Dirtbags Do-over... 🤪 Back to Organic!

[Milson]

I guess what I find confusing and interesting is how, although you can come close by supplementing organics and biologicals into inert systems like hydro, its still not quite the same as the level of terpene production you get from pure living soils, or aquaponics that are fully dependent on the microbial life to survive.

It really messes with my head trying to understand this stuff.

Some good friends of mine are growing organically now after decades of running ammended soiless systems and the flavour and burn quality of their cannabis has shot through the roof. Im 100% convinced that there is a connection between microbial dependence and terpene expression. Because simple microbial supplementation into chelated feeding routines just does not seem to produce the same results.

I am thinking about it like this.

Why does the plant make terps when it just wants to make seeds?

Probably to interact with its environment somehow. Idk how. But the environment triggers it somehow.

What would be present in the environment to trigger an expression that results in more or less terps production?

Idk, other living things that interact with the chemicals via smell or whatever?

And that's as far as I can get. But my hunch is that the expression gets affected by what the plant wants from interactions with other life forms. This would also fit into an idea about far red light, which also affects shade response, affecting terps. Where there is shade, there is likely other life.

Idk if any of that makes the least damn sense or is helpful at all.

 

[MIMedGrower]

There’s so many moving parts to your anecdote though mimed.
So many variables could have lead to the better flavour of your last harvest.

I’m going by a couple studies that showed KNF (not just organic) having more terps and trichs over all.

(I’m desperately looking for this study I read that in.)

I agree with @Dirtbag that there is a beneficial emergence from the symbiosis of healthy microbes and plant. I don’t know why though but the KNF grown stuff I’ve seen just has no comparison.

I agree. So many variables. But my point is i think the soil and inputs directly impart a flavor to the flowers. Just like adding esthers like citrus sweet from botanicare.

While hydro would only introduce usable nutrients so only the plants flavor will be there.


Or something to that effect.

 

[BudGoodman]

Definitely get different terpene profiles with same cultivars grown side by side, but different nutes.
I did it with both Sour D and GSC.
Across the board, myself and friends preferred the Sour grown with salts... But with the GSC, everyone liked the stuff grown with top dress and tea better. YMMV

 

[Aqua Man]

Definitely get different terpene profiles with same cultivars grown side by side, but different nutes.
I did it with both Sour D and GSC.
Across the board, myself and friends preferred the Sour grown with salts... But with the GSC, everyone liked the stuff grown with top dress and tea better. YMMV

I can see that. I mean let's consider the terps and flavoniods that the genetics predominantly produce... they would require different compounds in thier creations so we can't rule out that genetic dependence on a slight change in PH, nutrient requirements, enzymes produced by the plants etc would have an impact and could vary quite a bit as to the production and concentration of certain genetics for terps and flavoniods. For some reason I feel the PH of the plant might play a big role.

One thing I know is that sulfur plays an important role in this

Well thats given me some reading to do lol.

 

[beluga]

Now I'm just fantasizing about the botany of desire and how we have all these billions of plants just, , while we lose our shit trying to figure out, to the nth decimal, what precise specifications they like. And they're just like, 'oh, yeah, I was just fuckin' witcha.'

 

[Hortulanus]

I agree. So many variables. But my point is i think the soil and inputs directly impart a flavor to the flowers. Just like adding esthers like citrus sweet from botanicare.

While hydro would only introduce usable nutrients so only the plants flavor will be there.


Or something to that effect.

Ok I see where you’re coming from there. That’s interesting. I’d be curious to know.

 

[Aqua Man]

I agree. So many variables. But my point is i think the soil and inputs directly impart a flavor to the flowers. Just like adding esthers like citrus sweet from botanicare.

While hydro would only introduce usable nutrients so only the plants flavor will be there.


Or something to that effect.

Notice the ingredients in that? High in sulfur.

 

[Hortulanus]

Notice the ingredients in that? High in sulfur.

That’s why I fart in my tent; it increases the terps and flavs but keeps the bogarts at bay


Edit: Sorry folks I just smoked the first of the day.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Notice the ingredients in that? High in sulfur.

But im talking about the outside influence of flavor.

Like maybe worm castings in OF imparts a sour taste to everything for example that is not there in the pro mix.

Again an example. Getting kind of subjective now with taste.

 

[MIMedGrower]

That’s why I fart in my tent; it increases the terps and flavs but keeps the bogarts at bay


Edit: Sorry folks I just smoked the first of the day.

That is said to enhance the old mr. nice strain “shit”.

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

I am thinking about it like this.

Why does the plant make terps when it just wants to make seeds?

Probably to interact with its environment somehow. Idk how. But the environment triggers it somehow.

What would be present in the environment to trigger an expression that results in more or less terps production?

Idk, other living things that interact with the chemicals via smell or whatever?

And that's as far as I can get. But my hunch is that the expression gets affected by what the plant wants from interactions with other life forms. This would also fit into an idea about far red light, which also affects shade response, affecting terps. Where there is shade, there is likely other life.

Idk if any of that makes the least damn sense or is helpful at all.

To attract pollinators, including the dickhead moths that destroy your buds unfortunately.

