One_bell's first grow (F1 Epsilon auto, RDWC)

[One_Bell]

I have never heard of King Crab nor Myco Chum. However, looking them up, they both look like some good stuff. Skip the Orca if you're using the King Crab (i may start using the King Crab myself). The Myco Chum feeds the beneficial bacteria.

Be sure to follow the directions & not overdo it on the beneficial bacteria

I believe King Crab has a lot higher concentration of bacteria in comparison to Orca. I can only get 1ll bottles here and they are quit expensive (KC 120euro, Orca 80euro). I will look into it before ordering.

Day 16 (from sowing seeds, day 13 since sprouting):

The plants are almost 24 hours in there new RDWC home, but they seem to have got some damage adjusting to the new conditions:






Temperature has been steady 18C, EC1.0, TDS:520, 730PPM with an average pH of 6.1 the last 24 hours. So I might have damaged them a bit by too much nutrients in the reservoir? @THC_AeroGrower @FloridaMike what do you guys think?

Since I had some ACI Ionbeams S16 laying around (for future use of intracanopy lightning) I decided to give the insurancypolicy some lights as well:


The Ionbeams come with an UIS connectable controller, and features the same Samsung LM301H LED's as my Mars Hydro FC-4800 EVO. In the X-stream, on the highest level they measure 300PPFD on tray-level, despite only being 10 Watts per bar. More efficient to use this with the X-streamer for seedlings instead of burning through power by using the main light in this stage.

 

[Florida_Mike]

Looks kinda like they're not getting enuf water, maybe from some
minor root damage during transplant, and they can't keep up
with the light provided. BTW, remind me about your light setup.

Seems like I always end up with some leaf damage early on as well.
I believe mine is caused by too much water for a fledgling root
system. I usually feed continuously during lights on and nothing
during lights out. My big mama plant gets continuous feeding still,
but I cut my big table back to 15 on & 15 off.

These 6 seedlings (3-NL front row, 3 Hash Plant 2nd row) were sown
directly in 1.5" rockwool cubes (no pre-soak) on 12/25 and all were
above ground by the 28th, making them 15 days old today. The rest
are king Louis Xlll x Scott OG clones (with a couple runts)

Ima ask @Captspaulding to assist with this one.

 

[One_Bell]

Looks kinda like they're not getting enuf water, maybe from some
minor root damage during transplant, and they can't keep up
with the light provided. BTW, remind me about your light setup.

Seems like I always end up with some leaf damage early on as well.
I believe mine is caused by too much water for a fledgling root
system. I usually feed continuously during lights on and nothing
during lights out. My big mama plant gets continuous feeding still,
but I cut my big table back to 15 on & 15 off.

These 6 seedlings (3-NL front row, 3 Hash Plant 2nd row) were sown
directly in 1.5" rockwool cubes (no pre-soak) on 12/25 and all were
above ground by the 28th, making them 15 days old today. The rest
are king Louis Xlll x Scott OG clones (with a couple runts)

Ima ask @Captspaulding to assist with this one.

Wow, they do look a lit bigger then mine. Should I dim the light a bit? It now provides 400ppfd, 18/6 schedule since yesterday. I did notice a grow in roots, I will upload a picture of the roots later today when I am at the tent again.

 

[Florida_Mike]

I'm not sure about the ppfd, I don't use it, I go by what the plants are saying.
That being said, I lower light intensity when transplanting to 4" cubes until the
roots get re-established good.

As for nute burn, I wouldn't think that, at the levels you're running, but the
beauty of hydro is that if you think you messed up, you can always drain, flush
and reset. I did that yesterday bc I was getting some clawing started. I also
turned the lights down and raised mf fans some until I get this sorted out.

Also, I've never grown under LED'S b4, so this is new to me, with a big learning
curve. I'm just experimenting and trying to push the plants to see what they (& I)
can take. (this shite can be nerve racking at times)

 

[One_Bell]

I'm not sure about the ppfd, I don't use it, I go by what the plants are saying.
That being said, I lower light intensity when transplanting to 4" cubes until the
roots get re-established good.

As for nute burn, I wouldn't think that, at the levels you're running, but the
beauty of hydro is that if you think you messed up, you can always drain, flush
and reset. I did that yesterday bc I was getting some clawing started. I also
turned the lights down and raised mf fans some until I get this sorted out.

