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I could really use some help, Plants like paper and deforming. Oh boy.

  • Thread starter Thread starter FunkyShot
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I could really use some help, Plants like paper and deforming. Oh boy.

FunkyShot 38 Replies 3,745 Views
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Wow, Thank you for the extremely, extremely helpful tips. Thanks to an earlier post I moved the lights way further away, According to the number you just gave me and that handy calculator I have them right at about 160 ppfd right now. The dirt is like that honestly because I had 4 buckets and just a bit short on the dirt. I can get more but should I let the plants grow a-bit more before moving them or would it be best to just pick up half the dirt and fill in under the plant? As for air there is a fan on the top angled diagonally on all the plants but I see what you mean, Nothing On the sides or bottoms are probably going to get decent airflow. Thank you!
If you want to correct your grow media you could buy some 5 gallon cloth pots and extra media and transplant into them. As has been mentioned, the cloth pots will help oxygenate the soil and help in overwatering.
 
Wow, Thank you for the extremely, extremely helpful tips. Thanks to an earlier post I moved the lights way further away, According to the number you just gave me and that handy calculator I have them right at about 160 ppfd right now. The dirt is like that honestly because I had 4 buckets and just a bit short on the dirt. I can get more but should I let the plants grow a-bit more before moving them or would it be best to just pick up half the dirt and fill in under the plant? As for air there is a fan on the top angled diagonally on all the plants but I see what you mean, Nothing On the sides or bottoms are probably going to get decent airflow. Thank you!
Id scoop em out carfully and fill. Over watering is going to be a big problem with that soil so really really try not to water to often.

The pot should feel like its filled with dry dort between watering and that may take several days to a werk or more in that soil. If they start to wilt from water they will look like they are going to die immediately but recover instantly almost.

It may be worth letting then get that dry to get an idea of what kind of water schedule your looking at. Here is a video i made of how fast they recover and what it will look like when they are wilti from being to dry.


you do t want direct airflow on the plants but rather just a slight air movement. The plants dont need to move. Wind and low humidity together will cause scorching along leaf edges like you see. As will a K deficiency since it helps regulate water flow and transpiration through the plants.

i suggest staying away from miracle grow soils as they can make for a difficult time for even experienced growers because of the nutrient ratio, concentrations, PH and very high water holding capacity.

something like a peat based promix HP is a good type to start with in a soil tyoe grow…. Much more forgiving.
 
If you want to correct your grow media you could buy some 5 gallon cloth pots and extra media and transplant into them. As has been mentioned, the cloth pots will help oxygenate the soil and help in overwatering.
This is a good option. I dont like transplanting unhealthy and stressed plants but in this case im with you and its with the risk. To add try to gently temove the soil around the roots because you really dont want to have a root ball in one type of media that has to grow into a different media or that can create a whole host of other challenges
 
I'll throw in my favorite soil media.




The Roots Organic and Fox Farm are going to have different water and nutrient needs than the ProMix but all of them have been used successfully for years.
 
This is a good option. I dont like transplanting unhealthy and stressed plants but in this case im with you and its with the risk. To add try to gently temove the soil around the roots because you really dont want to have a root ball in one type of media that has to grow into a different media or that can create a whole host of other challenges
YESSSSS!!! Before you transplant prepare all the pots you are going to be transplanting into but even before that pre-preparation says you need to let them dry back some so that it's easier to slide the media out of the pot. Once you have the media out of the pot CAREFULLY brush away the dirt the roots are in. You can use a bucket of water to dip the roots into to remove the remaining media.

I like to try and tent the roots over a dirt ball meaning once the roots are cleaned of media I try and spread them out like a tent and lay them on top of the small dirt mound I put in the hole. Once they're layed out I backfill with dirt and PRESS DOWN on the media so that I remove any air spaces. Not too hard but a firm push should be fine since the soil will have a little spring back upon compression.

Try and somewhat overfill with your new media. Once you water them in the soil will compact. You may want to do one the whole way through so that once you water it in you have a better idea of how much overfill you need to do to fill to the desired soil line.
 
wait till next watering to transplant, add myco for root builder, liquid kelp for transplant stress
Also raise humidity to 75% and reduce lights to absolutely min for 2-3 days. That will reduce any transplant shock to almost nothing by reducing the transpiration demand on the roots until they get settled in and established
 
If you’re going to add nutrients while still in time released miracle grow, add 1/4 to 1/2 of nitrogen based nutrients.

That’s one of the issues with miracle grow - it’s easy to give your plants too much nitrogen (and possibly other nutrients based on the mix).

It’s not impossible using miracle grow, but it’s definitely more challenging.

Also, don’t make too many changes at once - you could cause the plants to stress. Adjusting the lights and getting your watering down are the most important things, and sounds like you’re on your way :)
 
Also raise humidity to 75% and reduce lights to absolutely min for 2-3 days. That will reduce any transplant shock to almost nothing by reducing the transpiration demand on the roots until they get settled in and established
Again YESSSSS!!!

