First Autoflower attempt went from happy to deaths door in just a week. Looking for guidance as IDK what caused such a dramatic change.

[neneboob]

I am growing with a friend who tends to the plants daily. 1/21 is the first day we saw leaves. This is our first auto and I don't think he was prepared for how dramatic the water uptake would increase, and how quickly. On 2/18 she looked great, and we gave her the fox farm trio nuts at 1/2 strength along with calmag to prep for flowering. When I inspected it on 2/23 and saw it was wilted, and had dry crackling leaves on the bottom layer. He said he had been watering it, but was not saturating the whole grow medium. From that I had assumed it was just simply underwatered. He said that she had looked fine until around 2/21 which I don't have pictures from. I would have thought we could have corrected a few days of underwatering with simply watering her, but it appears to only be getting worse from here.
I'm really just looking to understand what occurred here to avoid it with our new seedlings as this one was really just supposed to be our learning experience with autos.
Running 1 ful spec LED 100w light ~400-600ppfd at the time this happened.
RH 40-50% temp 70-82F
Planted in promix, and ~30% perlite, and Fox farm 1/2 doses of "big bloom" up until we gave it everything on 2/18

Plant on 2/18:

Plant on 2-23

and now today 2-25:

 

[orggrwr]

Looks overwatered to me. Watering can be the hardest thing for new growers to get right. With soil you want to water slowly and make sure the entire pot is moist then wait for a good dry back before Watering again. Best way to judge when is going by the weight of the pot. Only water again when picking it up feels almost like picking up Styrofoam. It can take several days or weeks depending on size of plants, size of pot,environment, etc. It takes some practice and trial and error but you'll get the hang of it . When plants are over watered the roots can't access the oxygen they need which causes the droops. Good Luck, you got this

 

[neneboob]

Looks overwatered to me. Watering can be the hardest thing for new growers to get right. With soil you want to water slowly and make sure the entire pot is moist then wait for a good dry back before Watering again. Best way to judge when is going by the weight of the pot. Only water again when picking it up feels almost like picking up Styrofoam. It can take several days or weeks depending on size of plants, size of pot,environment, etc. It takes some practice and trial and error but you'll get the hang of it . When plants are over watered the roots can't access the oxygen they need which causes the droops. Good Luck, you got this

Understood thank you. My only question to you is most of the research I've done said if there's super dry/dead leaves that's an indication of underwatering, and not overwatering. So even with the crackling bottom layer of leaves you still fully believe overwatering could be the cause? I am happy to trust you, or anyone more experienced, but really REALLY just wanna do my best to make sure I know what happened here as I've got 4 more on the way. Thank you again.

 

[ArtfulCodger]

My guess is that it's over-lit (edge curl, taco-ing) and under-fed (various leaf symptoms, yellowing in the lowers). I've never run Promix, so I won't speculate about watering. As I understand it, Promix has no nutrient content. Big Bloom has a little nitrogen in it, but what it has takes a bit to become plant-available. In the Fox Farm trio, Tiger Bloom is the component that has the micronutrients. I start a balanced nute program, including micronutes, as soon as I see true leaves.

 

[Oldchucky]

If it was underwatered you would have seen improvement real quick by watering! If it’s overwatered, you made the problem worse by watering and it takes a lot longer to correct! You need to know what’s going on down in that root zone, water wise! Pot plants, hate wet feet! Getting a complete dry back is very important! Now that it’s circling the drain it’s not transpiring, so evaporation is about the only way that pot Will dry out! That can take a long time! If the problem even is related to watering! Good luck!

 

[HerbalEdu]

underwatering and overwatering could result in rather the same symptoms

in the end, only you the grower can figure out if it's underwatering or overwatering by weighting the pots

it's a good habit to get used to the weight of the pot before first watering and after watering where you usually should moist the whole medium till a little run off.

overwatering isn't necessarely watering with too much water, that's fine if you let it dry enough afterward, it could be watering too often with small amount of water maintening the soil permanently too moist.

roots don't like either permanently too dry or too wet medium , they need an alternance of both, proper wet dry cycle for the roots are key

 

[neneboob]

If it was underwatered you would have seen improvement real quick by watering! If it’s overwatered, you made the problem worse by watering and it takes a lot longer to correct! You need to know what’s going on down in that root zone, water wise! Pot plants, hate wet feet! Getting a complete dry back is very important! Now that it’s circling the drain it’s not transpiring, so evaporation is about the only way that pot Will dry out! That can take a long time! If the problem even is related to watering! Good luck!

