Can I wait to repot? / Can I tell if it's an auto or fem?

[IAlreadyKnow]

(I apologize in advance for the long post, but most people need all the info about ur setup to help out)

Hi everyone, I'm not new to the community, but I just created an account. I wasn't going to, but I recently started growing with my cousin a few days ago and I want to hear other peoples opinion.

The first possible problem is with the seeds, my cousin got them from a "good" friend apparently, but their all mixed up, so we don't know which is which. (The guy said they are ALL feminized and told us the strains)(it's about 5 to 7 different ones) That's a big problem because we won't know until flower, but even then it will be a give or take since we aren't experts at identifying the strains.

We alternate caring for it because of our work schedules, but he mostly let me take over for the germinating stage. I can't speak for him. but I have done extensive research into all stages, their conditions, humidity, vpd, temps, possible issues, and etc. mostly because I don't like to go into things blind and like to have a good amount of knowledge before jumping in.

We decided to do a fully organic grow, and currently is going good, I think... I decided to germ straight into the soil and I know you always do more than one incase of something going wrong or incase one of them is weaker, but we picked the "worst" looking seed (it was a light green and a lot of forums and people say the darkest have more success) we just did one to see if anything would actually happen, I heard around and asked some people that said it takes between 3-10 days, but around day 3 we got impatient and I pushed the soil over just a tad to see if anything was happening, and sure enough it was a tiny taproot so we got excited and literally a few hours later it was already above the soil. (The seedling is currently in happy frog)

Now, we flash forward to today only 6 days later! I was already starting to question if it was an auto or not because of how fast it was progressing day after day, but now I really am unsure.

Currently we keep the conditions between 71-80F with 74-84% humid and I tell him to keep the VPD between 56-78, but when I'm watching over, then I keep it higher than the current temp (referring to humidity for lower vpd)

We keep the light on 24/0 right now, and it started at 18" away from the light, but I had to adjust once it grew and it's still at that height until it grows more. (light only at 20%)
Right now it is already developing it's second set of true leaves and more growth already starting in the middle. (which is why I believe it might be an auto)

- the stem is pretty sturdy and slightly amber brown

I wasn't going to repot until the 2nd week (unless advised otherwise) but a problem has come up with the roots...They are already showing up to the edge of the cup and one is even poking out the drain hole! (They are still developing and are white with the root fibers) I can see this because I planted in a clear 16oz cup, but I did provide shade since I heard you shouldn't expose the roots to light. I also heard this isn't a bad thing and it will lead to "air pruning" which will ultimately help the root system grow, but I'm worried it will get out of hand the more the days progress and we might need to repot sooner than I wanted/expected.

I also wanted to know if you can really start veg as soon as you want to. I heard a bit of mixed opinions on it about it effecting different things.
Additionally, I also wanted to ask about fans, I know people run them upon popping up, but can I hold off for 4 more days since the stem is already sturdy?

Sorry for all the questions, but I had a hard time finding a direct answer anywhere else.

Any feedback and knowledge is very much appreciated! Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

 

[Phyto]

There's no real way to tell if it's an auto or a photo in veg. If one starts to bud after 3-6 weeks under a light period above 14 hours, then it's an auto. You can probably drop the light to 20/4. The fan can wait a few days. When you get 4-6 nodes, it's normally about time to transplant. It's not going to get rootbound in 2 weeks. Not sure what you mean by " if you can really start veg as soon as you want to". Once it breaks ground it's in veg, right up until it goes into flower. Next time wrap a cover around the clear cup. You don't need "air pruning" on a seedling. You may or may not be able to tell what strain it is even after flowing. In veg, unless it has a distinctive characteristics, like duck foot or somerthing similar, you're not going to be able to identify strain. You might be able to tell mostly sativa or mostly indica, and tie that back to one of your strains, depending on the strains yo have.

 

[IAlreadyKnow]

There's no real way to tell if it's an auto or a photo in veg. If one starts to bud after 3-6 weeks under a light period above 14 hours, then it's an auto. You can probably drop the light to 20/4. The fan can wait a few days. When you get 4-6 nodes, it's normally about time to transplant. It's not going to get rootbound in 2 weeks. Not sure what you mean by " if you can really start veg as soon as you want to". Once it breaks ground it's in veg, right up until it goes into flower. Next time wrap a cover around the clear cup. You don't need "air pruning" on a seedling.

Oh wow so we pretty much just have to wait and see. That definitely sucks. Yeah, I know. I didn't want us to transplant so early, but to clear it up since I did bounce around on topics. It is in a clear cup and I already have half a foam cup covering the bottom, but the issue it that one root is peaking out the drain hole already.

I only mentioned "air pruning" because since it's coming out, the root is already hitting the air which I read is what causes the process of "air pruning".

