Struggling first time grower - Please help!

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snozzy

7
3
Hi all,
Appologize in advance for the long winded post - this has been building for a while. First time grower and have had a myriad of issues that I can't seem to overcome. Popped seeds on Oct 1 and currently growing in OLS in 15G grassroots living soil pots. Light is a mars Hydro SP3000 LED and have 2 plants in a 4x2 tent. I got off to a bad start with some pretty substantial overwatering early on - while they were still in solo cups. Growth stunted, leaves were formed and more. Once I figured that out, uprooted them to 1G and dried them out a bit, things got a bit better, although still slow growth. Still had watering issues though - never knew if I was over or underwaering at any given time. When I potted up to 15G pots, I mostly got watering under control. It took a while, but the plants ultimately looked very healthy, but still grew incredibly slow. Until that point, the only feeding I had done was top dressing with dry amendments + worm castings and watering with recharge every so often. I eventually became frustrated with slow growth - around week 6-7 and decided they needed a boost so I introduced Foop - an organic bottled line. Around the same time, I added a humidifier and got my VPD in check. Before the humidifier, I was running 73-75f and 50rh. after, humidity was uo to about 60. vpd has been pretty good since. Growth picked seed to pick up, but after a couple of weeks, I started getting really deformed new growth. I was also treating fungus gnats with mosquito bits, so though that might have had something to do with it, but I don't think that was accurate. Deformed growth was soon coupled with discoloration and leaves tacoing up and getting worse. it took me about a week or more, but I finally concluded that this might trace back to the Foop. Specifically, since im in OLS, I haven't been PHing water and assumed I should stay that route when I added the Foop, but I think that may have been a big misstep. Wondering if the reason we don't PH with OLS Is because there is enough buffer in the soil for the NORMAL range if water. With the nutrients, the water solution was now around 3.5-4 PH. Ouch! I Phd the next feeding or two before pulling the plug on the nutrients and going back to water. Been on straight water or water + recharge for at least two weeks and the new growth was slowly getting back to normal-ish, but no change in discoloration and tacoing! I had been getting ready to flower when the first deformed leaves showed up in early December and put it off while I try to get them back on track. I finally decided to flip the lights on 12/23 even though health wasn't totally restored because I felt like I just needed to get on with it - and quite honestly, I'm wanting to ge to the end so I can start fresh. Very depressing. Also on 12/23, I have it another top dressing. On 12/24 I aded a heater to help raise the vpd for flowering. Today, 12/25, almost all new growth looks like the first deformed growth in early December. Ughh!!!!! . Coming into flower, light was at 55%. have bumped it up about 10% each of the last two days and planned to keep doing so till it was at max. Removed the heater for now and raised the light height a bit. Try to keep it around 15-20". Again, sorry for the drawn out saga, but wanted to hopefully paint the whole picture. These girls have struggled in one way or another since the beginning and the most recent struggles are particularly stressful. I'm. here to learn and as such and open to all input. Please help me turn this around. Thanks so much.
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Bellbottomgenes

