One_bell's first grow (F1 Epsilon auto, RDWC)

[One_Bell]

Day 62 (from sowing seeds, day 59 since sprouting and 47 days after transplanting from aero to rdwc):

Unfortunately the EC went up to 1.3 again so I just lowered it to 1.1 to see if this helps. The waterline did not change much and pH rose from 6.0 to 6.5 this morning. I really hope this helps because more and more leaves start to turn yellow:

I opened almost every growdairy of the F1 Epsilon to see if others had similar issues during this time of growth. Could not find somethin similar. This either a case of too much nutes or too less I presume. Currently, since what I have been reading is pointing towards lower EC values for autoflowers in (r)dwc, I am betting on too much. That is why I lowered it.

Current overview:

I have lowered the temperature a bit and also decreased humidity to between 40-50%.

 

[PlanetOfTheSeeds]

Just relax and keep your ph around 5.9 6.1 by looking at them this is a defect with the auto your doing everything right.

At this stage just like any flowering blooming it starts to fade away not all strains will do this but most auto will.

 

[FungusGnat]

I made the mistake on my first few grows of having way too many tops, very similar to you. I grow in soil, but my roots could not keep up with 30 or so tops (colas) per plant Reducing the number of tops from 30 to 8 stopped the yellowing and produced massive colas. (reduction to less colas was done in later grows)

I'm not saying this is what is happening to you, but I wonder if your roots are able to support so many Colas? That's a lot of tops per plant ! It seems the flowers are cannibalizing your leaves for food...

It could also be senescence, or a combo of this and too many tops.

 

[PlanetOfTheSeeds]

His using hydro I also thought that but this ain’t a problem with hydroponics

He probably needs to start flushing being only two weeks left if he don’t the yellow will get worse it’s like trying to feed top nutrition towards the end of the harvest in geo terms feeding a dead plant

 

[FungusGnat]

His using hydro I also thought that but this ain’t a problem with hydroponics

Glad you chimed in, all I can say is WOW ! If Hydroponics can handle this many tops, I'd love to try it out. That would bring in a huge harvest...

He probably needs to start flushing being only two weeks left if he don’t the yellow will get worse it’s like trying to feed top nutrition towards the end of the harvest in geo terms feeding a dead plant

The main reason I responded here is that the plants look exactly like mine when I over did the Colas... (Same time, same exact color)... But soil and hydroponics are two different things... Just a thought !

 

[One_Bell]

@FungusGnat and @PlanetOfTheSeeds thanks for chiming in. I did some more reading regarding the EC/PPM values for autoflowers in (R)DWC and it seems lower then what I have been using the past week.

Since the plants did not drink much after yesterday evening (EC was stable and pH rose again) and the things I have read today I lowered the EC again, now to 0.9 with a PPM of 600 (x700 scale). I hope this adjustment will help the girls start drinking again because they don't look very well at the moment. One of the comments I came across at autoflowerdotorg from someone experienced with auto's in dwc:
My experience is that about 300 ppm is needed for sprouts, 750-800 ppm for pre-flower, then around 600 ppm for mature plants.
Another comment I just found: You will very rarely go over 950 ppm’s at any point in your grow

Day 63 (from sowing seeds, day 60 since sprouting and 48 days after transplanting from aero to rdwc):

 

[One_Bell]

I found another post that also points me towards overfeeding:

yeah, you need to keep lowering PPM until it stops creeping.
But drinking and not eating is lockout.

A 2 day 50% Nutrient strength “flush” and then going back to full strength will unlock her and she will keep pushing and accept the nutrients again. Although, 800 is pretty high for mid to late flower. It’s ok to drop nutrients. More nutrients doesn’t really mean more flower, it is more like adding stress. So lowering it until PPM stops rising and not bringing it back up won’t hurt your yields. It will relieve her of nutrient stress and free her up to finish.

Ph Down adds sodium. Add that to the liquid salt nutrients and you have a lot of salt constricting the roots. Lowering the PpM and not using as much Ph down should fix your issues.
2 day 50% flush if you are still trying to push her hard on nutrients. Stay on schedule, I like to do that “flush” 2 days before my scheduled swap. It sucks to swap twice but it will make a big difference if you do this.

Credits to @Bdubs for the explanation above, really helpful, thanks!

Disclaimer: don't know if the ppm's above are for an autoflower or photoperiod.

 

[FungusGnat]

I found another post that also points me towards overfeeding:

yeah, you need to keep lowering PPM until it stops creeping.
But drinking and not eating is lockout.