I'm not too sure about my views on the veg stage though, I read a HUGE thread about people explaining when the veg truly starts. Some were saying it actually starts after it gets 4-6 nodes, but others said the same and agreed that it started right after it breaks soil. I feel it depends more on the plant and which light cycle It likes more. To better ask my question, I really was asking when would be best to switch to 18/6? If I switch to 20/4 how long would I keep that cycle, all the way till pre-flower/flower stage?

I really appreciate your reply man!

 

[Galgrows]

My thoughts.......veg. stage begins at 2wks lasts until preflower. 18/6 is how i veg photos and grow my auto flowers till my photos are big enough for flipping to 12/12 to begin pre flower stage and show sex for photos. If your seeds don't show preflower by 60days it's not a auto flower.

 

[Phyto]

I'm not too sure about my views on the veg stage though, I read a HUGE thread about people explaining when the veg truly starts. Some were saying it actually starts after it gets 4-6 nodes, but others said the same and agreed that it started right after it breaks soil. I feel it depends more on the plant and which light cycle It likes more. To better ask my question, I really was asking when would be best to switch to 18/6? If I switch to 20/4 how long would I keep that cycle, all the way till pre-flower/flower stage?

I really appreciate your reply man!

It really doesn't matter when anyone says veg starts, the light requirements are the same . You can run 24/0, 20/4, or 16/8, during the entire time from when the seedling breaks ground until you flip to 12/12, but you can play with distance from the plant and intensity. Unlike some other plants, cannabis does not require a rest period (darkness), but there is a point of diminishing return on the plants ability to absorb light, so most people run 20/4 or 16/8, my last grow was 19/5, just because I set the timer wrong. whichever you choose, you can run it the entire time, no need to monkey with it until you flip.

 

[IAlreadyKnow]

My thoughts.......veg. stage begins at 2wks lasts until preflower. 18/6 is how i veg photos and grow my auto flowers till my photos are big enough for flipping to 12/12 to begin pre flower stage and show sex for photos. If your seeds don't show preflower by 60days it's not a auto flower.

Yeah, that's definitely the widely agreed time frame, but because of the rate it's growing I might start veg once the 3rd node/set of true leaves come in. As of this morning, my cousin showed my a pic and the second pair has already fully "emerged" you could say, and the 3rd pair is already starting to grow.

Ohhh, okay, that's definitely a good rule of thumb to know. But, I am a little worried if it is an auto because we're treating it as a reg fem seed. The biggest thing I hear with autos is that you want to have the LEAST amount of transfers so it won't stunt the growth, and most tell you to plant in the final pot on initial 'planting' which we didn't do. I don't want to transfer at 2 weeks to 1gal then we find out it's really an auto and have to transfer a third time.

Also what's your view about the roots starting to peak out the bottom? Hypothetically, if they continue to grow out the drain holes will "air pruning" naturally take care of the issue for me? And should I be okay waiting a second week for transplant?

 

[IAlreadyKnow]

It really doesn't matter when anyone says veg starts, the light requirements are the same . You can run 24/0, 20/4, or 16/8, during the entire time from when the seedling breaks ground until you flip to 12/12, but you can play with distance from the plant and intensity. Unlike some other plants, cannabis does not require a rest period (darkness), but there is a point of diminishing return on the plants ability to absorb light, so most people run 20/4 or 16/8, my last grow was 19/5, just because I set the timer wrong. whichever you choose, you can run it the entire time, no need to monkey with it until you flip.

Ahh, okay, I see. Ha well you definitely have some controversial topics because I've always heard that 24/0 light is crucial as soon as they pop soil and no light during germ, but after hearing different people and from you, I see that its more about your preferences/what currently works for you and your plants, and less about what's "right" for your plant. ( we actually did it different and kept the light on as soon as we planted up until now and it's doing better than I expected, so whatever works)

Yeah, I heard that as well "Your plant can only photosynthesis so much" but they also said rest could be beneficial for nice root growth. not sure your experience with that? have you actually seen a difference in roots that get more dark periods vs. ones that don't.

I might switch to 20/4 or 18/6 today to see how that works out for the girl (or auto). How much should the temp and humidity drop during dark hours? Our normal day temps (in the tent) are between 72-78 degrees and night 66-71.

I'm sorry if I'm bombarding you a bit, but I really appreciate your help!

 

[Phyto]

Either 20/4, or 18/6 are pretty much the norms. If I was growing autos. then I'd definitely go at least 20/4, and have used 24/0, since they have such a short veg period that you want all the growth you can get before they flower. People vastly overthink cannabis growing, I've grown at 7000 feet elevation (obviously not optimum conditions) where there was 17% humidity, and temperature swings of 65 degrees (30 degrees at night, 95 in the daytime), the plants still grew. Honestly, look at cannabis grown outdoors, huge temp and humidity swings not only from day to night, but sometimes hour by hour. Don't get too wrapped up in trying to create "perfect" conditions, just stay "in the ballpark" it's a flipping weed!!!

