tastes like shit. I would rather start all over again than use neem oil.

I would look in to beneficial nematodes, they are relatively cheap and very effective. They dont harm your plants, and they fuckoff once all the food (pests) is gone.

A lot of your foliage looks fucked, none of that is ever going to be ok again. Fight off the pests, let the plant recover for a while, then strip every single damaged leaf off of every plant.

Hope you get it figured out man.

 

[oldskol4evr]

why would you feed a plant that young 12 to 1300 ppm?if you flipped these it would just finish then off

 

[Deadstill]

First you need to solve your pest problems. I would stay away from neem oil, that shit NEVER comes off your plants and tastes like shit. I would rather start all over again than use neem oil.

I would look in to beneficial nematodes, they are relatively cheap and very effective. They dont harm your plants, and they fuckoff once all the food (pests) is gone.

A lot of your foliage looks fucked, none of that is ever going to be ok again. Fight off the pests, let the plant recover for a while, then strip every single damaged leaf off of every plant.

Hope you get it figured out man.

That's why I recommend only using neem in Veg. It's not supposed to come off easily because while neem works great for getting rid of spider mites, it works even better as a preventative measure.

I recommend using Garden Safe brand Neem Oil Extract Concentrate. It doesn't contain any azadirachtine which stays in the plant for a long time, and azadirachtine is not necessary for killing spider mites. Also this brand doesnt smell as bad as other brands like Dyna-Gro.

Neem, if done correctly, is your best option for mites if you're still in Veg. I always spray neem at least twice during veg as a preventative measure, because here in Colorado, spider mites are prevalent. I've been using neem for years and years so if you have any questions on the whole process don't be afraid to ask. One of these days I will make a nice little neem guide for spider mites and pest/PM control.

 

[Deadstill]

Also, with your PPMs that high can I take a wild guess and assume you are not using pure RO water as your base? From the pictures and what you have described with stunted growth, it looks like you might have some calcium toxicity going on causing lockout of potassium and other important nutrients.

What's your water source?

 

[Beachwalker]

That does look a lot like I remember my two-spotted infestation only I had webs everywhere I'm wondering if OP found any webs?

That seems a bit ambitious for your first grow if I'm reading that correctly? Regardless if I had an infestation like that I would consider starting again after a very good cleaning

If I was going to try to save it I've never had luck with neem oil I would go as strong as humanely and legally possible with chemicals as often as possible, but what do I know I didn't win the battle, the mites did, I'm 0 & 2 against spider mites :/

 

[Deadstill]

That does look a lot like I remember my two-spotted infestation only I had webs everywhere I'm wondering if OP found any webs?

That seems a bit ambitious for your first grow if I'm reading that correctly? Regardless if I had an infestation like that I would consider starting again after a very good cleaning

If I was going to try to save it I've never had luck with neem oil I would go as strong as humanely and legally possible with chemicals as often as possible, but what do I know I didn't win the battle, the mites did, I'm 0 & 2 against spider mites :/

Yeah they can be resilient little bastards. It's really important to thoroughly spray the entire plant over/under leaves and repeat every other day. Even missing one spray gives enough time for them to repopulate. I've had to spray every other day for as long as an entire month to get rid of heavy infestations. And if the OP is foliar feeding/spraying anything at all, or has strong fans, it's likely he won't see many webs at all.

Good oscillating fans help in preventing mites, too. They don't like windy environments.

 

[Vss]

Hey guys thanks for the responses it’s apprciated.

I was told if I put a bomb and then spray with avid it should come back to life. So those are the precautionary measures I took after I realized that redness is a base mite problem. After I threw the bomb and avid it has certainly gotten better the look but the leaves are still pointed down..

As far as the ppm levels, the tap over here is around 700-800 after adding my nutes it jumps up. Recently purchased an RO filter, today I will get the timer or stopper and begin to fill my reservoir and start watering with the correct ppm levels...

So you guys recommend using neem oil every 2 days for another 2 weeks to help new growth and then flip to flower correct? Again thank you guys.

 

[Vss]

Yeah they can be resilient little bastards. It's really important to thoroughly spray the entire plant over/under leaves and repeat every other day. Even missing one spray gives enough time for them to repopulate. I've had to spray every other day for as long as an entire month to get rid of heavy infestations. And if the OP is foliar feeding/spraying anything at all, or has strong fans, it's likely he won't see many webs at all.

Good oscillating fans help in preventing mites, too. They don't like windy environments.