I just went through this on some clones that were mailed to me. I forgot to LUX the light output and had it too high. After a couple days of transplant they didn't look very happy. Once I realized the error I corrected and they're perking up real nice!!!

I like to water in some Hormex for transplant shock. Seems to help them recover faster.
 
Afterthought.....since you'll be pulling the media out when it's dry separate it from the roots by submerging the entire media into a large bucket of water.

Why? The roots are clinging to the dry media. Regardless of how careful you are you're going to do SOME root damage if you try and do it by hand. If you submerge the media it will gently remove the old media with minimal root damage. You're going to have a lot of wet dirt on your hands but maybe you can use the MG out in your garden or something.
 
Never fill buckets part ways it will likely give an undesirable water table. Read here for understanding.


your humidity is an issue if anything it should be higher during the day and lower at night. you want about 65% light on. Read here for understanding of importance.


your light is a blurple use both red and blue switches on and adjust to the desired intensity. You have WAAAAY TO MUCH LIGHT. Lux measures mostly green spectrum and cannot be used as a crossover for full soectrum LED with white. I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. Your ppfd should be around 150 on those plants right now At 8000 lux under just blue you are at 950ppfd thats as much as a full grow plant can handle in flower under 12/12 and is you LARGEST issue right now.

turn both switches on red and blue and do the following

use this link and select red + blue LED as the source. You will see you want no more than 2000 lux for this stage

Hey Aqua man...don't you mean 20,000 lux as max...not 2,000? I use an digital lux meter and I get about 25,000 across the top of my plants under t5 they can grow into the light and get 30,000 at 1" away. Do those numbers not correlate with led?

When I first looked at your plants it says soil is too hot with nute's Dark waxy leaves..= too much food.... lime .light green means not enough food......
 
Hey Aqua man...don't you mean 20,000 lux as max...not 2,000? I use an digital lux meter and I get about 25,000 across the top of my plants under t5 they can grow into the light and get 30,000 at 1" away. Do those numbers not correlate with led?
Nope your right in your observation of yours though. Red + blue + white gives a completely different par reading after conversion from lux to par than a red + blue only spectrum. This is because the white is high in the green spectrum and the way lux measurements are taken is mostly from the green spectrum and then a conversion factor is used to calculate par or ppfd.

see the same lux value under varying forms of light sources below. The first is 20,000 lux under high cri 4000k LED. The second is blue and red only (blurple). Umols per m2 is ppfd.



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371FCEC2 7515 4E0B A244 D5DAD7786A0C
 
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Fluorescent, cmh, mh, hps and led all need conversions from lux to ppfd to be used.

this is why a par meter is superior to a lux meter as a par meter will read all spectrums from 400-700nm a lux mainly measure green and the best is a quantum meter that can measure an even further range outside of par like IR and UV.
we see the same issue with ppl using a par meter to try and measure UV spectrums
 
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Fluorescent, cmh, mh, hps and led all need conversions from lux to ppfd to be used.

this is why a par meter is superior to a lux meter as a par meter will read all spectrums from 400-700nm a lux mainly measure green and the best is a wuantum meter that can measure an even further range outside of par live IR and UV.
we see the same issue with ppl using a par meter to try and measure UV spectrums
Too many numbers for me to remember so I use it as A guide along with the dimmer to keep track of what this tool gives me. Trying to do the ppfd and umol/s/m2 is just too much to ask this old guy so lux gives me a dam good ball park.....it might not be good in the majors but it gives me something to go by. .......Look I'm buying the tools and and trying to use them but gee's man none of the pie are square stuff...that's what the tools are for...😁
 
Nope your right in your observation of yours though. Red + blue + white gives a completely different par reading after conversion from lux to par than a red + blue only spectrum. This is because the white is high in the green spectrum and the way lux measurements are taken is mostly from the green spectrum and then a conversion factor is used to calculate par or ppfd.

see the same lux value under varying forms of light sources below. The first is 20,000 lux under high cri 4000k LED. The second is blue and red only (blurple). Umols per m2 is ppfd.



View attachment 1320138
View attachment 1320139
How do you determine whether your fixture is a high CRI 6500 vs 4000?
 
How do you determine whether your fixture is a high CRI 6500 vs 4000?
Under the rating… most list the cri and color temp in K (kelvin) which is expressed with a number before the K. 3000K being more red leaning and 5000k more blue leaning

some info on cri

 
After adding some nutes and a bit of cal mag and moving the lights up about 16 inches.... The girls are doing quite better! I'll make sure to post a few photos when they are ready to have there photo taken again! I most definitely will switch the containers when I get paid next, cant spare the 30 bucks on this project right this second. Thank you so much guys!
 
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