A 2 day 50% Nutrient strength “flush” and then going back to full strength will unlock her and she will keep pushing and accept the nutrients again. Although, 800 is pretty high for mid to late flower. It’s ok to drop nutrients. More nutrients doesn’t really mean more flower, it is more like adding stress. So lowering it until PPM stops rising and not bringing it back up won’t hurt your yields. It will relieve her of nutrient stress and free her up to finish.

Ph Down adds sodium. Add that to the liquid salt nutrients and you have a lot of salt constricting the roots. Lowering the PpM and not using as much Ph down should fix your issues.
2 day 50% flush if you are still trying to push her hard on nutrients. Stay on schedule, I like to do that “flush” 2 days before my scheduled swap. It sucks to swap twice but it will make a big difference if you do this.

Credits to @Bdubs for the explanation above, really helpful, thanks!

Disclaimer: don't know if the ppm's above are for an autoflower or photoperiod.

My first grow went a lot like yours and I thought the same thing....So I tried the less is more approach as you mention for my next few grows. Same problem mid to late flower...Lots of yellowing and cannibalizing of the fan leafs....

I'm not going to push this too far, as I'm sure many will disagree, but I'm almost 100% sure that you have way too many colas going for the amount of roots living in your buckets...It wont matter if you feed less, in fact I'd bet money it will make it worse ! Your roots are not robust enough for that many colas, they simply cant do the job...

Lets say you had two plants going in your buckets mainlined for 8 colas each... You would wind up with 8 massive colas they size of footballs at this point in your grow and they would be green and healthy.... I'm counting 30 or more colas on your plants as they are now... That's a LOT for a plant to support if you ask me....

You have to ask yourself why people grow plants with so few colas. This is why.

 

[One_Bell]

My first grow went a lot like yours and I thought the same thing....So I tried the less is more approach as you mention for my next few grows. Same problem mid to late flower...Lots of yellowing and cannibalizing of the fan leafs....

I'm not going to push this too far, as I'm sure many will disagree, but I'm almost 100% sure that you have way too many colas going for the amount of roots living in your buckets...It wont matter if you feed less, in fact I'd bet money it will make it worse ! Your roots are not robust enough for that many colas, they simply cant do the job...

Lets say you had two plants going in your buckets mainlined for 8 colas each... You would wind up with 8 massive colas they size of footballs at this point in your grow and they would be green and healthy.... I'm counting 30 or more colas on your plants as they are now... That's a LOT for a plant to support if you ask me....

You have to ask yourself why people grow plants with so few colas. This is why.




View attachment 2388036

Thanks for sharing your experience, really appreciate it allthough I would like to hear something else at this point haha. I was always under the impression that I could get away with so many budsites, but never thought if it in relation to the amount of roots I have grown. I am not sure at this point of the 20 liter Growrilla containers are enough.

I did track back the feedings/ec/ppm levels and compared this to the pictures in this growdairy. SInce the 6th of February I went up to 880 ppm.two days later to 920ppm and an EC of 1.3. Three days later I noted 1.5EC and switched to full flower nutes on the 11th with an EC of 1.5. After that you see the leaves are started to turn yellow.

Small update regarding the feeding, EC has been totally stable at 0.9 now, pH drifted 0.1 from 6.0 to 6.1. PPM's have been rising from 600 to 620 now over the course of 9 hours.

 

[FungusGnat]

Thanks for sharing your experience, really appreciate it allthough I would like to hear something else at this point haha. I was always under the impression that I could get away with so many budsites, but never thought if it in relation to the amount of roots I have grown. I am not sure at this point of the 20 liter Growrilla containers are enough.

I did track back the feedings/ec/ppm levels and compared this to the pictures in this growdairy. SInce the 6th of February I went up to 880 ppm.two days later to 920ppm

So, just to show you I've been in your spot more than once, lets see if my prediction is correct... (mark my words) By the way, your doing great for a first grow, please dont take me the wrong way !

The next few weeks will get rough, very rough. Most leaves will be depleted as the flowers try to find food that the roots aren't able to provide. At this point, you want to ride it out to harvest, not much can be done.. Just hope the yellowing doesn't make it to the flowers...

Your plants are much larger than you think. You did a really good job training low and even, but look how wide they are and how many flower sites they have !

While I am slightly insulted that you don't trust me here, I respect you for wanting second opinions... This is good ! There is a lot of bad information being passed along, and you are smart to doubt what others tell you..

We'll have to wait and see......