Hi I have not been foliar spraying but I do have severa oscillating fans that I leave on to prevent them from spreading so fast (so research states)

 

[Deadstill]

As far as the ppm levels, the tap over here is around 700-800 after adding my nutes it jumps up. Recently purchased an RO filter, today I will get the timer or stopper and begin to fill my reservoir and start watering with the correct ppm levels...

That's what I figured. Yeah once you start feeding with RO water and proper nutrients you're going to see a complete turn around in your plants. Definitely tackle those mites as hard as you can before you go into flower. But yes 700-800 ppm out the tap is pretty hard I'm sure you had way too much calcium and magnesium and who knows what else may be in your water. RO is the way to go

 

[dire wolf]

Hey vss, i dont have a lot of posts here, but i do have a bit of experience, as painful as it may sound, i would toss them and start fresh, no disrespect, but it looks like it will be more of a time consuming headache trying to recover from the issues You have.

 

[Oh gosh]

What @BigCube said. Never had success with neem oil, never kills the eggs. Just end up spraying over and over. Some grow stores carry beneficial, call around. Additionally there might be a two fold problem here with the mites and the additional lighting you added. Perhaps dim lights a bit or raise. Lots of purple, maybe do a slurry test and calibrate your meter before hand. You have alot invested here, flipping them now when there stressed wont help a thing. Deep breath, go for a walk, reevaluate starting from the basics. Try to get them healthy before flip is my suggestion. Sorry bro, been there.

 

[dire wolf]

Hey vss ,also, in my opinion , im not sure what purple punch is,but some of the purple / blue or blueberry strains like dj short genetics can be a little difficult for a first grow,
Obviously you did a lot of cloning, and a lot of work to get to the point you are at, but usually its not just the leaves, your entire plant is stressed including the root system, also nematodes arent going to remedy your mite problem, neem is good stuff in my opinion and would certainly use it as a first step to knock out the mites...
I think , judging from the pics, if you actually see mites ( and its easy to see) then those plants are pretty far gone,
When you have to start reviving plants at this stage its a big headache
It might take you a month to get them back on track, and in my opinion, it wasnt you or your skills, some plants just go down fast and wont recover.....
Maybe go with a easy strain or even some popular seeds and start over, some strains are mite magnets, slow Growers, overall pain in the ass to grow....
Save your sanity, toss em and get another grow going

 

[dire wolf]

Also, i could be wrong but nematodes are usually used for thrips and fungus gnats that lay eggs under the soil and damage the root zone

 

[Bmg1982]

You have a cyclamen/broad/russet mite problem, symptoms look like cyclamen, but treatment is same for all of the above.

Beauveria bassiana is your only hope.

 

[Vss]

Hey guys thank you all for the input I appreciate it!

So yesterday, defoliatedthe entire plants left only decent looking leaves. It was definitely looking better. Today I will make a few purchases and let you know how I treat it from here on out/ I will be taking into consideration all the advice you have given me in an attempt to save these guys! Will post some pics later. And note how I am tackling the problem!

 

[Bmg1982]

If you have access to a 30x - 50x microscope that will help you identify which critter you're dealing with. The aforementioned mites can't be seen via the naked eye.

The stunted growth is due to the fact that your plants are under a pathogenic attack, those micro mites are nasty little fuckers and the last thing you want to see in your garden.

I'd start by cleaning your grow area with a 1:10 bleach water solution, you'll have to move your plants.

Your intake fan needs filtered, asap, you may be dealing with outside environment issues, broad mites in particular love citric trees, etc.

Avid is a good start, but avoid using 60 days pre harvest. Aspirin, should be added to your next watering at a rate of 75mg per gallon, need to get those SA pathways firing again.

Invest in Botanigard ES, and get used to an "IPM" is my best advice. My ULV fogger is now my best friend.

 

[Bmg1982]

... also to follow up on Integrated Pest Management or "IPM" considering you are still in veg, is that you can make your own with items purchased from your local Walmart.

I typically mix the following per liter of water.
- 2 drops lavender oil
- 2 drops rosemary oil
- 2 drops peppermint oil
- 2 drops eucalyptus oil
- 4 ml cocunut oil
- 2 ml Johnson's baby shampoo
- 1 tsp Diatomaceous earth

Way cheaper than IC3(great product!), and your plants will appreciate the coconut oil more so than all of the mineral oil based pesticides out there.

... Discontinue use at first sight of pistils.

True story from a broad mite survivor.