Also, I've never grown under LED'S b4, so this is new to me, with a big learning
curve. I'm just experimenting and trying to push the plants to see what they (& I)
can take. (this shite can be nerve racking at times)

I turned down the light a bit, and currently they are resting for 6 hours. However, the one on the left that was the biggest one of the two does not look very happy and healthy at the moment:



What can or should I do? Temperature has been steady at 18C, EC1.1, TDS:520, 730PPM with an average pH of 6.1 the last 24 hours.

I will handwater the one on the left a bit around the soil plug, see if that makes a difference.

 

[THC_AeroGrower]

It sounds like you're dealing with a common issue when transitioning plants from an aero systems to RDWC systems. The drooping is likely a result of the drastic environmental change for the roots. Aero-grown roots are accustomed to very high oxygen levels and minimal nutrient exposure, so submerging them in even well-aerated water creates a bit of a shock.

Here are a few options to consider to help your plants adjust:

1. Increase Oxygen Levels: While your system is aerated, you might want to ensure your air pump and air stones are providing maximum dissolved oxygen in the water. This will help mimic the high oxygen environment the roots were used to. Under-oxygination is the number one problem I see in DWC setups
2. Lower the Water Level: If possible, adjust the water level in your RDWC system so only the bottom portion of the root mass is submerged. This encourages the development of new water-adapted roots while still allowing the upper roots to access high oxygen levels in the airspace.
3. Reduce Nutrient Strength: Your EC of 1.1 is within a reasonable range, but you might consider dropping it slightly (say 0.8-1.0 EC) for the first few days. Aero-grown roots are very sensitive to nutrients, and even modest levels like you've got can be overwhelming.
4. Check the pH: Your pH of 6.1 is at the higher end of the acceptable range for hydroponics. Dropping it slightly to 5.8-6.0 should help balance nutrient uptake towards veg nutes.
5. Limit Stressors: Minimize other environmental stresses, such as intense light or drastic temperature changes, during this adjustment period. Steady temperatures (as you're maintaining at 18°C) are key.
6. Patience and Monitoring: It’s normal for plants to droop a bit during this transition, but if you see signs of recovery within a few days, like new root growth or perkier leaves, you’re fine. If not, re-evaluate and consider further adjustments.

The key is helping the plant transition from "aero-mode" to "DWC-mode" by gradually acclimating the roots to their new environment. As FloridaMike suggested, there maybe some issues getting the nutrients due to minor damage during transplant as well. it's almost impossible to avoid some root damage when transferring out of aero.

 

[One_Bell]

Thanks @THC_AeroGrower, I now understand more of this from a transition point of view. When filling up the system I left 2"/6cm of air between the bottom of the netpot and the waterlevel. If they still look like this tomorrow I will add an extra source of bubbles to both plantpots. I am closely monitoring the pH, and I found out it has more swings then the X-streamer, despite three times the water volume.

Also, I made a new thread about quiet air and waterpumps, which one would you recommend? https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/quiet-air-and-waterpump-recommendations.166246/

 

[THC_AeroGrower]

Thanks @THC_AeroGrower, I now understand more of this from a transition point of view. When filling up the system I left 2"/6cm of air between the bottom of the netpot and the waterlevel. If they still look like this tomorrow I will add an extra source of bubbles to both plantpots. I am closely monitoring the pH, and I found out it has more swings then the X-streamer, despite three times the water volume.

Also, I made a new thread about quiet air and waterpumps, which one would you recommend? https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/quiet-air-and-waterpump-recommendations.166246/

I'm probably not the one to ask on this My water pump is a 12v inline pump that sounds like a Buzz Saw just kicked on. I built a baffle box to muffle the noise. and my air pump is a typical 25w unit from Vivosun, not particularly loud but it vibrates the heck out of whatever surface it's sitting on so a nice rubber mat helped there.

I'll go take a look at that thread and if I have anything worth adding, I will post it there.

 

[One_Bell]

Day 17 (from sowing seeds, day 14 since sprouting):

Unfortunately the health of the plants has not really improved much:



Besides the transplant-shock, I think I probably shocked them some more with lower daytime temps they where used to and not enough airation around the roots.

