The untold by “SECRETE” by the Top growers on how to Maximize Cannabis yields in Indoor Environments

[Judaz]

Crac systems are the shit!
Way to expensive for me, maybe someday.
We just pulled 2 out of a tenants space that went belly up. I think the boss sold those used for 10g a piece used.

Yes very expensive unless you figure out a way to make a regular ac work similar to a crac ac which is what we have done and saved thousands of dollars by using a combo of the V-flow, standard 2-split ac system with an added heating unit controlled with nest wireless system and a vpd controller built into the lighting system for less than 1/2 the cost of a crac ac. The small investment is pennies on the dollar to the extra consistent weight gains you get.

A computer room air conditioning (CRAC) unit is a device that monitors and maintains the temperature, air distribution and humidity in a network room or data center. CRAC units are replacing air-conditioning units that were used in the past to cool data centers.

 

[Judaz]

The goal of an indoor commercial grower is to maximize weight and quality to be able to create a profitable business that caters to the right niche cannabis market. A connoisseur market comparable to the fine wine market space. The need for indoor cultivators of cannabis to keep evolving their knowledge for better methods and practices of cultivating with the aim to control all aspects of environment, is the only way for them to stay afloat and compete against the light dep farms that are proving as the most efficient way to cultivate cannabis for maximum yield at lowest costs but at a cost of not being able to produce a product at par with indoor quality. Indoor growers, the cannabis connoisseurs have realized the importance to create precise indoor environmental conditions for both lights-on and lights-off cycles is the most optimal way for plant maximizing yield and quality production to be able to cater to a connoisseur niche market that demands a quality over quantity.

What limits the potential for maximum growth in cannabis plants? The limits are based on the types of stressors that the cannabis plants experience during the growth cycle. The amount of stress correlates directly to how the environment is controlled and maintained in the grow rooms, which can be tremendously improved with the proper tools and measures. Cannabis plants are sensitive organisms. They are temperamental and moody, and they don’t like the slightest changes in their environment. The goal is to keep your plants always happy to maximize yields and quality. Even though it has been proven that quality is in direct relationship to creating the right stressors towards the end of the crop cycle that requires necessary adjustments to vpd and being able to control that process is essential for the indoor grower. Cannabis plants do not like variations in temperature during light cycles. It’s okay to change the temperature during those periods, as long as the temperature is constant and does not fluctuate. The idea is to create an environment that is as stress-free as possible. An environment with too many negative stresses can result in low yields and in extreme cases crop failure. Positive stresses are the necessary ingredient that can be introduced to cannabis plants that ultimately make them stronger and produce larger, more potent buds. Negative stresses can inhibit the plants’ ability to absorb light for photosynthesis, restrict leaf transpiration rates and make plants more susceptible to mold, mildew and viroid attacks. New studies viroid infections are showing that they can even be mutated from the extreme consistent stressors making them susceptible to transforming into stunted dudded plants that produce poor quality low yields. That's why keeping the environment as stress free as possible is so important to the success of cannabis plants.

The HVAC equipment’s size and level of control will determine the level of stress that is created in the growing environment. One major factor many growers might not be aware of is that their HVAC system is controlling to a set-point rather than maintaining a set-point. Some cultivation facilities have reported yields as high as four plus up to even 5 pounds per light using these control methods. Proper air flow circulation and movement in your grow room is the key to balancing the different micro-climates that exist within your grow space. Having a thermometer in a certain section of the room is not a good enough measure for how many different micro-climates may exist throughout the grow space. Being able to create a balanced micro-climate inside your grow room will insure that the vpd you aim for will be consistent throughout all parts of the room. Elevated air movement enhances stomatal sensitivity to abscisic acid in leaves developed at high relative air humidity and aids to maximize photosynthesis. The best way to create this type of airflow in your grow room is by applying a vorticular air flow. A tornado like dynamic inside your grow space.

A study on soy bean plants, showed that the existence of vorticular flow within in a soybean crop and in a laboratory wind tunnel model showed that the influence of vorticular flow on momentum transfer is determined by the turbulent intensity of the boundary layer. Stability of the observed vortices was related to the structural characteristics of the turbulent boundary layer. The Navier-Stokes equations were solved iteratively for two-dimensional, incompressible flow in a rectangular cavity where the fluid motion of the stable vortices was driven by the action of a boundary layer moving above and within the crop canopy. Instant above and within the crop canopy compared favorably with wind tunnel and field observations. Hence what determined temperature and humidity (VPD|) indicates if the atmospheric stability is either stable or unstable. Making sure that the right vpd is applied for the proper week of the plant’s cycle will ensure atmospheric stability inside your grow space allowing plants to maximize photosynthesis given that the rest of the factors that are needed to dial in your grow room are in place. So how do we aim to create vorticular air flow and be able to manage temperature and humidity properly to aim for atmospheric stability? Using CRAC ac's