 

[IAlreadyKnow]

Either 20/4, or 18/6 are pretty much the norms. If I was growing autos. then I'd definitely go at least 20/4, and have used 24/0, since they have such a short veg period that you want all the growth you can get before they flower. People vastly overthink cannabis growing, I've grown at 7000 feet elevation (obviously not optimum conditions) where there was 17% humidity, and temperature swings of 65 degrees (30 degrees at night, 95 in the daytime), the plants still grew. Honestly, look at cannabis grown outdoors, huge temp and humidity swings not only from day to night, but sometimes hour by hour. Don't get too wrapped up in trying to create "perfect" conditions, just stay "in the ballpark" it's a flipping weed!!!

Ohh, okay. I definitely need to look into autos a little more just incase it is. Yes, I completely agree, a while ago I saw someone asking if it was okay that they accidentally left the light on 24/0 for their seedling and it was pretty funny.

Wow really! that's definitely an amazing achievement especially with the drastic changes. I think it also might heavily depend on the strain your growing, some strains thrive in high temp, low humid or high humid and high temp, or it can be the complete opposite.

Yeah, I honestly feel there isn't really "perfect" conditions, but more about what your plant likes.

I do forget sometimes that it is a weed and it's honestly hard to "kill" aside from other forces like pests, but my only concern now is about the roots. Will they take care of themselves and not grow too much out the drain holes?

 

[Phyto]

Ohh, okay. I definitely need to look into autos a little more just incase it is. Yes, I completely agree, a while ago I saw someone asking if it was okay that they accidentally left the light on 24/0 for their seedling and it was pretty funny.

Wow really! that's definitely an amazing achievement especially with the drastic changes. I think it also might heavily depend on the strain your growing, some strains thrive in high temp, low humid or high humid and high temp, or it can be the complete opposite.

Yeah, I honestly feel there isn't really "perfect" conditions, but more about what your plant likes.

I do forget sometimes that it is a weed and it's honestly hard to "kill" aside from other forces like pests, but my only concern now is about the roots. Will they take care of themselves and not grow too much out the drain holes?

Even if the roots grow out the drain holes, it's not a big deal if you lose a few rootlets in the transplant, they rebound quickly. With photos under lights, you control how long they veg, and how big they get. The size difference between growing autos under 20/4 or 18/6 is pretty small, probably not enough to justify the added cost of electricity for the extra 4 hours. That said I'm in Northern Ca. and we have some of the highest electricity rates in the country. Mine are adjusted so that I pay the lower night time rates. My 7000 ft grow was mexican ragweed seed, couldn't even tell you what strain, back then, there were only about a dozen strains. As you get more grows under your belt, you'll learn to "read" the plants, that's the hardest part of the learning curve.

 

[IAlreadyKnow]

Even if the roots grow out the drain holes, it's not a big deal if you lose a few rootlets in the transplant, they rebound quickly. With photos under lights, you control how long they veg, and how big they get. The size difference between growing autos under 20/4 or 18/6 is pretty small, probably not enough to justify the added cost of electricity for the extra 4 hours. That said I'm in Northern Ca. and we have some of the highest electricity rates in the country. Mine are adjusted so that I pay the lower night time rates. My 7000 ft grow was mexican ragweed seed, couldn't even tell you what strain, back then, there were only about a dozen strains. As you get more grows under your belt, you'll learn to "read" the plants, that's the hardest part of the learning curve.

My bad for the late response, I had some stuff come up, but really? good to know we don't have to stress if that happens. Oh man that sucks, I heard it's around 30c per kWh which is wild. (apparently my cousin's friend got the seeds from out there, but I'm not sure how truthful he is) Pretty nice strategy though, beating the system a bit. Most people don't actually take the time to look into the peak hours in their area.

Wow, that a pretty huge grow! Yeah, I understand that as well. "With time comes wisdom" The more time we spend to learn the plants, then the better grower we can be, harvest after harvest.

What I do occasionally, which I would recommend to others getting into the hobby, is to observe other peoples issues they have and try to see if you can guess what it is yourself before you read the rest of the forum or thread. Might not work for everyone, but it is very crucial to learn about certain signs so they don't develop too much and mess up your flower or veg stage.

 

[IAlreadyKnow]

@Phyto I wanted to give a bit of an update on how she's doing so far and also to make sure some yellowing that's happening is totally normal. (Which I think so)

She's currently 2.5 weeks old out of soil (including germ is 3 weeks)

The pics are taken 2 days after transplant into a 5 Gal. I wish I had a pic before the switch because all her new foliage was compact on top of each other, but today she grew up an inch and the leafs aren't touching anymore just the 2nd day!