The airpump supplied with the RDWC set only can drive two airlines with 7,6 liter per minute in total. So 3,6 liter per airstone, which is not enough I think. I also had the Hailea V20 ( which can do 20 liter per minute in total) laying around but thought it was way to loud. When I tested it I did not hook up any airlines. Low and behold, I thought that the sound was already undoable but I wanted to try it anyway. Turned out the v20 is dead quiet and I can't really hear it anymore.
Still there was an awfull sound coming from the waterpump. I tried to reconnect it but the sound stayed way to loud. I took the Hailea, that was supplied with the RDWC kit, and sawed off the venturi outlet so I could finally use the pump with the chiller. I made two platforms out of foam to support the airpump and chiller.
The Alien waterpump was doing 950l an hour, close to limit of the chiller. The Hailea only does 650l an hour which sits in between the range of what the chiller accepts, and I do have the feeling this works better.

It seems the Alien airpump did not properly connected to the pipe in the reservoir causing a hell of lot of noise, when replacing it with the Hailea, the sound went away. After that I trien the Alien pump in a bucket, it only did make a little more sound then the Hailea, which is understandable if you take a look at the hourly flowrate (950 vs 650l an hour). I also compared both outlets of the pump (on the side that connects to the piping) but it looked and measured the same to me. Maybe the higher flowrate caused the noise issue, I don't know...

So, my flowrate did back down a bit but should still be efficient. The system volume is currently 30 liter, with a capacity of 650l pump, the water changes 21,67 times an hour. I did read somewhere you need atleast 9 times for RDWC, so this should be good. Best part of this day was getting rid off the sound, I can finally sleep again lol. If now only the two ladies in the buckets would start being alive again haha.

 

[One_Bell]

@THC_AeroGrower how much days does it normally take for transplanted plants to get used to their new homes? Today will be the third day of RDWC. They seem still alive:



I still have the three other plants, they are alive and well in the X-stream propegator.



I don't know how long I should give the two in the RDWC a chance, or should I transplant two others from the X-stream propegator?

 

[One_Bell]

Just took some measurements and it seems the plants drink some water, since EC rose to 1.2, TDS from 560 (yesterday) to 580, and PPM from 780 (yesterday) to 820. So the concentration is going up. Should I take some nutrientwater out and replace it with RO water pH'ed to 5.8pH?

I also took a picture of the roots, they grew quite a bit since wednesday. Although the old port still looks a bit brownnish, but they new part looks healthy to me and they start growing sideways as well:




(the picture that does not show, is clickable however)

 

[One_Bell]

Day 19 (from sowing seeds, day 16 since sprouting and 4 days after transplantingfrom aero to rdwc):

The ladies clearly took a beating but I do show so some new healthy grow on top:

This is the one on the left:

I took about 10 liters of nutrien solution out of the reservoir yesterday () and replaced it with 8 liters of RO water pH'ed to 5,8) and the values went down to 440 TDS, 610 PPM, and 0,9 EC. Todays measurements: 460 TDS, 640PPM and still 0.9 EC.

So it seems they did drink some water?

Average watertemp is 18C and average daytime temp is 22C, night time temp is 18-19C.

Also some more root-development has shown:

Left one:

Right one:

To give them some rest they had 6 hours off light this night, might continue with 18/6 schedule.

I probably stunted the plants quite a bit after the transplant (temperature and humidity swings, not enough air pushed in the buckets, to much nutrients and a too high water level).

Will these plants survive and still provide a good harvest, or are they stunted and doomed?

I still have 3 others in the X-stream, they leaves look good but the roots are not used to RDWC and the stems are not as thick as the ones in the RDWC:

What to do now? I think I keep the currents ones (mainly because stem- and rootdevelopment) instead of trying to transplant again.

@FloridaMike what do you think would be wise to do?

Also, am I slowly entering the veg state for this autoflower, it so far has developped sets of 5-finger leaves.

 

[Florida_Mike]

Day 19 (from sowing seeds, day 16 since sprouting and 4 days after transplantingfrom aero to rdwc):

The ladies clearly took a beating but I do so some new healthy grow on top:
View attachment 2359084
View attachment 2359085

This is the one on the left:

View attachment 2359087

View attachment 2359086

I took about 10 liters of nutrien solution out of the reservoir yesterday () and replaced it with 8 liters of RO water pH'ed to 5,8) and the values went down to 440 TDS, 610 PPM, and 0,9 EC. Todays measurements: 460 TDS, 640PPM and still 0.9 EC. Average watertemp is 18C and average daytime temp is 22C, night time temp is 18-19C.

Also some more root-development has shown:

Left one:
View attachment 2359090

Right one:
View attachment 2359089

To give them some rest they had 6 hours off light this night, might continue with 18/6 schedule.

