Overwhelmed with info about ph and nutrients

[dime_slayer]

I'm on my second grow and it's been a struggle on both grows. Everything works well until I get into flower and it all goes to poop. I've done well over 100 hours of research and it starts to get overwhelming. I'm currently trying to figure out if I have locked the nutes out or over/under fed. I keep running into people arguing and I don't know what to believe. For example in soil it seems 50% believe the soil will adjust the ph of your water so no need to ph your water, then the other 50% say you must ph your water.





Anyway here's my set up. 240w light at 1000ppfd, fox farms ocean forest mixed with happy trees fog and perlite in 5gal fabric pots. Fox farms liquid trio and dry trio. Half way thru flower with barney's shishkaberry. Vpd 1-1.2. Tap water always adjusted to 6.2ph



In veg everything was great. Started using the fox farms nutes based on their feeding chart, but at half strength. Plant seemed to love it so I ramped it up to full dose. Eventually I started getting some burnt edges and tips. This is where it goes to poop. I cut the nutes out and it didn't get any better, continued to yellow from the bottom. Well if just water isn't making it better I reckoned what I thought was nute burn must be a k deficiency. Added the nutes back in at full strength and the yellowing progressed faster. At that point I flushed a bunch of water thru it and got 4.9ph, 700ppm run off, and 5.5 soil slurry. After flushing it, it looks God awful on top of the canopy. At this point I have no idea on my direction. The first few pics are current and the last 3 are from last week when I flushed it

 

[ArtfulCodger]

I've run Fox Farm soils and synthetic nutes a lot. Here's a way that has worked well for me. I run Happy Frog in veg and Ocean Forest in flower. I'm always checking my runoff ppms/EC. When the runoff falls below 1,000 ppms (2.0 EC) I'll either: 1) feed 600 ppms, watering to runoff, or 2) transplant into a larger pot of fresh soil. I'll usually get 3-4 weeks out of new soil. Once I'm out of seedling and into veg, I might only feed two or three times for the rest of the grow. Usually twice in flower.

As for pH, the FF soils do have some buffering capacity. I don't hyper focus on input pH, but I have to a little because my tap water is pH 9.5. So I adjust the pH of any inputs down to anywhere between 5.0 and 7.0. I don't get too precious with it, so over the course of a grow, I'll be watering at different pHes in that range. Also, if I'm under LEDs, I'm always supplementing magnesium. Calmag in non-feed waterings through F3, and mag sulfur from F4 to the week before chop.

Lots of ways to grow. That's just a way that's worked for me. Hope that helps.

 

[dime_slayer]

I should have been measuring my run off the whole time. I've been using nutes every other watering and not checking. Next go around I plan measure it often and most likely use nutes less frequently.

I'm fairly certain I have a nute lockout blocking potassium uptake. If I've understood it correctly over feeding nutes can cause the soil ph to become acidic to a degree, enough to cause lockout, idk. I also read that the buffers in the soil should take care of that so it's not an issue. Idk what would be causing lockout

 

[Beachbumm]

I should have been measuring my run off the whole time. I've been using nutes every other watering and not checking. Next go around I plan measure it often and most likely use nutes less frequently.

I'm fairly certain I have a nute lockout blocking potassium uptake. If I've understood it correctly over feeding nutes can cause the soil ph to become acidic to a degree, enough to cause lockout, idk. I also read that the buffers in the soil should take care of that so it's not an issue. Idk what would be causing lockout

The yellow leaves won't green up but you can stop the damage.

Do a slurry test on your soil and post the results.

 

[Natep]

Switch to living organic and never worry about any of that again.

 

[dime_slayer]

The yellow leaves won't green up but you can stop the damage.

Do a slurry test on your soil and post the results.

I did a slurry test last week and I still have it on my counter top. Sitting at 4.99ph right now. I got the soil from the top.
If I need to do another slurry test from deeper I can.

 

[dime_slayer]

Switch to living organic and never worry about any of that again.

It does seem easier as far as feeding it goes but it looks difficult making your own living soil. Getting the right mixture of ingredients and amounts seems subjective.

 

[SinCity]

I'm on my second grow and it's been a struggle on both grows. Everything works well until I get into flower and it all goes to poop. I've done well over 100 hours of research and it starts to get overwhelming. I'm currently trying to figure out if I have locked the nutes out or over/under fed. I keep running into people arguing and I don't know what to believe. For example in soil it seems 50% believe the soil will adjust the ph of your water so no need to ph your water, then the other 50% say you must ph your water.





