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Fert Formulas

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Fert Formulas

Jalisco Kid 60 Replies 23,858 Views
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J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
#1
I have been getting questions on nutes and which one is best etc. Being butt lazy and been there done that I would like to suggest you guys start a list of fert comp formulas. Maybe we can make a sticky of it, Shame I did not copy our last list. On each of your formulas is a net weight. This basically tells you how much nutes were added to water. You can then take the guaranteed analysis put it into a nute cal with it's weight and you will see how much N-P-K-Mg-S is in our formulas.
This might burst your bubble on what is really in your nutes and you can look at your costs. I will then post my ppm's and cost of the salts in my formula. Then you will see the cost of your water and packaging. Suerte JK
 
#2
great idea my friend, just beginning my flower cycle and have been keeping a journal, will post everything once flower sets in, i hope a lot of senior farmers take part in this so we all have a general tool to verfiy whats most effiicient and highest quality
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
#3
Here is a small list Lucas had in one of his post. You can see he uses different amounts of nutes. Here for this list you should use 1 measurement for all the nute formulas. I would suggest a tablespoon. That way all formulas can honestly be compared. JK


Now for some heavy math based discussion of some popular nutrients

the following specs are in N-P-K-Mg format
canna aqua a plus b vega 6-3-8-1
Canna aqua a plus b flores 4-4-11-1.2
Canna Coco a plus b flores 5-5-3-1
Flora Nova Bloom 4-8-7-2
Flora Nova Grow 7-4-10-1.5
Flora Micro 5-0-1
Flora Bloom 0-5-4-1.5

from the above data, using pH's spreadsheet,
with weights checked, the following dosages produced the net elemental values for the following GH, Canna, and PBP formulas.. I strongly encourage folks to input the net weight of their nutrient bottles when using pH's premix spreadsheet. Thick products like FloraNova, especially benefit from this data, because it raises the net NPKMG calculations significantly.

note the Canna Coco Bloom recipe profile, it is about a 33% dilution of the 8ml GH Micro, plus 16 ml per gallon of GH Bloom formula.. (but with more Nitrogen).. Maybe medium based nutes are intentionally weak, so they accumulate in the pot?

8ml GH Micro 16 ml GH Bloom, is my guru pH's baseline bloom formula (pH is a person) derived from the Mel Frank targets, which suggest a 100-100-200-60 goal for NPKMG values in bloom Both GH Flora series nutes and the Flora Nova series, achieve Mel Franks targets without additives. Here is a link to Mel's specs
pH's "Lucas Formula" values for 8ml micro, 16ml bloom
n 130
p 106
k 183
Mg 73

8 Flora Nova grow. Flora Nova is the one bottle solution to nutrients, note this mix is almost identical to Canna Aqua Vega, and GrowGreen's Nute Recipe
n 217
p 54
k 257
Mg 46

8 fnBloom
n 124
p 108
k 180
Mg 62

GH's baseline Flora Series, the 3 bottles, green purple and red, (different from Flora Nova series) veg formula
GH 15grow, 10micro, 5bloom
211
46
263
40

and GH 3 part bloom formula
GH 5grow, 10micro, 15bloom
159
92
219
66


canna coco 5.7a plus 5.7b (this is their baseline 3ml per liter formula), the highest dosage they recommend is 14ml/gal of canna coco A plus 14 of B). This mix (5.7ml/gal) is less than 1/3 strength of GH Flora Nova Bloom @8ml per gallon on the P, K and Mg..
N 87
P 30
K 43
Mg 17


canna coco 8/a and 8/b
121
42
60
24

Here is canna coco's strongest bloom mix, before the pk14 boost. it resembles the GH FloraNovaGrow recipe in its Nitrogen level
canna coco 14/a and 14/b
212
74
106
42

Here we see Canna Coco hitting hard with P and K
canna coco 14/a and 14/b plus 6ml pk13-14

212
177
317
42

pk 13-14 alone
0
103
212

here is Canna Aqua Vega at mfg rec of 3ml per litre each of A and B (very similar to GH's veg mix)
208
45
230
35

and here is Canna Aqua Flores at 3ml/litre each of A and B (it does not resemble GH bloom recipes, but is slightly similar to 15ml PBPBloom plus 5ml Cal Mag)
138
60
316
42

Here is PureBlendPro Bloom @ 15ml/gal
129
45
214
26

and PBPBloom 15, plus 5 cal mag (GrowGreen's formula) it resembles the grow formula of FloraNova @8ml, as well as GH's 15Grow, 10Micro, 5 bloom formulations, the most copied recipe Ive found. It seems competition only copied GH's veg formula for the most part..
Note also that GrowGreen has contributed a total nutes per crop spec, of 15ml per 40 gallons, or 20 ounces of PBPBloom per 1k crop.. a very interesting spec, resulting in about 5000 total ppm of N per croplife..
161
45
214
45

I dont know why Canna and PBP use such lower P and Mg levels than GH, nor do Canna and PBP hit Mel Franks 100-100-200-60 targets the way GH does. Yet folks with Canna and PBP produce excellent results, just like folks with GH do.