A computer room air conditioning (CRAC) unit is a device that monitors and maintains the temperature, air distribution and humidity in a network room or data center. CRAC units allows multiple units to operate and be controlled in tandem, and individual units can be set up for either temperature-primary or dehumidification-primary for operation. This synchronized control strategy allows temperature and humidity set-points to be maintained without fluctuation. This is something typical commercial comfort cooling HVAC equipment is not capable of doing. In other words, crac ac’s can manage vpd and can also be setup to create vorticular air flow inside a grow space, the only drawback is that right now they are very expensive. So how can we take our current HVAC systems that we have and most can afford and make it so that it operates as close as possible to a crac ac?

The idea is to turn your standard 2 split AC system in your room and add a heating component so you can control both high and low temps of the room more accurately to minimize temperature fluctuations inside your grow room. And hooking it up to a wifi monitoring system like NEST to control and adjust and make changes remotely. This solves the temperature control part but what about humidity? To control humidity we growers use dehumidifiers and humidifiers. What you can do is link them both to a humidity controller where you can set where you want your highs and lows to be at for different times in your grow room daily cycles and also adjust them for your weekly cycles. Now that we have both temps and humidity controlled and stable to minimize fluctuations for the atmospheric stability. How can we create the right vorticular airflow layer moving above the canopy surface and within. Introducing, the multi-fan Vflow. Vflow Ventilation offers the grower the opportunity to reduce the negative impacts, due to humidity, in a simple and energy efficient way. The air is distributed over a wide surface through an aerodynamic conductor. Having these elements inside your sealed grow space mimics the dynamics of crac ac’s.

 

[Judaz]

The potential results when the environmental conditions are optimal for controlling vpd with the right type of vorticulat air flow in a proper built Co2 enriched sealed room with all the other factors dialed in.

Consistent rounds of 3-3.5 pounds per light of OG Kush on a consistent basis. Our best run so far was 33 pounds of quality OG kush over 9 DE lights fixture 3.66 a light. And others using the same hvac techniques with higher yielding strains are getting over 4 a light without having to buy super expensive crac ac’s

 

[Smoking Gun]

@Judaz, how often a day do you run the carbon filter and for how long?

 

[Judaz]

@Judaz, how often a day do you run the carbon filter and for how long?

The carbon filter that’s in the room turns on when lights go off and exhausts air out of the room to control humidity better and remove any excess co2 that tends to accumulate when lights are off. It’s hooked up to a passive intake that has a hepa filter.

Also since there is a burner in the room, doing that will ensure you don’t have any by product build up in the room from the burning of the gas. I know some may argue that there is no need to exhaust your room if it’s sealed but my experience has shown other wise. Best practices are to run it at night and every 3-6 hours burp the room for a few minutes when lights are on. You can probably get away without exhausting if you were using co2 from tanks. But you would need to be scrubbing and cleaning the air inside all the time. And boost up you dehumidifiers inside room because there will be lots of humidity build up inside the room.

One of the good signals that I have noticed when your sealed room is thriving is that plants tend to control transpiration really well and the ideal vpd they prefer for the given week of the cycle Seems to stay there pretty well just on their own. Not sure exactly why this is happening. Got a few hypothesis but the humidifier rarely turns on. If there are problems, I notice humidifier running much more. The amount of water that’s removed by the ac and dehumidifiers when lights are on is very close to the amount of water they use from the recirculated feed. Hence a nice balance tends to form in the room from this feedback system. When they are not happy and seem to start showing symptoms of being over fed the balance starts to get disturbed and I can tell because they return less water back. Just something I’ve noticed. I barely have to use any new water when the water feedback system is balanced and they are happy. Water bill is super low.

 

[Aqua Man]

The carbon filter that’s in the room turns on when lights go off and exhausts air out of the room to control humidity better and remove any excess co2 that tends to accumulate when lights are off. It’s hooked up to a passive intake that has a hepa filter.

Also since there is a burner in the room, doing that will ensure you don’t have any by product build up in the room from the burning of the gas. I know some may argue that there is no need to exhaust your room if it’s sealed but my experience has shown other wise. Best practices are to run it at night and every 3-6 hours burp the room for a few minutes when lights are on. You can probably get away without exhausting if you were using co2 from tanks. But you would need to be scrubbing and cleaning the air inside all the time. And boost up you dehumidifiers inside room because there will be lots of humidity build up inside the room.