Anyway here's my set up. 240w light at 1000ppfd, fox farms ocean forest mixed with happy trees fog and perlite in 5gal fabric pots. Fox farms liquid trio and dry trio. Half way thru flower with barney's shishkaberry. Vpd 1-1.2. Tap water always adjusted to 6.2ph



In veg everything was great. Started using the fox farms nutes based on their feeding chart, but at half strength. Plant seemed to love it so I ramped it up to full dose. Eventually I started getting some burnt edges and tips. This is where it goes to poop. I cut the nutes out and it didn't get any better, continued to yellow from the bottom. Well if just water isn't making it better I reckoned what I thought was nute burn must be a k deficiency. Added the nutes back in at full strength and the yellowing progressed faster. At that point I flushed a bunch of water thru it and got 4.9ph, 700ppm run off, and 5.5 soil slurry. After flushing it, it looks God awful on top of the canopy. At this point I have no idea on my direction. The first few pics are current and the last 3 are from last week when I flushed it

Don’t panic( @Captspaulding )
Seriously, you’re doing just fine. There’s very accomplished growers here, many of whom are incredibly generous with their guidance. I’m not one of them. But I am a halfway decent facilitator. IMHO, I think all you need to do is simplify. Others will know better what to do at this point in your cycle. But for your next one, don’t use Fox Farm or any other amended soil. Use ProMix—it’s perfectly aerated, already has perlite, it’s sterile and the pH is neutral. Ditch the Fox Farm and go for the always reliable, easy to use, been doing it for decades, highly soluble General Hydroponics Flora Series nutrient line: Gro, Bloom, and Micros. Buy a brand new plastic 32-gallon garbage can. Fill it a little over two-thirds up with whatever water comes out of your hose. That way you know you have about 20 gallons, so you can calculate the correct amount of fluid to add from the GH bottles. Use a measuring cup. Once you’ve added the nutes, stir the water for a bit. It’s best if it’s not super cold water. Then pH it with a well-maintained pen. I find smaller bottles of up and down easier to handle and thus less prone to the too much, too little shuffle. Only water them when the soil is dry down to about half way between your first and second knuckle. When it’s time, soak them thoroughly and evenly so that all the soil is saturated. Try to keep the main stalk sorta dry. Talk to someone else if you want to foliar feed—IMHO some girls like it and some don’t and like all women, they change their minds about it frequently. I can’t tell you about your lights. I only know about lumens and heat. But many here are expert with LEDs. I’d up-pot to 10 gallons, based on the veg time your photo shows. But don’t get trigger happy with watering. Make sure air is circulating well. I’m into defoliation, especially when there’s not a lot of space. But that’s just me. Then relax and trust the process. Warning: an actual grower might point out errors in what I’m saying…

PS: This is not my herb. I just think it’s super fucking sexy.

 

[Newbgrower1]

Is your tap water well water or city water? I had a few issues with my well water that looks very similar to this.I started using filtered water and added epsom salts every few waterings and havnt had a problem since. I honestly don’t know if it was the epsom or the water that helped. Figured I would share my experience.

 

[dime_slayer]

Don’t panic( @Captspaulding )
Seriously, you’re doing just fine. There’s very accomplished growers here, many of whom are incredibly generous with their guidance. I’m not one of them. But I am a halfway decent facilitator. IMHO, I think all you need to do is simplify. Others will know better what to do at this point in your cycle. But for your next one, don’t use Fox Farm or any other amended soil. Use ProMix—it’s perfectly aerated, already has perlite, it’s sterile and the pH is neutral. Ditch the Fox Farm and go for the always reliable, easy to use, been doing it for decades, highly soluble General Hydroponics Flora Series nutrient line: Gro, Bloom, and Micros. Buy a brand new plastic 32-gallon garbage can. Fill it a little over two-thirds up with whatever water comes out of your hose. That way you know you have about 20 gallons, so you can calculate the correct amount of fluid to add from the GH bottles. Use a measuring cup. Once you’ve added the nutes, stir the water for a bit. It’s best if it’s not super cold water. Then pH it with a well-maintained pen. I find smaller bottles of up and down easier to handle and thus less prone to the too much, too little shuffle. Only water them when the soil is dry down to about half way between your first and second knuckle. When it’s time, soak them thoroughly and evenly so that all the soil is saturated. Try to keep the main stalk sorta dry. Talk to someone else if you want to foliar feed—IMHO some girls like it and some don’t and like all women, they change their minds about it frequently. I can’t tell you about your lights. I only know about lumens and heat. But many here are expert with LEDs. I’d up-pot to 10 gallons, based on the veg time your photo shows. But don’t get trigger happy with watering. Make sure air is circulating well. I’m into defoliation, especially when there’s not a lot of space. But that’s just me. Then relax and trust the process. Warning: an actual grower might point out errors in what I’m saying…

View attachment 2282227
PS: This is not my herb. I just think it’s super fucking sexy.