Bellbottomgenes

43
8
Hi all,
Appologize in advance for the long winded post - this has been building for a while. First time grower and have had a myriad of issues that I can't seem to overcome. Popped seeds on Oct 1 and currently growing in OLS in 15G grassroots living soil pots. Light is a mars Hydro SP3000 LED and have 2 plants in a 4x2 tent. I got off to a bad start with some pretty substantial overwatering early on - while they were still in solo cups. Growth stunted, leaves were formed and more. Once I figured that out, uprooted them to 1G and dried them out a bit, things got a bit better, although still slow growth. Still had watering issues though - never knew if I was over or underwaering at any given time. When I potted up to 15G pots, I mostly got watering under control. It took a while, but the plants ultimately looked very healthy, but still grew incredibly slow. Until that point, the only feeding I had done was top dressing with dry amendments + worm castings and watering with recharge every so often. I eventually became frustrated with slow growth - around week 6-7 and decided they needed a boost so I introduced Foop - an organic bottled line. Around the same time, I added a humidifier and got my VPD in check. Before the humidifier, I was running 73-75f and 50rh. after, humidity was uo to about 60. vpd has been pretty good since. Growth picked seed to pick up, but after a couple of weeks, I started getting really deformed new growth. I was also treating fungus gnats with mosquito bits, so though that might have had something to do with it, but I don't think that was accurate. Deformed growth was soon coupled with discoloration and leaves tacoing up and getting worse. it took me about a week or more, but I finally concluded that this might trace back to the Foop. Specifically, since im in OLS, I haven't been PHing water and assumed I should stay that route when I added the Foop, but I think that may have been a big misstep. Wondering if the reason we don't PH with OLS Is because there is enough buffer in the soil for the NORMAL range if water. With the nutrients, the water solution was now around 3.5-4 PH. Ouch! I Phd the next feeding or two before pulling the plug on the nutrients and going back to water. Been on straight water or water + recharge for at least two weeks and the new growth was slowly getting back to normal-ish, but no change in discoloration and tacoing! I had been getting ready to flower when the first deformed leaves showed up in early December and put it off while I try to get them back on track. I finally decided to flip the lights on 12/23 even though health wasn't totally restored because I felt like I just needed to get on with it - and quite honestly, I'm wanting to ge to the end so I can start fresh. Very depressing. Also on 12/23, I have it another top dressing. On 12/24 I aded a heater to help raise the vpd for flowering. Today, 12/25, almost all new growth looks like the first deformed growth in early December. Ughh!!!!! . Coming into flower, light was at 55%. have bumped it up about 10% each of the last two days and planned to keep doing so till it was at max. Removed the heater for now and raised the light height a bit. Try to keep it around 15-20". Again, sorry for the drawn out saga, but wanted to hopefully paint the whole picture. These girls have struggled in one way or another since the beginning and the most recent struggles are particularly stressful. I'm. here to learn and as such and open to all input. Please help me turn this around. Thanks so much. View attachment 1199950View attachment 1199951View attachment 1199952View attachment 1199953View attachment 1199954View attachment 1199955View attachment 1199956View attachment 1199957
I will say this though... as an led user you will want that vpd higher than you think because of lack of ir heat... so I'd say Temps at 80 ish and humidity at 50-55.... Temps definitely need to be higher... I'd try for 83-84 on canopy and that light color and tacoing looks maybe like N and P deficiency... but I'm no expert.... again this site isn't the 1 to be getting help on... I'd look further if I were you... they deleted my last reply lol but honestly. Better places out there
 
Last edited:
mysticepipedon

mysticepipedon

4,738
263
The discoloration you're seeing on lower leaves is from a magnesium deficiency.

Do you have a lot of air circulation in your grow space?
 
Bellbottomgenes

Bellbottomgenes

43
8
My guess Is N was not loaded up enough before the stretch earlier on and now is showing deficiency... and ratio is not correct to fix the issue... because now in flowering using more p and k
 
freezeland2

freezeland2

3,421
263
Okay does new growth have tacoing canoeing on leaves .....
It can as it emerges. You can open the OP’s pic and point to specific leaf sets. I’m not saying your wrong, but I’m more inclined to agree with mystic’s observations by what I see in the pics.
 
Bellbottomgenes

Bellbottomgenes

43
8
Possibly... but I seriously doubt some epsom is going to fix all that's going on there
 
S

snozzy

7
3
I will say this though... as an led user you will want that vpd higher than you think because of lack of ir heat... so I'd say Temps at 80 ish and humidity at 50-55.... Temps definitely need to be higher... I'd try for 83-84 on canopy and that light color and tacoing looks maybe like N and P deficiency... but I'm no expert.... again this site isn't the 1 to be getting help on... I'd look further if I were you... they deleted my last reply lol but honestly. Better places out there
Thanks - I thought the same on the temp, which is why I added the heater, which has been temp removed from th situation since it was the last variable to cage before today's new deformed growth. Do you have a different site in mind that I should post this?
 
S

snozzy

7
3
The discoloration you're seeing on lower leaves is from a magnesium deficiency.

Do you have a lot of air circulation in your grow space?
Most discoloration is towards the top. I do have good airflow. once fixed fan under the canopy and another oscillating up top plus the exhaust fan. One detail I left out is that earlier this week I did a fouler epson salt spray in case the was magnesium. No positive change it seemed to eat holes in a few leaves and one of the picture shows where the tips pointed almost straight up very soon after that.
 
Bellbottomgenes

Bellbottomgenes

43
8
Thanks - I thought the same on the temp, which is why I added the heater, which has been temp removed from th situation since it was the last variable to cage before today's new deformed growth. Do you have a different site in mind that I should post this?
 
Bellbottomgenes

Bellbottomgenes

43
8
Yes I sent you a private message... you'll thank me later!!!! Merry Christmas!!!
 
