SOS 🆘 Bud hardener questions /hammer head 💔

[Kgunge]

Hey everyone ,
A quick “about me” to help better understand my situation. I just started growing a year ago for a macro grow. Since then, I have been updating and bettering their grow in every way as they are very old school, “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. I’ve asked a few questions here and on Reddit which great success from the answers found. Unfortunately, I’m limited on what I’m allowed to change and can’t make big changes.

The crew here uses hammer head PGR in their recipe. They are not sure how to use it so they’ve been using 5-8ml /per gal during weeks 3-6 of flower. After going online to find out more on hammerhead , oddly enough there isn’t much of anything on the topic.

my questions would be
1) how much hammerhead/bud hardener would y’all recommend? At 5ml per gal it’s given me the most disgusting orange hairs , I wish I was allowed to remove this product from our recipe totally.
2) When do you use your PGR and for
How long ?
3) should anything else be taken into consideration when using a PGR such as hammerhead ? Things like; nutrient EC, nutrient mixing , environmental factors , etc?

any other tips on using bud hardener would be appreciated as it seems like a taboo topic on the internet , not much information. Or if you recommend a different hardener , I’m open to everything. Forgive me if this is the wrong thread I just thought I’d post here since I’m a grower in coco

much love

 

[Kgunge]

These photos are the buds that don’t look too bad. Others are completely covered in orange hairs while still showing signs they have more maturing to do.

 

[Wh1teScorp1on]

I’m kinda surprised they use something without knowing how. lol Week 3-6 should be bulking not hardening if IMO. Try big bud and incredibulk or something similar during that time. For all your hairs to red that is a major flag for me at 3 weeks. Just sayin. Good luck trying to change stupid

 

[GrowHobo]

Looks similar to bush load (paclobutrazol). I wouldn’t use it. You can get similar results with kelp without the cancer. Hammer head is listed for ornamentals also. No thanks!

 

[Kgunge]

These photos are the buds that don’t look too bad. Others are completely covered in orange hairs while still showing signs they have more maturing to do.

I’m kinda surprised they use something without knowing how. lol Week 3-6 should be bulking not hardening if IMO. Try big bud and incredibulk or something similar during that time. For all your hairs to red that is a major flag for me at 3 weeks. Just sayin. Good luck trying to change stupid

listen man, the situation is what it is. Not everybody grows the right way and not many people care beyond the $. This is something I just had to accept. They’ve allowed me to adjust about 60% of the recipe and process and this was the next step for me to change. They don’t know or care , unfortunate, but I’m here trying to make it better.
thanks for your tips I will definitely look into it, any other advice would be appreciated too.

 

[Kgunge]

Looks similar to bush load (paclobutrazol). I wouldn’t use it. You can get similar results with kelp without the cancer. Hammer head is listed for ornamentals also. No thanks!

There is paclo in hammerhead , correct. I’ve used recharge for the first time this run and I can agree with that comment as the kelp in it seemed to help ALOT. Record run this time around but I know forsure they won’t let me take out HH as they think that’s the only thing that gives density.

 

[DistyDemon]

Genetics
Enviroment
Grower skill
Determine density in buds, not cancer in a bottle .

 

[Kgunge]

Genetics
Enviroment
Grower skill
Determine density in buds, not cancer in a bottle .

I understand this. Take the time to read my
Post as it’s out of my control on what to use, peace and love.

 

[lvstealth]

Sad state of things, glad you can adjust some. Keep trying. Maybe ask if you can use one plant for an experiment, and do it like you think then show them the cost and the result.

I don't think they care about cannabis, and if it's money, come up with cheaper and better. They are a business, write it up as a proposal. Show them a plan that puts money in their pocket

 

[Kgunge]

Sad state of things, glad you can adjust some. Keep trying. Maybe ask if you can use one plant for an experiment, and do it like you think then show them the cost and the result.