Night Temps 68-73 Day Temps 74-77
Humidity 76-78 (Vpd 0.8 - 0.65) with inline every 2 min.

Humidifier: yes
I'm also adding the fans today in an hour.

When I was trying to coach my cousin to do the transplant, I got him to mix about 20% coco, 15% perlite, 20% FFOF, 45% FFHF, and told him to sprinkle some mykos in the hole as well. That's a rough estimate, but I did want to make sure there was adequate airflow and drainage since I heard FFOF can be a bit hot with some batches.

Now to the problem, I have yellowing on the first set of True leaves which was already starting 3 days before transplant and it was at the same time the cotyledons were yellowing, but the "cotyl" completely yellowed the first day after transplant so right before lights out I pinched them off, and like said before, the pictures are 2 days after transplant so she definitely handled it well and the true leaves haven't progressed with their yellowing yet either.

I pretty much just brushed it off as the plant getting more hungry and also wanting a transplant since the foliage was wayy over the cup, but I've been a little concerned because if you look closely at the new foliage, the tips are bright green. (Doesn't show the best on my camera, but you can still see a little) my mind is set on the possibility it's the leaves getting bigger and the new growth hasn't hit the light yet, but it still hasn't gone away and it's been like that after the first week. Just want to make sure that it isn't going to turn yellow down the road.

Let me know your thoughts, besides the small issues she's been growing great and relatively quick!

 

[Phyto]

@Phyto I wanted to give a bit of an update on how she's doing so far and also to make sure some yellowing that's happening is totally normal. (Which I think so)

She's currently 2.5 weeks old out of soil (including germ is 3 weeks)

The pics are taken 2 days after transplant into a 5 Gal. I wish I had a pic before the switch because all her new foliage was compact on top of each other, but today she grew up an inch and the leafs aren't touching anymore just the 2nd day!

Night Temps 68-73 Day Temps 74-77
Humidity 76-78 (Vpd 0.8 - 0.65) with inline every 2 min.

Humidifier: yes
I'm also adding the fans today in an hour.

When I was trying to coach my cousin to do the transplant, I got him to mix about 20% coco, 15% perlite, 20% FFOF, 45% FFHF, and told him to sprinkle some mykos in the hole as well. That's a rough estimate, but I did want to make sure there was adequate airflow and drainage since I heard FFOF can be a bit hot with some batches.

Now to the problem, I have yellowing on the first set of True leaves which was already starting 3 days before transplant and it was at the same time the cotyledons were yellowing, but the "cotyl" completely yellowed the first day after transplant so right before lights out I pinched them off, and like said before, the pictures are 2 days after transplant so she definitely handled it well and the true leaves haven't progressed with their yellowing yet either.

I pretty much just brushed it off as the plant getting more hungry and also wanting a transplant since the foliage was wayy over the cup, but I've been a little concerned because if you look closely at the new foliage, the tips are bright green. (Doesn't show the best on my camera, but you can still see a little) my mind is set on the possibility it's the leaves getting bigger and the new growth hasn't hit the light yet, but it still hasn't gone away and it's been like that after the first week. Just want to make sure that it isn't going to turn yellow down the road.

Let me know your thoughts, besides the small issues she's been growing great and relatively quick!View attachment 2385250View attachment 2385253View attachment 2385251Looks good,I wouldn't worry about that one leafView attachment 2385252

The new growth looks great, I wouldn't worry about the two lower leaves.

 

[IAlreadyKnow]

Okay, that's definitely reassuring to hear! Thanks, but should I not worry about the bright green tips?

Also, when is a good time to start spraying with neem oil?

And when can I start topping and low stress training? I woukd assume the training is fine now, but I'm not sure about the topping.

 

[Phyto]

Okay, that's definitely reassuring to hear! Thanks, but should I not worry about the bright green tips?

Also, when is a good time to start spraying with neem oil?

And when can I start topping and low stress training? I woukd assume the training is fine now, but I'm not sure about the topping.

You could start topping/training any time now. I try not to use anything on the plants unless I confirm there are bugs. Neem will burn leaves if not used correctly, and never use neem once you have buds.

 

[IAlreadyKnow]

Oh okay, sounds good. I'll get some ties tomorrow to start LST

Oh wow, really? I heard it's good to use during the veg stage once every 1-2weeks as a preventative because once you get them they can be one hell of a battle if not caught early.

Yeah, even the bottle says only use during lights off because of the risk of burning, but I probably will wait till atleast week 2 or 3 of veg till I use it, just to lessen how long I'm actually using it.

Thank you again for the advice, I just want to make sure she stays happy and keeps growing.