Cloning during flower DIY bubble cloner

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

I am a fairly experienced grower and have been cloning for years, fine-tuning my technique to get around 95% success rate.
I have been an organic grower for some time now and was fairly happy with bottled organics but have made the switch to dry amendments. I used to use cloning gel and a light nutrient schedule from the bottle but want to eliminate that as well.

My last couple rounds of cloning with gel but without nutrients had poor results, like 50% success rate and half the clones that survived were in terrible condition.

My last round of clones were taken just before the donors went into the flower room and also had a low success rate and some of them took just over two weeks to throw roots. As a result, I was not able to keep clones of many of my flowering plants.

I should point out that this is a mixed grow from seed, now just over four weeks in bloom. I have found three plants that I would really, really like to keep around based on their terps and structure but don’t have clones of them.

So, I built myself a bubble cloner with the intention of only using water, no gels, no nutes. However, since I’m four weeks plus into flower I expect the clones to take a long time to root, if at all. So if I see a clone about to die but has roots, I think I will add some liquid organic nutes just to save its life.

They just went in to the machine late last night.
It’s my first time using this machine so it’s not really fair to judge its overall effectiveness if these flowering clones don’t survive, but I think it will still be interesting to see the results if they do survive.
I did notice a bit of a dead spot in one corner of the reservoir, but I couldn’t do much about it. I placed a clone directly above it just to test, and that clone seems to have wilted already.
I just came up with a solution to correct that problem while writing this, but it’s gonna be too late for that cutting.

Hopefully there won’t be frequent updates because that would mean they’re dropping like flies. I don’t expect roots to appear for some time, and that’s when I really want to post again.
That said, I’m happy to reply to anyone in the meantime.

Incidentally, the keepers are an old (10 years +) Durban Poison from Dutch Passion that has purple hues and reeks of lemon cleaner.
There’s also a Big D Energy freebie from Ethos that stinks of orange gas and has huge branches, hopefully preparing for huge buds.
Finally, there’s a Pink Kush from Reeferman with a very strong fruity candy funk smell.

 

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

First official casualty got pulled today (same one from first post) :

This is in the dead corner where the bubbles were not going due to currents in the reservoir. That corner will be fixed next run.

All the others look happy for now

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

I've never heard of cloning during the reproductive stage. Are you also trying to reveg the clones?

 

[Grownsince95]

What was the temp and humidity? It looks like they wilted because they had to transpire without any roots. Is there a dome for your cloner?

 

[Grownsince95]

If the clones end up failing just re-veg the moms. Take only 85-90% when you chop, prune the roots, transplant and put it back under 24hrs of light.

It takes forever but if you can't stand the thought of loosing the genetics it works.

 

[Grownsince95]

The problem with cloning during flower (besides the more woody stem) is that your adding extra stress asking it to re-veg and root at the same time.

The older stem issue is easily overcome by using a razor blade to gently peel away the top woody layer on the bottom inch of the cut.

 

[Ninjadogma]

I've never heard of cloning during the reproductive stage. Are you also trying to reveg the clones?

Monster cropping. I had a long ass post but decided to share some pics instead. I don't have it wired, probably getting around 30% success rate. I made my first two by accident and been working on dialing it in.

To original poster, I suggest a dome over your box, or a plastic jug over each plant to prevent that sad wilting and ultimate failure. The one I have under that jug is 6 days old, zero wilt. Notice I'm running a double humidity dome zone in there: High humidity and elevated humidity.

I haven't had any success ever taking a bud and getting it to root. I take the clipping after the flip but before preflower, and I only give the clones 12 hours of light. They start to grow a preflower and then I crank it to 24/0. After a while some non serrated leaves start popping out of the top of the bud.

 

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

I've never heard of cloning during the reproductive stage. Are you also trying to reveg the clones?

As someone else pointed out this is called monster cropping, but that’s when the goal is to produce an extremely branchy plant that is meant to yield heavily when it flowers again.

In my case, I am simply taking clones too late.
With any luck they will reveg and I will have mothers to continue the genetics.

 

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

What was the temp and humidity? It looks like they wilted because they had to transpire without any roots. Is there a dome for your cloner?

Only one wilted, directly above a dead spot in the reservoir. Currents inside the reservoir keep bubbles away from that corner. Will be fixing soon. The stem was bone dry.

The water temp is right in the sweet spot for a bubbler.
The air temp and humidity is difficult to measure exactly at this little canopy because there is a micro climate where the humidity seeps up through the pucks and hangs for a bit in the canopy. The moisture doesn’t pass through the pucks themselves but as soon as they hold a plant there is a small gap like a Pac-Man mouth. From all the research I’ve done, this removes the need for a dome.

 

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

If the clones end up failing just re-veg the moms. Take only 85-90% when you chop, prune the roots, transplant and put it back under 24hrs of light.

It takes forever but if you can't stand the thought of loosing the genetics it works.

Agreed! I have done that before before and it is absolutely the most reliable way to reveg. That said, some plants don’t like it and will hermie. Hopefully the bubbler works instead!

 

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

Monster cropping. I had a long ass post but decided to share some pics instead. I don't have it wired, probably getting around 30% success rate. I made my first two by accident and been working on dialing it in.

To original poster, I suggest a dome over your box, or a plastic jug over each plant to prevent that sad wilting and ultimate failure. The one I have under that jug is 6 days old, zero wilt. Notice I'm running a double humidity dome zone in there: High humidity and elevated humidity.

