Yield help needed from the pros!

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wreign

wreign

13
3
Hey growers!


have been trying to improve my yield for 3 cycles and while slowly improving still far from the norm I see everyone talking about ....1g/w..50g/sf...etc. Would really appreciate some feedback from experienced growers here.


Here's my setup:

Veg
- separate veg room with LEDS. Getting about 200PPFD at the canopy
- when they are about 20 inches i transplant into 7gals and veg them in flower room for another month
- no problems in veg
- I now veg until they are 36-40 inches tall (not counting the container) before I flip
- have tried flipping at 20 inches, 24 inches, 30 inches, 36 and 42 inches


Flower

- promix
- 12 1000w DE's
- start flower at 600w ramp up to 1000w by day 10, run 1100w until week 6
- during the first 6 weeks they are getting about 700PPFD at the canopy
- last two weeks I dial down to 750w and they are at 450PPFD
- leaf temp is never above 78F
- i have tried 9, 6, 5, 4 and 3 plans per light
- light space is 4x5
- pretty much veg until all space is filled then flip
- i lollipop, use SOG net and fill the squares
- my last run i had about 12-18 tops per plant
- use pro mix, veg in 1 gals, transplant into 7 gals, veg some more then flip
- no CO2
- water every other day for the first 3 weeks, then once per day for 4-6, then back to every other day, last week about once every 3 days
- nutes are 800-1100 during first half of the flower, then 700 till the end
- i go heavy on potash after week 3 all the way until week 6-7
- generally do not have any nutes, ash, quality issues. smoke is great, taste is awesome no complaints
- full air circulation


My problem:

- Ive run 3 cycles
- 1st cycle .6/lb per light had lost of heat problems
- 2nd cycle .75 per light still some heat problems
- 3rd cycle 1.25 per light solved heat problems
- last cycle was the best one to date, had 4 plants under a bulb and flipped at 38inches on average. each plant filled a 2x2+ was getting just a bit crowded but manageable. got just over 4 oz per plant.


My production cost per lb is $400, not counting labour. I need to hit 1.5lb per light in order to make this sustainable. Ideally 2lb so I get to that 1g/w.

Some Ideas im considering trying to increase yield:

- i will be adding lights to VEG room so I can grow to desired size all the way there but this will not solve the flower room yield problem
- upgading to LEDs is not an option at this time
- I dont want to run CO2 until i have fully maximized everything else
- one option is to water less but more frequently, maybe downsize pots to 5 gal so they dryback faster and water daily
- or do drip feed twice per day
- introduce foliar spray Ive researched some stuff that can boost yield by 20% or so they claim
- run lights closer to the canopy, cut to 800w and run like 2 feet away, ive measured can boost PPFD to about 800 so 15% more from current levels
- add MH bulb last 10 days
- add oxygen pump and oxygen meter to aim for 45% dyssolved oxygen


I'm sure I missed a few things. I should also add that while this is my 3rd run in this setup I have been growing a while back but took a break for a few years. I have never gotten more than 1lb per 1000w but back than was doing 20-25 2 gals in 4x4 with 2 week veg.

Thank you in advance!
 
growsince79

growsince79

9,065
313
Hey growers!


have been trying to improve my yield for 3 cycles and while slowly improving still far from the norm I see everyone talking about ....1g/w..50g/sf...etc. Would really appreciate some feedback from experienced growers here.


Here's my setup:

Veg
- separate veg room with LEDS. Getting about 200PPFD at the canopy
- when they are about 20 inches i transplant into 7gals and veg them in flower room for another month
- no problems in veg
- I now veg until they are 36-40 inches tall (not counting the container) before I flip
- have tried flipping at 20 inches, 24 inches, 30 inches, 36 and 42 inches


Flower

- promix
- 12 1000w DE's
- start flower at 600w ramp up to 1000w by day 10, run 1100w until week 6
- during the first 6 weeks they are getting about 700PPFD at the canopy
- last two weeks I dial down to 750w and they are at 450PPFD
- leaf temp is never above 78F
- i have tried 9, 6, 5, 4 and 3 plans per light
- light space is 4x5
- pretty much veg until all space is filled then flip
- i lollipop, use SOG net and fill the squares
- my last run i had about 12-18 tops per plant
- use pro mix, veg in 1 gals, transplant into 7 gals, veg some more then flip
- no CO2
- water every other day for the first 3 weeks, then once per day for 4-6, then back to every other day, last week about once every 3 days
- nutes are 800-1100 during first half of the flower, then 700 till the end
- i go heavy on potash after week 3 all the way until week 6-7
- generally do not have any nutes, ash, quality issues. smoke is great, taste is awesome no complaints
- full air circulation


My problem:

- Ive run 3 cycles
- 1st cycle .6/lb per light had lost of heat problems
- 2nd cycle .75 per light still some heat problems
- 3rd cycle 1.25 per light solved heat problems
- last cycle was the best one to date, had 4 plants under a bulb and flipped at 38inches on average. each plant filled a 2x2+ was getting just a bit crowded but manageable. got just over 4 oz per plant.