Is there any particular reason you mix 20 gallons at a time? I've been mixing gallon by gallon and I could see where that would save time.
I've read a lot of mixed reviews on fox farms but having their soil locally sold me. I have seen pro mix mentioned a lot, it's worth a try I reckon.

I usually water based on weight

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

For example in soil it seems 50% believe the soil will adjust the ph of your water so no need to ph your water, then the other 50% say you must ph your water.

When using synthetic nutrients, pH is important. When using organic nutrients, it isn't.

 

[Stokes]

I think you’re simply running into calcium issues, very demanding in flower

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

Plants' needs are different during the vegetation stage than they are during the reproduction (flowering) stage. During flowering, there's less need for nitrogen and more need for phosphorous and potassium. I also include magnesium in that list for flowering. I add flowering nutrients (2-8-4) before I flip the lights and then watch the plants to see how well they adjust. I flip when I see they're doing well. I started adding nutrients before the flip when I noticed how plants weren't growing well after the flip.

 

[Natep]

It does seem easier as far as feeding it goes but it looks difficult making your own living soil. Getting the right mixture of ingredients and amounts seems subjective.

Buy build a soil 3.0 recipe and craft blend.

 

[SinCity]

Is there any particular reason you mix 20 gallons at a time? I've been mixing gallon by gallon and I could see where that would save time.
I've read a lot of mixed reviews on fox farms but having their soil locally sold me. I have seen pro mix mentioned a lot, it's worth a try I reckon.

I usually water based on weight

You have the luxury of really dialing in, but weight works too. I’m just a geek for precision—and a geek for not overwatering nor over feeding. But that’s just me. 20 gallons at a time is definitely a time saver. It lets you know everyone is getting the same amount of everything, which lets you tune into what each individual girl wants and what different ‘strains’ want. Call me a bitch (I am a girl and that word could sometimes be used to describe me lol), but so little is stable enough to warrant that name. Don’t get me started lol. Anyway, knowing everyone is getting the same thing let’s me see patterns and let’s me isolate factors so I can diagnose a room or a section or an individual. For the number of plants you have, and because you know to let the soil dry out before soaking them again , 20 gallons ensures you have plenty for everyone and ensures everyone gets watered at same time. Plus, and the geek in me shows itself again, I don’t know for sure that levels in the solution rise linearly. What if there’s some sneaky little exponential interaction lol? And finally, the trash can gives you the option of aeration and temperature control—and possible expansion!

 

[Beachbumm]

I did a slurry test last week and I still have it on my counter top. Sitting at 4.99ph right now. I got the soil from the top.
If I need to do another slurry test from deeper I can.

I take my test soil from a couple inches down.

I would get dolomite lime and mix it at a ratio of one level tablespoon dolomite to 1 gallon of water, and I would flush every plant until I got the pH above 6.0

I find 6.2 is the sweet spot, be careful not to raise pH too high

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

It does seem easier as far as feeding it goes but it looks difficult making your own living soil. Getting the right mixture of ingredients and amounts seems subjective.

It's not difficult. Microbes in the soil feed the plant. It's a mutualistic synergistic relationship. (See mycorrhiza.)

There's a difference between living soil and organic growing. I have been reusing Fox Farm soils for I don't know how many grows. I add various amendments each time I mix it. I just mixed some a few days ago and planted seeds in it yesterday.

 

[Natep]

I drag my water hose and water these. I only use a little rv filter that helps reduce the chlorine. No nutrients just water. I dry amend with build a soil craft blend once before veg once before flower.

 

[dime_slayer]

I take my test soil from a couple inches down.

I would get dolomite lime and mix it at a ratio of one level tablespoon dolomite to 1 gallon of water, and I would flush every plant until I got the pH above 6.0

I find 6.2 is the sweet spot, be careful not to raise pH too high

I got some dolomite lime pellets. I've ground it down to a powder 1tblsp per gallon till my run off got to 6.0ph.

 

[Beachbumm]

I got some dolomite lime pellets. I've ground it down to a powder 1tblsp per gallon till my run off got to 6.0ph.

As long as it was regular dolomite? I've never seen pellets but as long as it's regular dolomite that should stop the lockout