There does seem to be a difference in the design of Canna Aqua compared to Canna Coco, and PBP is similar to Canna Coco.. which leads me to think that DWC nute levels can be much higher than medium based nutes that expect accumulation to occur in the medium..

Bear in mind that when looking at Canna Aqua Flores, the K level is rather high, and this inhibits uptake of Mg, which is already a bit low imho.. I have heard repeatedly that Canna Aqua, AND Canna Coco produce Mg deficiency if not supplemented with Epsom at the rate of 1/4tsp per gallon...

I used to recommend PBP be supplemented with Epsom also, but Cal Mag is a better option, as it also adds N

I hope this thread helps to develop an archive of effective nutrient mixes. I can add analysis of other products and combinations if people want to know their profiles and are not spreadsheet savvy.

To do that, I need guaranteed analysis info from the label of the products being used, as well as the net weight of the bottled products.

for those not familiar with the origin of the "Lucas Formula", it was developed by pH in his Ebb/Flow system. I adopted his recipe for DWC, after learning about bubblers from Highgrade. I assumed that DWC and Ebb Flow could be fed at the same nutrient strength and ratios. It worked. I dont know why Canna and Botanicare (makers of Pure Blend) use such lower P and Mg levels.. Even if they are designed for medium, does not Ebb Flow have similar nute accumulations as medium based grows? Maybe not. Even though Ebb Flow does concentrate nutes in the rox between irrigations, they may be flushed out each time the flood comes, unlike the case with Canna Coco, or PBP in soilless mixes like Sunshine..
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
#6
So I was hoping to get everyone to list there ferts,guaranteed analysis,weight so we could all compare what we use and to see it is mostly the same. But I guess no one wanted to play. Suerte JK
 
#8
i wanna play dont have the info in front of me and im runnin to borders everyday to hitch a free internet ride.....i have the list from hellll..... come on you guys this will save all of you money if you are not incredibly lazy........thanks jk....
 
#9
Here is the formula I use...had it posted on another site...

So OK - feeding schedule week by week. This is the GH weekly feeding program, slightly tweaked. I will only call out the volume of each part per gallon of water in the following manner: grow, micro, bloom, ppm range. Example - 5-2.5-2.5-400/800 would mean 5 ml grow, 2.5 ml micro, 2.5 ml bloom and a ppm of 400-880. Remember it's per gallon. You Euro's can easily convert to liters. 4 liters is just a little bit over 1 gallon. It should also be noted that I use the hardwater micro due to my tapwater. I suggest using the hardwater micro in place of the regular micro if your tap water is over 200 ppm total or you have over 70 ppm Ca. RO water users should use the regular micro.
Veg -
week 1 5-2.5-2.5-400/600
week 2 10-5-3- 600/800
week 3 12-6-3 800/1000 (continue week 3 formula if additional veg time is required.)

Bloom
week 1 6-6-10- 800/1200
week 2 3-7-12 - 1000/1400
week 3 3-8-14 - 1000/1400
week 4 3-8-16 - 1000/1400
week 5 (discussed in detail below*)
week 6 0-7-20 - 1000/1400
week 7 0-6-20 (see bleow**)
* During week 5 if not using a booster like Superbud, Bushmaster Kabloom etc. run 2.5-7-18. I use MOAB (Mother of All Blooms) or BushMaster at 50% of recommended strength, and use 1.25-3.5-9 for the fert base.
**If running an 8 week strain you should only run the ferts during week 7 for a maximum of 3-4 days. This gives you 10 days for flushing.

The ppms work out almost exactly. I tend to lean toward the lower side of the range, unless I have a really heavy feeder that I know can handle it.

At every ressy change out I add in 5 drops per gallon of 35% food grade H2O2. During flush use ph adjusted water at 5.5-6.0
I will add epsom salt at week 1 of bloom if the plants are heavy feeders AND I see signs of an Mg def. Otherwise I won't use it. The only time I have ever had Mg def is during transition. The GH 3 part is a little low on Mg, but the PBP and Canna nutes are way lower.