My production cost per lb is $400, not counting labour. I need to hit 1.5lb per light in order to make this sustainable. Ideally 2lb so I get to that 1g/w.

Some Ideas im considering trying to increase yield:

- i will be adding lights to VEG room so I can grow to desired size all the way there but this will not solve the flower room yield problem
- upgading to LEDs is not an option at this time
- I dont want to run CO2 until i have fully maximized everything else
- one option is to water less but more frequently, maybe downsize pots to 5 gal so they dryback faster and water daily
- or do drip feed twice per day
- introduce foliar spray Ive researched some stuff that can boost yield by 20% or so they claim
- run lights closer to the canopy, cut to 800w and run like 2 feet away, ive measured can boost PPFD to about 800 so 15% more from current levels
- add MH bulb last 10 days
- add oxygen pump and oxygen meter to aim for 45% dyssolved oxygen


I'm sure I missed a few things. I should also add that while this is my 3rd run in this setup I have been growing a while back but took a break for a few years. I have never gotten more than 1lb per 1000w but back than was doing 20-25 2 gals in 4x4 with 2 week veg.

Thank you in advance!
I'd skip the veg and go straight to flower 1.5g in 10 weeks is better than 1.5g in 5 months. And $400lb is ridiculous. I can grow a pound for under $100-$125
 
Shaded_One

Shaded_One

1,866
263

Having some realistic expectations is the first step. Second step is your controlled variables - VPD, grower, genetics etc. Your veg times do seem to be insanely long.

"one option is to water less but more frequently, maybe downsize pots to 5 gal so they dryback faster and water daily" the general rule of thumb is larger pots = larger plants = larger yields.

You should also be getting your lights close or at their max intensity while in the peak of veg and slowly taper off near the end of flower. That's how it is in the real world. You want 1.5g/w and above then switch to LED :)
 
indogrow420

indogrow420

291
63
 
wreign

wreign

13
3
I'd skip the veg and go straight to flower 1.5g in 10 weeks is better than 1.5g in 5 months. And $400lb is ridiculous. I can grow a pound for under $100-$125
Once my veg room is 100% dialed in the flower room will be perpetual. Just my hydro bill per light is like $150. But none of this answers the yield problem. Youre saying I should go more small plants under a light?
 
wreign

wreign

13
3

Having some realistic expectations is the first step. Second step is your controlled variables - VPD, grower, genetics etc. Your veg times do seem to be insanely long.

"one option is to water less but more frequently, maybe downsize pots to 5 gal so they dryback faster and water daily" the general rule of thumb is larger pots = larger plants = larger yields.

You should also be getting your lights close or at their max intensity while in the peak of veg and slowly taper off near the end of flower. That's how it is in the real world. You want 1.5g/w and above then switch to LED :)
Thank you. I think I'm being fairly stable considering Im losing money every grow lol. Are you saying 1g/w is unreasonable without CO2? regarding VPD, i paid very close attention to VPD the first 2 runs and for the 3rd run decided to just wing it. Kept the room 75-76F max. RH was around 60-65. This is not too bad. What yield bump % can i expect between 90% and 100% dialed in VPD?

As for genetics, I have 5 completely strains and all produced very similar results. All indica hybrids.

have you tried this "larger pots = larger plants = larger yields.:"? I get same yield per sq foot from more smalls vs less larger ones.
 
wreign

wreign

13
3
..... well. Here the price is lower than your production cost. 1.25 isn't unusual. For a light. To go higher you'd need an audit of sorts. And most likely CO2.
yes exacly my problem. So youre saying no way to hit 1g/w or 2 pounds per 1000w de light without co2?
 
Ponky

Ponky

3,941
263
yes exacly my problem. So youre saying no way to hit 1g/w or 2 pounds per 1000w de light without co2?
There is. But genetics and air in and out isn't as reliable. The good weed doesn't yield as much as the bulky crops. You could space the crop out and add light movers. But only if you have more room.
 
wreign

wreign

13
3
There is. But genetics and air in and out isn't as reliable. The good weed doesn't yield as much as the bulky crops. You could space the crop out and add light movers. But only if you have more room.
ok so basically veg longer to get a few more branches and expand to like 5x5 canopy instead of 4x5.
 