One of the good signals that I have noticed when your sealed room is thriving is that plants tend to control transpiration really well and the ideal vpd they prefer for the given week of the cycle Seems to stay there pretty well just on their own. Not sure exactly why this is happening. Got a few hypothesis but the humidifier rarely turns on. If there are problems, I notice humidifier running much more. The amount of water that’s remove by the ac and dehumidifiers when lights are on is very close to the amount of water they use from the recirculated feed. Hence a nice balance tends to form in the room from this feedback system. When they are not happy and seem to start showing symptoms of being over fed the balance starts to get disturbed and I can tell because they return less water back. Just something I’ve noticed. I barely have to use any new water when the water feedback system is balanced and they are happy. Water bill is super low.

Because as the humidity increases the transpiration rate decreases. In a larger room with lots of plants this can have a bigger impact. I. Something like my little grow room I use a temp controller to slowly lower temps so my dehumidifier easily keeps up. If you get a fast temp drop it's hard on the dehuey

 

[Aqua Man]

I also would vent at night with burners. In my room with tank supply there is no need and I save on CO2 by not doing so. Ppm reach over 2000 at night. Plants have no issue with over 5000 and probably a lot higher so venting is not needed and they eat that all up as soon as the lights come on. With burners I believe some ethylene is produced and that's a hormone to the plants that regulates ripening

 

[Cushdy]

Yes very expensive unless you figure out a way to make a regular ac work similar to a crac ac which is what we have done and saved thousands of dollars by using a combo of the V-flow, standard 2-split ac system with an added heating unit controlled with nest wireless system and a vpd controller built into the lighting system for less than 1/2 the cost of a crac ac. The small investment is pennies on the dollar to the extra consistent weight gains you get.

A computer room air conditioning (CRAC) unit is a device that monitors and maintains the temperature, air distribution and humidity in a network room or data center. CRAC units are replacing air-conditioning units that were used in the past to cool data centers.

Is it possible to run compressed co2 @ the same time as a dehumidifier? Or would it have to cycled in via a timer?

 

[Aqua Man]

Is it possible to run compressed co2 @ the same time as a dehumidifier? Or would it have to cycled in via a timer?

No issues running a dehumidifier with CO2. Infact you will need to in a sealed room

 

[cemchris]

That’s awesome, like the way your thinking in your design of a room. I had to log back in to give you a like. For big rooms we use this device indoors now works best with a minimum of 10ft ceilings. Top Dep farms can’t operate efficiently without these: very powerful tool and only $500 bucks. A
Must for a sealed room.

It's funny i was going to comment on that. I wasnt even aware of these units till about a year ago. Greenhouse things I was always absent on. Behind the curve but def still learning from these guys. Walked into a grow like WTF and why haven't Ive seen these before.

 

[Dryxi]

How can we create the right vorticular airflow layer moving above the canopy surface and within. Introducing, the multi-fan Vflow

That does look like a good fan for moving air. Is it more than it looks like tho, it is kind of expensive for a smaller sealed room.

It looks like a similiar effect could be diy'd?

 

[NedReynolds]

D I Y ... ok - then how so ?

 

[jaguarlax]

The answer is the right kind of airflow circulation and not just your standard wall mount fans but a special kind of airflow that works to balance & stabilize the different micro environments of temp and humidity that are created within different volumetric spaces inside sealed rooms. This is so important to make sure that temps and humidity readings are balanced throughout. I’ll give the long answer later.

Makes sense. I tried to apply this principle to my setup as much as possible. In all my years of cultivating corals, the one thing that made the most impact (besides basic environmental conditions) was water movement. Its the same concept. The air is the "water" in this case.

 

[NedReynolds]

Exceelent - well i am glad i have been thinking like that with vapor for a while now

 

[Indiva710]

The goal of an indoor commercial grower is to maximize weight and quality to be able to create a profitable business that caters to the right niche cannabis market. A connoisseur market comparable to the fine wine market space. The need for indoor cultivators of cannabis to keep evolving their knowledge for better methods and practices of cultivating with the aim to control all aspects of environment, is the only way for them to stay afloat and compete against the light dep farms that are proving as the most efficient way to cultivate cannabis for maximum yield at lowest costs but at a cost of not being able to produce a product at par with indoor quality. Indoor growers, the cannabis connoisseurs have realized the importance to create precise indoor environmental conditions for both lights-on and lights-off cycles is the most optimal way for plant maximizing yield and quality production to be able to cater to a connoisseur niche market that demands a quality over quantity.