How's the odor coming along by the way? I see others here asking about Epsilon's odor level and am curious too..

Mainline (few colas) in hydroponics. MASSIVE colas ! These colas take a lot from a plant, much more than leaves in Veg !

Link to a great read about training..

mainline reading

Bigger Buds with Nebula's Easy Manifold (Cannabis Main-Lining Tutorial) | Grow Weed Easy

by Nebula Haze Table of Contents Intro: What is Main-Lining Cannabis? Ultra-Quick Guide to Building a Manifold

www.growweedeasy.com

 

[One_Bell]

So, just to show you I've been in your spot more than once, lets see if my prediction is correct... (mark my words) By the way, your doing great for a first grow, please dont take me the wrong way !

The next few weeks will get rough, very rough. Most leaves will be depleted as the flowers try to find food that the roots aren't able to provide. At this point, you want to ride it out to harvest, not much can be done.. Just hope the yellowing doesn't make it to the flowers...

Your plants are much larger than you think. You did a really good job training low and even, but look how wide they are and how many flower sites they have !

While I am slightly insulted that you don't trust me here, I respect you for wanting second opinions... This is good ! There is a lot of bad information being passed along, and you are smart to doubt what others tell you..

We'll have to wait and see......

How's the odor coming along by the way? I see others here asking about Epsilon's odor level and am curious too..

Mainline (few colas) in hydroponics. MASSIVE colas ! These colas take a lot from a plant, much more than leaves in Veg !


View attachment 2388055



Link to a great read about training..

mainline reading

Bigger Buds with Nebula's Easy Manifold (Cannabis Main-Lining Tutorial) | Grow Weed Easy

by Nebula Haze Table of Contents Intro: What is Main-Lining Cannabis? Ultra-Quick Guide to Building a Manifold

www.growweedeasy.com

My fellowfarmer, never said I did not trust you, only hope I can bring this to a good end. The link you posted also has an example of more main cola's then 8, the nebula manifold method:

In the Nebula manifold method, we keep ALL the colas that will produce big buds. These plants still have several weeks until harvest to fatten up further.



Unlike with Nugbuckets’ original method, we keep all the big bud sites (“colas”) that reach the top of the plant. This results in bigger overall yields than just keeping the original 8 colas recommended by Nugbuckets. Another difference is that you do one less cut, which saved recovery time without lowering yields in our experiments.

The odor is pretty non-existing at the moment, after starting to vent outside of the room. When I am in front of the tent (being open) and one of the fans steers a small breeze at me you can smell something. But with the tent closed, inline fan on level 3 minimum it is all good in the hood.
If I start working in the tent I up the inline fan to level 4 as a minimum and deactivate the humidifier. Since I am currently at lower levels of humidity (35-50% instead of 50-65%) I have the feeling the carbon filter is working better, @longbottom so far no smell outside of the tent since venting outside (instead of venting into the small lungroom again).

 

[FungusGnat]

My fellowfarmer, never said I did not trust you, only hope I can bring this to a good end. The link you posted also has an example of more main cola's then 8, the nebula manifold method:

As I say your doing the right thing asking for second opinions and NOT trusting everyone here on the forums. A lot of people jump in tossing half ass advice.... Nobody cares about your grow as much as you do and if you want something done right, (you know the expression)..

Lets see what happens in the next week or so...I'm only jumping in here because I've been through your exact situation and really want to share how it was fixed. (less flower sites was a miracle for me, nice and green all the way to harvest ----MASSIVE colas....)

Thanks so much for the odor report, it sounds like it is a less smelly strain from your description. Maybe I'll give it a try...

Also, even if things get rough in the next few weeks, I'm very confident that you'll make it to harvest and get some great smoke... You can fine tune and try other tricks next grow.... This is how we learn ! Your hitting it out of the park for your first grow no doubt.... (pat yourself on back)

In the Nebula manifold method, we keep ALL the colas that will produce big buds. These plants still have several weeks until harvest to fatten up further.



Unlike with Nugbuckets’ original method, we keep all the big bud sites (“colas”) that reach the top of the plant. This results in bigger overall yields than just keeping the original 8 colas recommended by Nugbuckets. Another difference is that you do one less cut, which saved recovery time without lowering yields in our experiments.

The odor is pretty non-existing at the moment, after starting to vent outside of the room. When I am in front of the tent (being open) and one of the fans steers a small breeze at me you can smell something. But with the tent closed, inline fan on level 3 minimum it is all good in the hood.
If I start working in the tent I up the inline fan to level 4 as a minimum and deactivate the humidifier. Since I am currently at lower levels of humidity (35-50% instead of 50-65%) I have the feeling the carbon filter is working better, @longbottom so far no smell outside of the tent since venting outside (instead of venting into the small lungroom again).