S

snozzy

7
3
Okay does new growth have tacoing canoeing on leaves .....
Tacoing appears on a given node by the time the next node starts to form and gets worse from there. The newest emerging nodes are super deformed as of today, like little nubs which the pics have a couple views of.
 
S

snozzy

7
3
It can as it emerges. You can open the OP’s pic and point to specific leaf sets. I’m not saying your wrong, but I’m more inclined to agree with mystic’s observations by what I see in the pics.
If it's a mag deficiency, how would treat in living soil? My foliar spray seems to do more damage than good. Any thought to my theory of getting the soil ph out of whack with those couple of weeks of feeding a super acidic solution?
 
growsince79

growsince79

9,065
313
I will say this though... as an led user you will want that vpd higher than you think because of lack of ir heat... so I'd say Temps at 80 ish and humidity at 50-55.... Temps definitely need to be higher... I'd try for 83-84 on canopy and that light color and tacoing looks maybe like N and P deficiency... but I'm no expert.... again this site isn't the 1 to be getting help on... I'd look further if I were you... they deleted my last reply lol but honestly. Better places out there
Agree with needing warmer temps. Get the leaf temps up to 78 and they uptake nutes better and grow faster.
 
growsince79

growsince79

9,065
313
Hi all,
Appologize in advance for the long winded post - this has been building for a while. First time grower and have had a myriad of issues that I can't seem to overcome. Popped seeds on Oct 1 and currently growing in OLS in 15G grassroots living soil pots. Light is a mars Hydro SP3000 LED and have 2 plants in a 4x2 tent. I got off to a bad start with some pretty substantial overwatering early on - while they were still in solo cups. Growth stunted, leaves were formed and more. Once I figured that out, uprooted them to 1G and dried them out a bit, things got a bit better, although still slow growth. Still had watering issues though - never knew if I was over or underwaering at any given time. When I potted up to 15G pots, I mostly got watering under control. It took a while, but the plants ultimately looked very healthy, but still grew incredibly slow. Until that point, the only feeding I had done was top dressing with dry amendments + worm castings and watering with recharge every so often. I eventually became frustrated with slow growth - around week 6-7 and decided they needed a boost so I introduced Foop - an organic bottled line. Around the same time, I added a humidifier and got my VPD in check. Before the humidifier, I was running 73-75f and 50rh. after, humidity was uo to about 60. vpd has been pretty good since. Growth picked seed to pick up, but after a couple of weeks, I started getting really deformed new growth. I was also treating fungus gnats with mosquito bits, so though that might have had something to do with it, but I don't think that was accurate. Deformed growth was soon coupled with discoloration and leaves tacoing up and getting worse. it took me about a week or more, but I finally concluded that this might trace back to the Foop. Specifically, since im in OLS, I haven't been PHing water and assumed I should stay that route when I added the Foop, but I think that may have been a big misstep. Wondering if the reason we don't PH with OLS Is because there is enough buffer in the soil for the NORMAL range if water. With the nutrients, the water solution was now around 3.5-4 PH. Ouch! I Phd the next feeding or two before pulling the plug on the nutrients and going back to water. Been on straight water or water + recharge for at least two weeks and the new growth was slowly getting back to normal-ish, but no change in discoloration and tacoing! I had been getting ready to flower when the first deformed leaves showed up in early December and put it off while I try to get them back on track. I finally decided to flip the lights on 12/23 even though health wasn't totally restored because I felt like I just needed to get on with it - and quite honestly, I'm wanting to ge to the end so I can start fresh. Very depressing. Also on 12/23, I have it another top dressing. On 12/24 I aded a heater to help raise the vpd for flowering. Today, 12/25, almost all new growth looks like the first deformed growth in early December. Ughh!!!!! . Coming into flower, light was at 55%. have bumped it up about 10% each of the last two days and planned to keep doing so till it was at max. Removed the heater for now and raised the light height a bit. Try to keep it around 15-20". Again, sorry for the drawn out saga, but wanted to hopefully paint the whole picture. These girls have struggled in one way or another since the beginning and the most recent struggles are particularly stressful. I'm. here to learn and as such and open to all input. Please help me turn this around. Thanks so much. View attachment 1199950View attachment 1199951View attachment 1199952View attachment 1199953View attachment 1199954View attachment 1199955View attachment 1199956View attachment 1199957
Id back off the light.
 
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