What limits the potential for maximum growth in cannabis plants? The limits are based on the types of stressors that the cannabis plants experience during the growth cycle. The amount of stress correlates directly to how the environment is controlled and maintained in the grow rooms, which can be tremendously improved with the proper tools and measures. Cannabis plants are sensitive organisms. They are temperamental and moody, and they don’t like the slightest changes in their environment. The goal is to keep your plants always happy to maximize yields and quality. Even though it has been proven that quality is in direct relationship to creating the right stressors towards the end of the crop cycle that requires necessary adjustments to vpd and being able to control that process is essential for the indoor grower. Cannabis plants do not like variations in temperature during light cycles. It’s okay to change the temperature during those periods, as long as the temperature is constant and does not fluctuate. The idea is to create an environment that is as stress-free as possible. An environment with too many negative stresses can result in low yields and in extreme cases crop failure. Positive stresses are the necessary ingredient that can be introduced to cannabis plants that ultimately make them stronger and produce larger, more potent buds. Negative stresses can inhibit the plants’ ability to absorb light for photosynthesis, restrict leaf transpiration rates and make plants more susceptible to mold, mildew and viroid attacks. New studies viroid infections are showing that they can even be mutated from the extreme consistent stressors making them susceptible to transforming into stunted dudded plants that produce poor quality low yields. That's why keeping the environment as stress free as possible is so important to the success of cannabis plants.

The HVAC equipment’s size and level of control will determine the level of stress that is created in the growing environment. One major factor many growers might not be aware of is that their HVAC system is controlling to a set-point rather than maintaining a set-point. Some cultivation facilities have reported yields as high as four plus up to even 5 pounds per light using these control methods. Proper air flow circulation and movement in your grow room is the key to balancing the different micro-climates that exist within your grow space. Having a thermometer in a certain section of the room is not a good enough measure for how many different micro-climates may exist throughout the grow space. Being able to create a balanced micro-climate inside your grow room will insure that the vpd you aim for will be consistent throughout all parts of the room. Elevated air movement enhances stomatal sensitivity to abscisic acid in leaves developed at high relative air humidity and aids to maximize photosynthesis. The best way to create this type of airflow in your grow room is by applying a vorticular air flow. A tornado like dynamic inside your grow space.

A study on soy bean plants, showed that the existence of vorticular flow within in a soybean crop and in a laboratory wind tunnel model showed that the influence of vorticular flow on momentum transfer is determined by the turbulent intensity of the boundary layer. Stability of the observed vortices was related to the structural characteristics of the turbulent boundary layer. The Navier-Stokes equations were solved iteratively for two-dimensional, incompressible flow in a rectangular cavity where the fluid motion of the stable vortices was driven by the action of a boundary layer moving above and within the crop canopy. Instant above and within the crop canopy compared favorably with wind tunnel and field observations. Hence what determined temperature and humidity (VPD|) indicates if the atmospheric stability is either stable or unstable. Making sure that the right vpd is applied for the proper week of the plant’s cycle will ensure atmospheric stability inside your grow space allowing plants to maximize photosynthesis given that the rest of the factors that are needed to dial in your grow room are in place. So how do we aim to create vorticular air flow and be able to manage temperature and humidity properly to aim for atmospheric stability? Using CRAC ac's

View attachment 910347

A computer room air conditioning (CRAC) unit is a device that monitors and maintains the temperature, air distribution and humidity in a network room or data center. CRAC units allows multiple units to operate and be controlled in tandem, and individual units can be set up for either temperature-primary or dehumidification-primary for operation. This synchronized control strategy allows temperature and humidity set-points to be maintained without fluctuation. This is something typical commercial comfort cooling HVAC equipment is not capable of doing. In other words, crac ac’s can manage vpd and can also be setup to create vorticular air flow inside a grow space, the only drawback is that right now they are very expensive. So how can we take our current HVAC systems that we have and most can afford and make it so that it operates as close as possible to a crac ac?

The idea is to turn your standard 2 split AC system in your room and add a heating component so you can control both high and low temps of the room more accurately to minimize temperature fluctuations inside your grow room. And hooking it up to a wifi monitoring system like NEST to control and adjust and make changes remotely. This solves the temperature control part but what about humidity? To control humidity we growers use dehumidifiers and humidifiers. What you can do is link them both to a humidity controller where you can set where you want your highs and lows to be at for different times in your grow room daily cycles and also adjust them for your weekly cycles. Now that we have both temps and humidity controlled and stable to minimize fluctuations for the atmospheric stability. How can we create the right vorticular airflow layer moving above the canopy surface and within. Introducing, the multi-fan Vflow. Vflow Ventilation offers the grower the opportunity to reduce the negative impacts, due to humidity, in a simple and energy efficient way. The air is distributed over a wide surface through an aerodynamic conductor. Having these elements inside your sealed grow space mimics the dynamics of crac ac’s.