Now- how to control your PH...
There are a couple factors that cause your PH to drift. The most common is running the nute solution too strong or too weak. If it's too strong, your PH drops. If it's too weak the PH rises. You have to find the balance point. If you find that the formula above is say, a little strong, and say you have a 20 gallon ressy, mix the nutes for 18 gallons. If it's a little weak, mix it for 22 gallons. You follow?
The other common mistake is mixing your nutrient solution and trying to adjust the PH right away. You have to allow time for the ph buffers in the nutrient solution to do their job. Mix the nutes up, and bubble or circulate for 12 hours before even looking at your PH. You will find the PH to be almost right on target.
I use little or no ph adjusters. (Except during flush). I use tap water, with a starting PPM of 300-400 and a starting PH of 7.4-9.0 (Thats crazy you say! The water is too hard, you will never get stable PH and you will have too much Ca, causing a lockout of Mg!) Bollocks I say.
Every week, on Friday I drain the ressy and fill with plain water. I let that run overnight giving the plants a little flush. This also allows the chlorine and ammonia to evap. On Saturday morning, I mix the nutes into the ressy. I DO NOT adjust ph at this time. Let that run as is overnight. On Sunday morning, I check ph and adjust if needed. Usually don't have to.
Doing things this way has saved me from constant PH drifts, and using about 150 ml of ph down every ressy change, and a little here and there throughout the week to keep it in the desired range. Now, the most I ever have to use is about 30 ml.if any at all. (I have a 35 gallon ressy btw) My Ph stays at a constant 5.5-5.8.
Click to expand...



Cheers
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
#10
Ok I will make it easier if you take the time to put the
Name of Manufacturer
Name of fertilizer
Guaranteed Analysis
Weight
I will post how it breaks down in PPM.
We then can make a sticky to compare the different formulas. JK
 
#12
i got a jug of grow big layin around, what numbers did you need?
 
#13
He will need the complete guaranteed analysis, plus weight and volume as published on the bottle.
 
#16
I'll Give ya the Whole Shabang off the label

Fox Farm Grow Big Soil - 32 fl oz - 2 lbs
---------------------------------
Guaranteed Analysis:

Total Nitrogen (N)...........................6.0%
2.9%...Ammoniacal Nitrogen
3.1%.........Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)...............4.0%
Soluble Potash (K2O)........................4.0%
Magnesium (Mg)..............................0.60%
0.60% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
Boron (B).......................................0.02%
Copper (Cu)...................................0.05%
0.05% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe).......................................0.10%
0.10% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn).............................0.05%
0.05% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Zinc (Zn).......................................0.05%
0.05% Chelated Zinc (Zn)

Derived From: Ammonium Nitrate, Ammonium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Nitrate, Earthworm Castings, Magnesium Nitrate, Norwegian Kelp, Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate, Iron EDTA, Manganese EDTA, Zinc EDTA, Chelating Agent, Disodium Ethylenediamine Tetra Acetate (EDTA), and Sodium Borate



Botanicare Liquid Karma - 1 Gallon - 8.45 lbs
---------------------------------------------------
Guaranteed Analysis:

Total Nitrogen (N)............................0.1%
0.1% Water Soluble Organic Nitrogen (N)
Available Phosphate (P2O5)...............0.1%
Soluble Potash (K20)........................0.1%

Also Contains Non-Plant Food Ingredients:

Humic Acid.....................................0.01%
Derived from Leonardite
Aloe Vera Extract............................0.01%
Yucca Extract.................................0.01%

Derived From: Kelp Seaweed Extract


MaxiCrop Liquid Fish - 1 Gallon - 8.5 lbs
-------------------------------------------
Guaranteed Analysis:

Total Nitrogen (N).............................5.0%
0.50% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
0.75% Water Insoluble Nitrogen
3.75 Other Water Soluble Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5).................1.0%
Available Potash (K20)........................1.0%

Derived From: Fish

Hows That? Flower I use Flora Nova and the specs have already been stated.
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
#17
Ok we will lose some value on the fish and worms I believe. I never bothered with organic mixtures maybe I'll learn something here. I will see if I can find any value for them. JK
 
#18
I use sensi 2 part bloom with big bud, bud candy and overdrive.

Sensi A- 1.1qt / 1L 1.4lbs

Guaranteed Analysis:
Total Nitrogen (N)................4.30%
0.10.........Ammoniacal Nitrogen
2.10%......Nitrate Nirtogen
2.10%......Other water soluble Nitrogen
Soluble Potash (K2O)............3.10%
Calcium (Ca).......................1.70%
Malybdenum (Mo)................0.0008%

Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, Sodium Malybdate.