I don't think they care about cannabis, and if it's money, come up with cheaper and better. They are a business, write it up as a proposal. Show them a plan that puts money in their pocket

Very well said my friend. Which is exactly what I’m doing. I do have ALOT of space to change things but the disgusting hammerhead is one they won’t let go. They only care about weight. We do things so backwards that this run I’m running multiple experiments on many plants. Some experiments would include , instead of 20 gal coco container I’ll be running one 10 gal and one 15gal to see if 20s are useless in this scenario. Also adding some vermiculite in some of the pots since I’m only limited to feeding once a day , automatic feeding is out of the question for my boss. And also I will be using way less hammerhead secretly to preserve quality
If you’d suggest any experiments I’m open to them and I’ll keep the thread posted.
I’ve written up a few posts check out my page , it’s a very unique situation I’m in as I’m the new grower who got put on. But now I know more than their head grower so I’m trying to learn and optimize these warehouses.
Many thanks

 

[DistyDemon]

Well we can always hope their end product must get lab tested before selling. Paklo will show up in their lab tests, and their product will FAIL. Which means xxx amount of lbs of flower will not be legally sold thru metric as the growers were too faking stupid to listen to people when advise is given.

 

[LexLuthor]

Well we can always hope their end product must get lab tested before selling. Paklo will show up in their lab tests, and their product will FAIL. Which means xxx amount of lbs of flower will not be legally sold thru metric as the growers were too faking stupid to listen to people when advise is given.

Damn, that would be crazy if they actually failed testing because of HammerHead, then the OP could be like "I don't you not to use that garbage" lmao. That might be the only way they change.

 

[DistyDemon]

Oh, 100000% they will if testing is mandatory for them.

Have fun explaining that you have xxx lbs of tainted weed. You can extract it all, and remove all paklo. I will not divulge how to do that openly on here. That is a pay to play kinda thing for the SOP.


Also, wtf feeds coco 1x a day? That's a 3-6x daily feed medium.

 

[Geoffo]

Mate theres quite a few different PGRs which can have dramatically different effects -even the same type can differ markedly depending on how its applied, eg foliar or rootdrench, how much is applied and when in the growth-flower cycle.
Some strains need more-less and others dont respond very well to any.

Its so easy to get caught up into believing all the additives and boosts and PGRs will increase yields massively, are needed and spend bare dollar looking for the magic bullet.
Its even easier to fuck things up n do more harm than good - lose yield n quality using them.

Ive experimented with PGRs n spent a fortune on exotic boosts n additives.

I used paclo a few times but only benefit i noticed really was preventing stretch during the stretch period about 10-14days into 12/12.
Chlormequat i use sometimes to reduce stretch, initiate flower set and give hard buds - rox u guys call it - i apply to roots 1/2 to 1ml litre between 10 n 17 days 12/12 i apply once occasionly twice a week later. For me Its more to limit internode stretch than anything else the rests just a bonus. Fucked my plants using it later or at stated doses on the bottle. Less is more. 1/2 to 1ml MAX

Triacontanol. Promotes overall plant vigour reduces stress encourages branching lessens internode gaps by encouraging lateral growth. Plant leaves green up metabolism increases. It can increase overall yields depends how you use it.
I use it both as foliar and or root drench in veg and flower, about 8-10ppm foliar 15-20ppm roots max OCCASIONLY - once every few week.

Brassinolide whats also in some seaweed 0.1ppm as foliar or if in seaweed 1ml litre causes stem elongation, sets off branches opens up buds that are to densely packed tight to allow air in n growth/development

Bap6 seems to make bud walls thicker n denser n buds swell applied 3 week before chopping down.

My experience of using them is you gotta learn IF itll benefit using them at all, dont just use blind cos it says add xxml week 3 5 and 7. If im using one theres a primary reason. Eg the chlormequat, ive say 30 plants and want a SOG even canopy so i apply to the ones biggest allowing the smaller ones time to catch up.
The triacontanol in veg because i want several developed main arms.
Brassinolide to prevent mold in large colas by stretching the main stem..
Ive used growth retardants in early veg to knock them back a few week until wanted etc.
I buy the TRIA pure n mix with polysorbate at a fraction of the price of expensive boosts its in.
I use cheap base NPKs n calmag, the stuff above is either only when necessary or a one off application, only other stuff i use are bennies n funghi.
When i was buying £750 of nutes n boosts a grow yields was no better than the £50 i spend now.

When youre adding nutes-chems remember LESS is MORE trust me on that, underdoing isnt detrimental overdoing fucks your plant