Yeah when it was looking rough on 2/23 I made sure we saturated the medium completely, and instructed the caretaker to not water again until it was dry again before another water, and to saturate it again (measuring by poking your finger down a bit and seeing how much moisture is present).

With how bad the reaction is I'm really wondering if it was just the poor watering schedule which was basically just small frequent waterings instead of spaced out big soaks. Just like you said if it was underwatered for a few days that saturation should have picked it back up I would think?

 

[SirGrowsAlot]

I am growing with a friend who tends to the plants daily. 1/21 is the first day we saw leaves. This is our first auto and I don't think he was prepared for how dramatic the water uptake would increase, and how quickly. On 2/18 she looked great, and we gave her the fox farm trio nuts at 1/2 strength along with calmag to prep for flowering. When I inspected it on 2/23 and saw it was wilted, and had dry crackling leaves on the bottom layer. He said he had been watering it, but was not saturating the whole grow medium. From that I had assumed it was just simply underwatered. He said that she had looked fine until around 2/21 which I don't have pictures from. I would have thought we could have corrected a few days of underwatering with simply watering her, but it appears to only be getting worse from here.
I'm really just looking to understand what occurred here to avoid it with our new seedlings as this one was really just supposed to be our learning experience with autos.
Running 1 ful spec LED 100w light ~400-600ppfd at the time this happened.
RH 40-50% temp 70-82F
Planted in promix, and ~30% perlite, and Fox farm 1/2 doses of "big bloom" up until we gave it everything on 2/18

Plant on 2/18:
View attachment 2384636



Plant on 2-23
View attachment 2384637
View attachment 2384638

and now today 2-25:
View attachment 2384643

Same thing happened to one of my grows. For me the issue was I added 5 plants into very nut rich soil. They all looked like that. two of them just died while the other 3 struggled to make it but ended up (after some time) coming round. Three surviving plants gave me some seed sac on bottom of canopy. First time getting seeds but top buds were fine. These ended up being great F2 seeds I grow a few every run with now. I got a vpd meter and I use this dial https://vpd-calculator.com It has been my biggest upgrade keeping the VPD in perfect ranges. Now I am rewarded in my yield much more then before. Anyone have luck with co2 bags or suggestions?

 

[Grownsince95]

The cruelest trick that plants play on us is that overwatering looks like underwatering until you know what to look for.

A soggy cold/wet bottom is what it looks like from here

 

[HerbalEdu]

which was basically just small frequent waterings instead of spaced out big soaks.

like said:

overwatering isn't necessarely watering with too much water, that's fine if you let it dry enough afterward, it could be watering too often with small amount of water maintening the soil permanently too moist.

 

[Grownsince95]

It's also important to always remind yourself that the roots need air just as much as they need water.

 

[orggrwr]

The main thing that makes me think overwatered is the texture of the leaves, they look thick and bloated which is a sure sign. Looking closer though I see you might have more than 1 problem. The brown spots are a little concerning, probably nute related.

 

[Oldchucky]

It never hurts to use a couple of shims or something and elevate the pot an inch or two so It can dry out through the bottom also!

 

[Grownsince95]

The main thing that makes me think overwatered is the texture of the leaves, they look thick and bloated which is a sure sign. Looking closer though I see you might have more than 1 problem. The brown spots are a little concerning, probably nute related.

The nute problems are a direct result of the over watering

 

[Ninjadogma]

Rattling off the top of my head, nute shock, overwatered, or pH?

I notice an absence of perlite around the base of the plant. Is that because the plant is being watered at the base? If so, a small adjustment you can make is to introduce your water at the drip line of the plant, or if it has good root development throughout the pot, put the water in around the outer edge of the pot.

But you've got a plant in trouble.. How do we get you out of that? Waiting for dryback sucks. The plant suffers in a way that reminds me of an alcoholic going through violent DT's and sometimes like alcoholics, they die during the withdrawal. Meanwhile, root gangrene is trying to set in the whole time. Peroxide can help with the latter problem.

The Cannabis Growers Guide to Hydrogen Peroxide

The Cannabis Growers Guide to Hydrogen Peroxide

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[neneboob]

Thanks so much community. I seriously cannot get over how productive and useful these comments have been. I think I'll be moving here from reddit hell from now on.

I do think this is going to come down to us not following the proper wet dry cycle. Probably overwatered in the exact way that @HerbalEdu says. The main caretaker agrees exactly with the scenario put forwards.