Sensi B- 1.1 qt / 1 L 1.4Lbs

Guaranteed Analysis:
Total Nitrogen (N).................1.50%
0.02%........Ammoniacal Nitrogen
0.50%........Nitrate Nitrogen
0.98%........Other water soluble nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5).....6.10%
Soluble Potash (K2O)..............5.70%
Magnesium (Mg).....................1.00%

Derived From: Monopotassium phosphate, Magnesium Phosphate, Monoammonium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulphate, Magnesium Nitrate, Potassium Nirtate, Dipotassium Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Sulphate.

Bud Candy- 1L / 1.1 qt 2.4Lbs

Guaranteed Analysis:
Soluble Potash (K2O).....................1.00%

Derived from: Potassium Sulphate

Also Contains Non-plant food ingredients:
72 trace elements, organic acids, citric acid, asorbic acid, polyphenolic compounds, esters, raw cane sugar, sweet brown molasses

Carbohydrates:
xylose, maltose, glucose, galactose, aribinose

Extracts:
cranberry extract, grape extract, malt extract, fermented yeast extract

Vitamins:
B-1, B-2, B-3, B-4, B-5, B-6, B-7, B-12

L-Alanine, L-Arganine, L-Asparagine, L-Aspartic Acid, L-Cysteine, L-Cystine, L-Glutamic Acid, L-Glutamine, L-Glycerine, L-Histidine, L-Isoleucine, L-Leucine, L-Lysine, L-Methionine, L-Threonine, L-Phenylalanine, L-Proline, L-Serine, L-Tryosine, L-Tryptophan, L-Valine

Big Bud - 1L / 1.1qt 2.4Lbs

Guaranteed Analysis:
Anailable Phosphate (P2O5)................... 2.0%
Soluble Potash (K2O)............................ 4.0%
Magnesium......................................... 0.7%
0.7% ...............Soluble Magnesium

Derived From:
Magnesium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulphate, Potassium Phosphate, Citric Acid

Also Contains Non-Plant Food Ingredients:
0.3%....L-Alanine 0.2%....L-Lysine
0.8%....L- arginine 0.2%....L-Methionine
1.2%....L-Aspartic Acid 0.6%....L-Phenylalanine
0.6%....L-Cystenine 0.7%....L-Proline
0.4%....L-Glutamic Acid 0.4%....L-Serine
0.7%....L-Glycine 0.3%....L-Threonine
0.4%....L-Histidine 0.7%....L-Tryptophan
1.1%....L-Isoleucine 1.3%....L-Tyrosine
0.9%....L-Leucine 1.1%....L-Valine

OverDrive- 1L / 1.1 qt 2.4 lbs

Guaranteed Analysis:
Total Nitrogen (N) ....................... 1.0%
1.00%........Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)........... 5.0%
Soluble Potash (K2O).................... 4.0%
Magnesium (Mg)..........................0.92%

Derived From:
Magnesium Phosphate, Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulfate

Also Contains Non-Plant Food Ingredient:
0.5%..............Asorbic Acid
 
#19
Supernatural Brand- Grow Aqua 100g

total nitrogen.....17%
1%Ammoniacal Nitrogen
16% Nitrate Nitrogen

Availible phosphate....7%

Soluble Potash.....18%

Calcium.....8%

Magnesium.....2%
2%Water Soluble Magnesium

Sulphur.....3.6%
3.6%combined sulphur

Boron.....0.016%

Copper.....0.006%
0.006%Chelated Copper

Iron.....0.058%
0.056%Chelated Iron

Manganese.....0.053%
0.053%Chelated Manganese

Molybdenum.....0.003%

Zinc.....0.013%
0.013%Chelated Zinc

Derived from: Cacium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Sulphate, Mono-Poatssium Phosphate, Di-Ammonium Phosphate,
Magnesium Sulphate, Borax, Copper(CuEDTA), Iron(FeEDTA),Manganese(MnEDTA), Ammoniun Molybdate, Zinc(ZnEDTA

Also Contains 0.01% Thiamine Hydrochloride



General Organics Bio Root 32fl Oz.2.11lbs

Total Nitrogen.....1.0%
0.5%Nitrate Nitrogen
0.5%Water Soluble Nitrogen

Available Phosphate.....1.0%

Soluble Potash.....1.0%

Derived from: Alfalfa meal. brewers yeast, potassium sulfate, rock sulphate, sea kelp, soybean meal
 
#20
Jalisco Kid said:
Ok we will lose some value on the fish and worms I believe. I never bothered with organic mixtures maybe I'll learn something here. I will see if I can find any value for them. JK
Click to expand...


Thx Man :rasta:
 
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