 

[PlanetOfTheSeeds]

My fellowfarmer, never said I did not trust you, only hope I can bring this to a good end. The link you posted also has an example of more main cola's then 8, the nebula manifold method:

In the Nebula manifold method, we keep ALL the colas that will produce big buds. These plants still have several weeks until harvest to fatten up further.



Unlike with Nugbuckets’ original method, we keep all the big bud sites (“colas”) that reach the top of the plant. This results in bigger overall yields than just keeping the original 8 colas recommended by Nugbuckets. Another difference is that you do one less cut, which saved recovery time without lowering yields in our experiments.

The odor is pretty non-existing at the moment, after starting to vent outside of the room. When I am in front of the tent (being open) and one of the fans steers a small breeze at me you can smell something. But with the tent closed, inline fan on level 3 minimum it is all good in the hood.
If I start working in the tent I up the inline fan to level 4 as a minimum and deactivate the humidifier. Since I am currently at lower levels of humidity (35-50% instead of 50-65%) I have the feeling the carbon filter is working better, @longbottom so far no smell outside of the tent since venting outside (instead of venting into the small lungroom again).

By looking at this picture you got some fat bud I say when it’s like 10 days left to harvest start flushing 14 days to harvest is recommend so you don’t get a harsh kick when smoking I don’t know really how to grow but from watching and looking I think I could, but won’t it’s to risky

But I will message you a top hydroponic videos you can watch and see what he does.

RAs I say you’re doing the right thing asking for second opinions and NOT trusting everyone here on the forums. A lot of people jump in tossing half ass advice.... Nobody cares about your grow as much as you do and if you want something done right, (you know the expression).

Lets see what happens in the next week or so...I'm only jumping in here because I've been through your exact situation and really want to share how it was fixed. (less flower sites was a miracle for me, nice and green all the way to harvest ----MASSIVE colas....)

Thanks so much for the odor report, it sounds like it is a less smelly strain from your description. Maybe I'll give it a try...

Also, even if things get rough in the next few weeks, I'm very confident that you'll make it to harvest and get some great smoke... You can fine tune and try other tricks next grow.... This is how we learn ! Your hitting it out of the park for your first grow no doubt.... (pat yourself on back)

Your right dude no one cares how he plants will turn out but he put so much detail I had to help.

 

[Greenadian]

recommend so you don’t get a harsh kick when smoking I don’t know really how to grow but from watching and looking I think I could, but won’t it’s to risky

Hey there @PlanetOfTheSeeds are you not a grower?

 

[PlanetOfTheSeeds]

Hey there @PlanetOfTheSeeds are you not a grower?

I am not

 

[Galgrows]

@PlanetOfTheSeeds If you do not have hands on experience how is it that you can advise others? Rather than pointing to others growing styles from " videos" do you ever grow your own? I'm just asking about your experience in growing MJ.

 

[PlanetOfTheSeeds]

ok ok, just forget I ever inputted I know nothing.

 

[PlanetOfTheSeeds]

I could of been. I been looking into shrooms lately growing is much easier by looks of it than weed and it’s legal for personal use not a class b: plus if you don’t bong the cost of Rizla is a joke if you don’t buy in bulk I gave up weed the beginning of the year still going through sweats just done with it it’s so bad quality messed with my lungs, so now on a healing and health journey

 

[One_Bell]

Day 64 (from sowing seeds, day 61 since sprouting and 49 days after transplanting from aero to rdwc):

Seems like the plants like their new EC value more then the previous week. They slowly started to drink a bit and PPM's went up from 600 yesterday to 640 just now. It also looks like the budtops have grown a bit:

Ec remains rock steady at 0.9 and only had to pH down twice to keep it between 6.0 en 6.2.

 

[FungusGnat]

By looking at this picture you got some fat bud I say when it’s like 10 days left to harvest start flushing 14 days to harvest is recommend so you don’t get a harsh kick when smoking I don’t know really how to grow but from watching and looking I think I could, but won’t it’s to risky

Didn't realize OP was so close to harvest. dam time flies by with Auto's ... A little yellowing this late isn't always a bad thing. OP should be just fine if this is the case !

But I will message you a top hydroponic videos you can watch and see what he does.






Your right dude no one cares how he plants will turn out but he put so much detail I had to help.