I haven't had any success ever taking a bud and getting it to root. I take the clipping after the flip but before preflower, and I only give the clones 12 hours of light. They start to grow a preflower and then I crank it to 24/0. After a while some non serrated leaves start popping out of the top of the bud.

Thanks for the input
I have a dome handy but supposedly shouldn’t need it. The one cutting I removed was bone dry because of a dead spot in the reservoir. I posted something above in reply to someone else a minute ago about why it shouldn’t be required.
I have successfully revegged a flowering mother a a few times and have tried to reveg a flowering clone before but failed. I’m hoping the machine will make a difference.
Good luck perfecting your art too

 

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

I have added some vegging cuttings to the mix to see how they do versus flowering clones. Basically a more fair test of the machine.

The newest cuts are Permanent Marker that I just took from the mother.
The flowering cuts have some potent terps, but nothing like these after 12/12!
They actually smell and taste like the old squeaky permanent markers! Not that I’ve ever tasted any permanent markers

 

[Petesaguy]

I would suggest to limit the transpiration issues, clip the leaves in half. Domes help, but so does limiting the leaf surface. I clone this way all the time, over 90 percent success all the time.

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

Monster cropping.

As someone else pointed out this is called monster cropping

Ah yes... Monster Cropping. Thanks. I forgot I knew about that. I don't do much cloning, and when I do it's ordinary. I have two Zkittles clones waiting for transplanting right now. They're just side branches I cut about the same time I flipped the lights. So, they're not particularly interesting.

 

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

I think we’re five days for the veg cuts and seven days for the flowered cuts now and nothing to report!

That could still be considered a good thing as all the cuttings look happy and I have not lost any since the second day when I lost one to the “death zone”.

 

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

First sign of progress! The focus is bad but you can still see what’s going on.

These tiny roots are on one of the vegging cuttings. The picture is from yesterday, haven’t been in the room today.

Hopefully the flower cuttings will take soon.

 

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

12 days in and still no noticeable roots on the flowering clones (three different strains).

10 days in for the vegging clones and they all have noticeable roots (one strain but was troublesome to clone under a dome).

 

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

Earlier today I had a look and was amazed to see how much more growth there is with the roots once they start in this cloner.

The other thing I’m noticing is that all the cuttings are still essentially the same shade of green as when they were cut from their donor plants. I mean, if these things were under the dome in peat pucks they would absolutely have some leaves yellowing and browning by the time the roots pop out.
These girls look about 99.9% the same as the day they went in two weeks ago, except some of them have roots now.

I was extremely happy to find the flowering plant I was really hoping to keep above the rest, has roots on two of the cuttings now.

I find interesting is that one of the tiniest clones I have ever taken is one that is showing roots now. I don’t think it’s more than 2 inches tall and has a bud on it was very skinny leaves.

Those flowering cuttings showing roots are from very old seeds (10+ years, maybe 15) I had of Durban Poison from Dutch Passion. I have grown a few out of the same pack a couple times over the years and was completely unimpressed, but I’m so glad I gave it another chance and grew the last few seeds now.
This particular pheno has a very purple hue that is really tough to capture with the camera. More importantly it reeks of lemon cleaner and seems to be roughly 60% sativa, so I’m really looking forward to sampling the flower in a few more weeks. Maybe by then these clones will have revegged.

Even though this test of my machine is only partway through, I would say I am now a bubble cloner convert !
I don’t think I’ll ever use another dome and I’m still undecided about cloning gels or powders but most likely won’t be using them as some of the cuttings have rooted without anything more than water.

 

[Spliffy.Twojoints]

Just a day later and every single strain (not every single cutting, yet) has decent roots or at least the beginnings of roots.

I noticed one cutting with drooping leaves and realized the water level needed to be topped up.

Someone else mentioned to me that one of the few maintenance tasks required might be that you need to top up the water. I expect it it’s just being lost through the high humidity under the lid seeping out into the room. I’m guessing that same humidity leaking from under the lid is what’s keeping the upper parts of the plant somewhat humid, and that’s why the dome isn’t required?

I’m so blown away by how efficient this system is, from the smallest to the thickest woodiest cutting, they still throw roots. This was a woody cutting from a vegging plant and is about a quarter inch in diameter.

Notice how shallow the angle of the cut is, I wasn’t even trying to maximize the exposure and still roots formed. I also didn’t split the stalk or scrape the sides, two other things I used to do with great success.

I also want to talk about the water. I haven’t changed it for two weeks and I used tapwater from the city. I have been topping up maybe 2 L (8 cups) a week. I have added no other chemicals or disinfectant of any kind. I believe the water is algae free partially because of the continuous motion of the bubbles but also due to the chloramine in the water. Nowadays much of our city water is treated with chlorine AND/OR chloramine. The chlorine can evaporate from water over a few hours or a day in an open container. However, a 5 gallon bucket of water would take weeks for the chloramine to evaporate without any other actions being taken like boiling or adding dechlorinaters.

The only thing I think I haven’t touched on is the lighting. I used a single T8 in a shop light meant for two bulbs. I kept it 24 inches above and it was on 24 hours. I think that’s the next thing I will experiment with, most people agree ambient light is best, I’m just thinking 18/6 or 20/4 might speed things up.

 

[Galgrows]

I keep my t-5 light on 24-0 until they are well rooted on my clones and then 18-6.