I am happy to discuss nutes further, but I'm not as convinced on this aspect. We've grown bag seeds using the exact same media and nutes. as I said it was in promix (which has no nutes to start with), and then we've been feeding once a week 1/2 the recommended amount on the bottle.

And as you can see from the earlier pictures the color was great. She wilted, and dried before any color changes occurred, so I think those are more a symptom of the plant drying and dying. That said I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Here's my feeding schedule obviously this is planning for a 10 week auto, but with room to change it up if it looks to be finishing quicker than expected:

• Week 1: Big Bloom .5 Tablespoon per gallon
  • Add to soil before planting germinated seed
  • Small Feed when once seed is sprouted
• Week 2: Big Bloom 2 Tablespoons per gallon.
• Week 3: Big Bloom 2 Tablespoons per gallon.
• Week 4: Big Bloom 2 Tablespoons per gallon, Grow big 1.5 teaspoon per gallon, Bush Doctor 1.5 teaspoon per gallon, Tigerbloom 1.5 teaspoons per gallon.
• Week 5: Big Bloom 2 Tablespoons per gallon
• Week 6: Big Bloom 2 Tablespoons per gallon, Grow big 1.5 teaspoon per gallon, Bush Doctor 1.5 teaspoon per gallon, Tigerbloom 1.5 teaspoons per gallon.
• Week 7: Big Bloom 2 Tablespoons per gallon
• Week 8: LAST FEEDING! Big Bloom 2 Tablespoons per gallon, Grow big 1.5 teaspoon per gallon, Bush Doctor 1.5 teaspoon per gallon, Tigerbloom 1.5 teaspoons per gallon.
• Week 9: water
• Week 10: water, and an axe

• overwatering isn't necessarely watering with too much water, that's fine if you let it dry enough afterward, it could be watering too often with small amount of water maintening the soil permanently too moist.
  
  roots don't like either permanently too dry or too wet medium , they need an alternance of both, proper wet dry cycle for the roots are key

 

[neneboob]

Rattling off the top of my head, nute shock, overwatered, or pH?

I notice an absence of perlite around the base of the plant. Is that because the plant is being watered at the base? If so, a small adjustment you can make is to introduce your water at the drip line of the plant, or if it has good root development throughout the pot, put the water in around the outer edge of the pot.

But you've got a plant in trouble.. How do we get you out of that? Waiting for dryback sucks. The plant suffers in a way that reminds me of an alcoholic going through violent DT's and sometimes like alcoholics, they die during the withdrawal. Meanwhile, root gangrene is trying to set in the whole time. Peroxide can help with the latter problem.

The Cannabis Growers Guide to Hydrogen Peroxide

The Cannabis Growers Guide to Hydrogen Peroxide

www.thcfarmer.com

Yes the main caretaker has said he's been watering around the base of the plant, and we've discussed that needs to be altered.

As for it getting out of trouble xD well it already had a pistol or 2 on the 23rd so no clue if she will recover in time. She was unfortunately the canary in the coalmines before we started doing 4 at a time. If all she is able to produce is a crop of knowledge then it is what it is.

 

[Blimburnseeds]

Hello
It may be overwatering and also looks like the symptoms of water embolism with too low ph or bleach in the water. You have to watch the ph of the irrigation water and that it is always at 6.0 like rain water. Tap water should be measured before watering with it. This is an important aspect the water that we use is vital and the water of human consumption of the faucet is not usually the suitable one.

 

[neneboob]

Well I had no clue this plant would ever recover, but after letting her dry out for about a week, and then watering correctly I wanted to show you guys the progress she just started her stretch this week. Somehow only 1 branch actually died and was lost all of the others recovered quickly.

Thanks so much everyone for your help. Obviously it's a small victory for this plant, but for learning it's been a huge one. I'll make a new post once we've harvested to hopefully help people learn from my mistakes, so get your predictions in on it's final weight now.

Yesterday:

March 15ish

 

[Blimburnseeds]

Well I had no clue this plant would ever recover, but after letting her dry out for about a week, and then watering correctly I wanted to show you guys the progress she just started her stretch this week. Somehow only 1 branch actually died and was lost all of the others recovered quickly.

Thanks so much everyone for your help. Obviously it's a small victory for this plant, but for learning it's been a huge one. I'll make a new post once we've harvested to hopefully help people learn from my mistakes, so get your predictions in on it's final weight now.

Yesterday:
View attachment 2405870

March 15ish
View attachment 2405869

Well done