I probably stunted the plants quite a bit after the transplant (temperature and humidity swings, not air pushed in the buckets, to much nutrients and a too high water level).

Will these plants survive and still provide a good harvest, or are they stunted and doomed?

I still have 3 others in the X-stream, they leaves look good but the roots are not used to RDWC and the stems are not as thick as the ones in the RDWC:
View attachment 2359093

What to do now? I think I keep the currents ones (mainly because stem- and rootdevelopment) instead of trying to transplant again.

@FloridaMike what do you think would be wise to do?

Also, am I slowly entering the veg state for this autoflower, it so far has developped sets of 5-finger leaves.

Hahaha, I don't think I've ever been accused of doing "wise" b4...
I think you're going to start seeing more new growth as more
happy roots appear. Pretty soon the roots should be doubling
every day, that's when you get to see why RDWC kicks ass.

All that being said, I'd say to keep doing what you're doing; it
seems you've got things turned around. Betty Lou was a stunted
little runt and just look at her now!

It wouldn't hurt to keep the other's alive for some insurance if
you have room too.

 

[One_Bell]

@FloridaMike Betty Lou looks massive lol And thank you again for your advice. It is great to get some pointers while I struggled to keep them alive.

Do you think my plants are in veg now?

Today I got my Mars Hydro Adlight Blue delivered which can be used in veg:

mars-hydro.com%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F7580a768264dfedaa45d4ba1d2c7f068%2F5%2F-%2F5-2025-new-adlite-supplement-led-blue-440nm-spectrum_2.jpg&hash=989aa7080537e8f1a44e40eb77697400" />

With this Blue Adlight I got the set complete and can use the other 3 Adlights during flower:

mars-hydro.com%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F7580a768264dfedaa45d4ba1d2c7f068%2F1%2F0%2F10-2025-new-adlite-supplement-led-recommended-use-time_4.jpg&hash=9c37058694be94f0c542f06a6bbb59f4" />

It is a bit strange, when I bought the UV Adlight, Blue wasn't even announced yet, and Mars Hydro adviced to use the UV Adlight during veg for max 5 min. an hour on 20/4.

I hope the Blue Adlight will help my plants recover in veg.

 

[One_Bell]

Day 20 (from sowing seeds, day 17 since sprouting and 5 days after transplantingfrom aero to rdwc):

The left one:

The right one:

Since I suspect to are vegging now, so I went ahead and installed the Adlight Blue:

This first day only for 12 hours, from tomorrow on together with the mainlight on 18/6.

 

[One_Bell]

The EC value went up again so I swapped out 5 liter of nutrient solution for 5 liter of pH'ed 5,8 RO water, just like I did two days ago. (The total volume of the RDWC system is 30 Liters give or take).
Since the EC rose to 1.0 (480 TDS and 670PPM) I lowered it down to TDS 400 , PPM 560 and EC of 0.8. Hopefully they get some more water this way.

 

[One_Bell]

Day 21 (from sowing seeds, day 18 since sprouting and 6 days after transplantingfrom aero to rdwc):

Exactly three weeks underway now and already learned a lot. If I look back at last week I think from the transplant to the RDWC system, the nutrient solution was way to high. It is already less for Autoflowers, but also for RDWC (since the roots always dangle in the solution it is easy to burn the pant) and I did not really take that into account.

400-500PPM should be enough for veg and 700-800 for flower. That is why I took 5 liters out of the system again and replaced it with pH'ed RO water. Yesterday PPM was 600 so I decided to lower it to 500PPM at an EC of 0.7. Let's see how the ladies respond.

Root are getting bigger everyday now and the plants them self started to get more bushy. That is why I decided to top them. Hopefully this creates more budsites and does not stunt the plant to much (after burning of overfeeding). I hope the RDWC system can get them to grow more to make up for it, in companion with the Adlite Blue.

I did make some pictures before and after the haircut:

Before:

After:

And the two tops I took off:

Let's see how it goes the upcoming days. I do not have the intend to top them again, but might try some LST and scrogging.

 

[Growleegrows]

Looking good. Just took my tops off my ladies as well!

 

[One_Bell]

Looking good. Just took my tops off my ladies as well!

Thanks and cool to hear you topped them also. Are they autoflowers? And which day you at since sprouting?

 

[Growleegrows]

Thanks and cool to hear you topped them also. Are they autoflowers? And which day you at since sprouting?

they are photopeiriod and January 3 is when they sprouted out.