Why can't vostermans make a fan for us home growers as I would absolutely love to have one of those fans for my 8x4 but nooooooo they won't make them for us lil guys we don't mean nothing to them unfortunately it's a real bummer as I'm sure I'm not the only one that would love to have a fan like that for our tent setups that would be dopetastic grrrrrr....Maybe I'll have to try and make my own then.....

 

[Aqua Man]

Why can't vostermans make a fan for us home growers as I would absolutely love to have one of those fans for my 8x4 but nooooooo they won't make them for us lil guys we don't mean nothing to them unfortunately it's a real bummer as I'm sure I'm not the only one that would love to have a fan like that for our tent setups that would be dopetastic grrrrrr....Maybe I'll have to try and make my own then.....

Ceiling fans set directionally for updraft in a small room should be similar

 

[Indiva710]

Ceiling fans set directionally for updraft in a small room should be similar

Correct however can't put one in my 8x4... So I may just build one later at some point when I'm done with my new build and all and when I got some time ill pry look into it more thats for sure as it sure would be hella dope that's for sure..Just wish they or someone would actually make one for tents as I would for sure buy them but vost won't do it I already asked them and they said no so gta do it myself like anything u want in life and can't get u just do it urself or get over it lol

 

[MIMedGrower]

Clip fans pointed up slightly on opposite poles in the tent set in opposite directions will create an updraft vortex.

 

[Indiva710]

Clip fans pointed up slightly on opposite poles in the tent set in opposite directions will create an updraft vortex.

Ya I actually do that now already but thanks anyways .. Curious on how doing it that way vs a real one tho but gta do what u gta do and all

 

[youngOG]

let me had my 2 cents because i think about this sealed room thing for some years

i will not talk about bottled co2

i will try to explain why judaz and others get better result by addig fresh air regularly
and why their plants can show problems with the burner on if the room is totally sealed

i'm no chemist but i think its easy to understand

co2 generators can burn propane or methane (natural gas) to obtain water vapor, co2 and heat

here is the balanced reaction for natural gas(CH4) complete combustion

CH4 + 2 O2 ----> 2 H2O+CO2

which means one molecule of methane need 2 molecules of dioxygene to generate 2 molecules of water and one of CO2

then the plants will use the co2 for the photosynthesis

we see that the plants will use 6 co2 to give 6 dioxygen
they dont give more oxygen than co2 ..

fresh air contain around 21 % o2, if the only o2 source in your room are your plants then its easy to see that a o2 deficit will be created by the burner

the burner will start to burn yellow and emite poisonous gas (carbon monoxyde..)
plants get sick

how to counter act this ?

-introduce fresh air constantly, just enough to keep the o2 level monitored over 20 % in the room
best way is to do a closed loop with a lung room. Inside the lung room the cooling system, dehumidifiers, co2 burners with a fresh air source near to allow a clean combustion
everything sucked and distributed to the main room before being sucked again to be retreated
or by using the crac systems, or some kind of rooftop unit that allow a percentage of air to be renewed during the cooling(rooftops usually do this).
or

-by adding hydrogen peroxyde (h2o2) frequently to the roots with a res outside the room, and a pump with PC drippers to water everything evenly
choose a fast draining medium that allow to multishot everyday

(thats my favorite because it allow you to run 100 % sealed)

keeping a level around 50 to 100ppm max of h2o2 in the main reservoir seems to correct the problem of lack of o2

its few, around 2.5mL per 10 liters of solution
it keeps the res clean as source water and oxygenate the room every shot

every run off of the room (AC/dehumidifer condensation water, rockwool runoff)come back in the second reservoir

there h2o2 level is monitored with h2o2 strips (0-100ppm)

1 part soft water nutrient is added until the right ec is achieved
ph is set ( sometimes not necessary) and everything is sent back in the main reservoir
no waste, and each watering get a large runoff that cancel any risk of salt buildup (used to be a problem for me in run to waste setups )

it can be a good idea for a sealed room grower to invest in a o2 meter

for growers using liquid propane burner, its a good idea to use a filter before the regulator to filter some contaminants inside the gas ( oils...)

if a chemist is around i would be happy to ask him a few questions

peace guys