Shaded_One

Shaded_One

1,866
263
Thank you. I think I'm being fairly stable considering Im losing money every grow lol. Are you saying 1g/w is unreasonable without CO2? regarding VPD, i paid very close attention to VPD the first 2 runs and for the 3rd run decided to just wing it. Kept the room 75-76F max. RH was around 60-65. This is not too bad. What yield bump % can i expect between 90% and 100% dialed in VPD?

As for genetics, I have 5 completely strains and all produced very similar results. All indica hybrids.

have you tried this "larger pots = larger plants = larger yields.:"? I get same yield per sq foot from more smalls vs less larger ones.

You're hitting the lower and upper limits(0.6-1g/w) that most people see for HID lights without CO2 supplementation so take that for what its worth. Fine tuning your environment will only help increase those numbers, and you could be like everyone else that grows for money and just grow high yielding strains. It depends on your grow style but yes the general rule is larger pots = larger plants.

You should easily be pulling 400-600g from each 4x4 space
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
What genetics are you running? I get very different yields out of the same growspace, same everything and only change genetics.

For yield, I think genetics are the most important variable.

Where are you in the world? You use pounds and inches and F but spell it labour? You got me curious.
 
wreign

wreign

13
3
You're hitting the lower and upper limits(0.6-1g/w) that most people see for HID lights without CO2 supplementation so take that for what its worth. Fine tuning your environment will only help increase those numbers, and you could be like everyone else that grows for money and just grow high yielding strains. It depends on your grow style but yes the general rule is larger pots = larger plants.

You should easily be pulling 400-600g from each 4x4 space
Thanks. Yes thats what Im pulling right now 600grams per 4x5. per 1000watt DE. but isnt that low? Im not into growing garbage. I want to grow quality herb I just didnt think .8gram per watt is so hard to achieve. Obviously theres a learning curve but lots of ppl are bragging of 2lbs per light like its an every day thing...i though something wrong with me.
 
Ponky

Ponky

3,941
263
Thanks. Yes thats what Im pulling right now 600grams per 4x5. per 1000watt DE. but isnt that low? Im not into growing garbage. I want to grow quality herb I just didnt think .8gram per watt is so hard to achieve. Obviously theres a learning curve but lots of ppl are bragging of 2lbs per light like its an every day thing...i though something wrong with me.
2 poinds a light of hash plant with smalls is what they're saying. Weed like that sells for 200 a pound. Real weed can still fetch 1100. Regular kush is around 450. So. Only the kill is worth having. Even at a pound a light.
 
wreign

wreign

13
3
What genetics are you running? I get very different yields out of the same growspace, same everything and only change genetics.

For yield, I think genetics are the most important variable.

Where are you in the world? You use pounds and inches and F but spell it labour? You got me curious.
Last run I had Slurricane #7, Gorilla Breath, Green Mac (Green crack x mac 1), Roasted Garlic Margy, and White Wedding.
It appears white wedding has the most potential for yield as I only had 8 plants in 3 gals that were flowered at 1foot and I got an oz per plant. Im growing these to 3 ft befor flip this run.
Im from Toronto, Canada.
How much of a yield could we be talking about re genetics? like 30%+
 
Shaded_One

Shaded_One

1,866
263
Thanks. Yes thats what Im pulling right now 600grams per 4x5. per 1000watt DE. but isnt that low? Im not into growing garbage. I want to grow quality herb I just didnt think .8gram per watt is so hard to achieve. Obviously theres a learning curve but lots of ppl are bragging of 2lbs per light like its an every day thing...i though something wrong with me.

Time to get with the times :) LED's are not expensive and you are losing money with your current setup. Even an average grower with a 600w LED in a 4x4 can get upwards of 800g out of a run.

Let me put it this way, genetics are the single most important factor when it comes to determining yield assuming all other factors are equal. If you don't have your other variables dialed in then it doesn't matter what genetics you use because you can't expect to be in the upper threshold anyways.
 
indogrow420

indogrow420

291
63
Average top brand HPS 1.7ųmol/j

Lm301b quantum board leds claiming up to 2.9ųmol/j efficiency? Idk about how leds vs hps compares but ur bill will drop
 
Ponky

Ponky

3,941
263
Last run I had Slurricane #7, Gorilla Breath, Green Mac (Green crack x mac 1), Roasted Garlic Margy, and White Wedding.
It appears white wedding has the most potential for yield as I only had 8 plants in 3 gals that were flowered at 1foot and I got an oz per plant. Im growing these to 3 ft befor flip this run.
Im from Toronto, Canada.
How much of a yield could we be talking about re genetics? like 30%+
If you were growing those here. With your cost. You'd be losing about 200 a pound. LEDs might be the way.
 
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