 

[Milson]

To attract pollinators, including the dickhead moths that destroy your buds unfortunately.

Yeah, that's am example of one really interesting function! But there might be a lot of others for all i know.

 

[ezenzyme]

So far no ones mentioned sugars; dont sugars play a important role in the oils and resins of your plant? I know some folks love molasses, and some only use for bacteria food in teas or not at all. Sugars in your plant come from many different places, we all know that photosynthesis produces sugars, but things that a lot of folks are incorporating now a days contains sugars. Take malted barley for example, after coot started its use up its seen more and more often now; ever taste a grain? Its sweet; the enzymes catalyze reactions, turning starches and carbohydrates into simple sugars that a seedling can eat. Seed sprouted teas as well contain these starches carbs and sugars. Cold pressed yucca? Carbs. Now on a even further thought, digging what Horantulas said about just getting MORE terps, i have a old Subcool strain book and its got a page that has some terps identified and then paired with terps we find in our life in fruit plants etc etc, what about introduction of more teps via fruit juice or essential oils? I have a friend who layed on some grape juice to some GDP and you could totally taste it....Juice for thought...

 

[Dirtbag]

So far no ones mentioned sugars; dont sugars play a important role in the oils and resins of your plant? I know some folks love molasses, and some only use for bacteria food in teas or not at all. Sugars in your plant come from many different places, we all know that photosynthesis produces sugars, but things that a lot of folks are incorporating now a days contains sugars. Take malted barley for example, after coot started its use up its seen more and more often now; ever taste a grain? Its sweet; the enzymes catalyze reactions, turning starches and carbohydrates into simple sugars that a seedling can eat. Seed sprouted teas as well contain these starches carbs and sugars. Cold pressed yucca? Carbs. Now on a even further thought, digging what Horantulas said about just getting MORE terps, i have a old Subcool strain book and its got a page that has some terps identified and then paired with terps we find in our life in fruit plants etc etc, what about introduction of more teps via fruit juice or essential oils? I have a friend who layed on some grape juice to some GDP and you could totally taste it....Juice for thought...

Malted barely requires temps in excess of 140f for the amylase enzymes to begin cleaving starches into simple sugars. Not gonna happen in a tea. What you do get from SST made from malted barely though is a ton of enzymes and micronutrients.

 

[Aqua Man]

So far no ones mentioned sugars; dont sugars play a important role in the oils and resins of your plant? I know some folks love molasses, and some only use for bacteria food in teas or not at all. Sugars in your plant come from many different places, we all know that photosynthesis produces sugars, but things that a lot of folks are incorporating now a days contains sugars. Take malted barley for example, after coot started its use up its seen more and more often now; ever taste a grain? Its sweet; the enzymes catalyze reactions, turning starches and carbohydrates into simple sugars that a seedling can eat. Seed sprouted teas as well contain these starches carbs and sugars. Cold pressed yucca? Carbs. Now on a even further thought, digging what Horantulas said about just getting MORE terps, i have a old Subcool strain book and its got a page that has some terps identified and then paired with terps we find in our life in fruit plants etc etc, what about introduction of more teps via fruit juice or essential oils? I have a friend who layed on some grape juice to some GDP and you could totally taste it....Juice for thought...

The sugars ppl are feeding are for the microbes... someone correct me if I'm wrong but I do not believe that plants take up sugars or starches but quite the opposite. They produce extra and secrete them from the roots attracting microbes

 

[ezenzyme]

I believe that the enzymes start converting during the germination stage and then its halted by the 140 kiln dry to create a malt. A SST would also introduce carbs and starches that are then converted into sugars by enzymes first and after water in your soil. What about introducing Lemoniene to pine-sol smelling plants? Even if introducing terps from different sources in looked down upon i bet you could get a higher terp level plant with introduction of terps into watering cycles. Also all lights are not the same, like sun vs. hps vs. LED wouldn't that create different levels of natural occurring sugars?

 

[ezenzyme]

Aqua and Dirt you are totally right, i am not under the impression that your plant sucks up sugars lol. Most likely you get blooms of bacteria, at least thats what you do in compost tea. I would imagine that carbs and starches feed fungi mroe so than bacteria.

 

[amekins]

Lol @Dirtbag ill make you a deal. You go organic next and figure it out after then I can copy you.

Next grow for me is redemption. one after that I will do an organic coco in 3 gal pots.

“one after that I will do an organic coco in 3 gal pots.”

That will be my gig to emulate.

 

[Aqua Man]

Aqua and Dirt you are totally right, i am not under the impression that your plant sucks up sugars lol. Most likely you get blooms of bacteria, at least thats what you do in compost tea. I would imagine that carbs and starches feed fungi mroe so than bacteria.

Yeah could well be right... I know in aquatics we avoid adding sugars like the plauge due to bacterial blooms though

 

[amekins]

Yes its absolutely possible. In fact (here we go again.... bumpershining the dirt mobile) i will attempt it in the grow after this next one (my redemption). Feeding with nothing but teas and ammonia from the supermarket. P will likely be my biggest challenge.

Fuck me lol forst time organics and gonna do it in hydro to boot... its should be a shit show.

My head hurts already trying to do calculations

More spreadsheets.