Hi farmers, when it comes to seed production feminized seeds from female plant or regular seeds male pollination?

[Ras_d]

Hi farmers, I'm looking to become self-sufficient... I'm thinking to produce seeds either from feminized plant by silver spray, or get a bunch of regular seeds to produce bunch of 2nd generation seeds from male pollen.

Please comment on the pros and cons..

btw, I'm new to breeding.

 

[Grownsince95]

STS pro's:
Produces only female seeds
Eliminates the guesswork selecting males
Better chance of selected traits in offspring

STS con's:
Can't smoke any plants you spray
Has to be made and used fast due to short shelf life.
Big learning curve with application and timing so that seeds are viable
Possible to lock in recessive hermaphrodite traits in offspring

Regular seed pro's:
Access to greater genetic diversity in the parents (unless you're doing R1 crosses)
Much more healthy viable pollen
You can smoke your results

Regular seed con's:
You have to grow twice as many plants than you will harvest
Selecting good males can be a crapshoot in the beginning and take you backwards
Higher risk of accidental pollination of non seed crop
Needs to be outcrossed eventually to avoid inbreeding depression

Both techniques will require you to either have a second setup for breeding or to do seed only runs sometimes. With regular seeds and R1 crosses you can at least smoke the results. If you are going to use STS you should make it yourself. It has an extremely short shelf life even when stored perfectly and the shit available online is bad 75% of the time.

Good luck and keep us posted

 

[Ras_d]

STS pro's:
Produces only female seeds
Eliminates the guesswork selecting males
Better chance of selected traits in offspring

STS con's:
Can't smoke any plants you spray
Has to be made and used fast due to short shelf life.
Big learning curve with application and timing so that seeds are viable
Possible to lock in recessive hermaphrodite traits in offspring

Regular seed pro's:
Access to greater genetic diversity in the parents (unless you're doing R1 crosses)
Much more healthy viable pollen
You can smoke your results

Regular seed con's:
You have to grow twice as many plants than you will harvest
Selecting good males can be a crapshoot in the beginning and take you backwards
Higher risk of accidental pollination of non seed crop
Needs to be outcrossed eventually to avoid inbreeding depression

Both techniques will require you to either have a second setup for breeding or to do seed only runs sometimes. With regular seeds and R1 crosses you can at least smoke the results. If you are going to use STS you should make it yourself. It has an extremely short shelf life even when stored perfectly and the shit available online is bad 75% of the time.

Good luck and keep us posted

Thank you @Grownsince95 for your detailed reply, I'm new to this, so there are a few things I need to make clear..

It has an extremely short shelf life

You mean the seeds produced from STS have a short shelf life? Also, it's really hard to get a good feminized seed from the net, right?

What is R1 cross?

Needs to be outcrossed eventually to avoid inbreeding depression

If I continue crossing the regular seeds from the breeder, which is F1, then I will have no issues with the inbreeding depression, right? A couple of hundreds of seeds can last a life time if stored correctly.

By the way, I heard that seeds produced cannot sprout directly; they have to wait for a couple of months to activate. Also, what's the best condition to store seeds for a long time?

I will be grateful if you recommend a few seed breeders who provide nice seeds. Thank you.

 

[ArtfulCodger]

@Grownsince95 gave you good info. One thing I'll add is that if you do this indoors, you'll end up with pollen everywhere, unless you can isolate the seed area's air handling.

 

[Grownsince95]

Thank you @Grownsince95 for your detailed reply, I'm new to this, so there are a few things I need to make clear..



You mean the seeds produced from STS have a short shelf life? Also, it's really hard to get a good feminized seed from the net, right?

What is R1 cross?


If I continue crossing the regular seeds from the breeder, which is F1, then I will have no issues with the inbreeding depression, right? A couple of hundreds of seeds can last a life time if stored correctly.

By the way, I heard that seeds produced cannot sprout directly; they have to wait for a couple of months to activate. Also, what's the best condition to store seeds for a long time?

I will be grateful if you recommend a few seed breeders who provide nice seeds. Thank you.

The STS you spray the plant with has a short shelf life, the seeds if kept well last for years.

An R1 cross is when you flip a female to produce pollen, you use that pollen on another female plant not the pollen donor itself. The seeds on the plant you flipped are S1.

If you continue to breed brother and sister plants, down the line you could run into problems if you're not selecting from enough plants.

I've had seeds fall off a plant and germinate underneath them.

Hopefully others will chime in on where to get seeds I haven't bought any since I started chucking pollen lol.

 

[Latvian]

STS = all female seeds, more work, can't smoke sprayed plants.
Regular seeds = more variety, easier start, but you’ll get males.

Do both if you can. See what works best for you.

 

[Berniemac]

Hi farmers, I'm looking to become self-sufficient... I'm thinking to produce seeds either from feminized plant by silver spray, or get a bunch of regular seeds to produce bunch of 2nd generation seeds from male pollen.

Please comment on the pros and cons..

btw, I'm new to breeding.

Bro let me tell you right now skip the colloidal silver, it works every now and then. If any. And apparently it’s not the best for genetics in the long run. Nothing like growing natural seeds and selecting later! It’s actually a good way to breed genes you want! Like @Grownsince95 said!

 

[amneziaHaze]

i bought from amazon 30 or 40ppm premade silver and it worked.i started spraying when i switched the lamp 1-2 times a day managed to use the whole bottle until the end .i allsoo smoke the buds still nothing bad happened. the silver is sold to be inhaled eaten or put on skin soo probably not that bad

 

[Thatoneguyyouknow_]

Bro let me tell you right now skip the colloidal silver, it works every now and then. If any. And apparently it’s not the best for genetics in the long run. Nothing like growing natural seeds and selecting later! It’s actually a good way to breed genes you want! Like @Grownsince95 said!

ive never had colloidal silver fail. There are lots of sources that just sell you distilled water and call it colloidal silver though. Avoid supplement brand's colloidal silver. And silver thiosulfate works well too.

@Ras_d

i make feminized seeds to share my lineages with friends. I make and hunt regular seed to find my clone mothers. The average ppest and disease resistance, and vigor of a fem,ale selected from reg seed stock tends to be vastly superior to your average feminized plants.


Another good way to put it, is that when i grow fem seeds outdoors, i only grow F1's (R1s) I dont like putting highly inbred plants with excessive recessive traits outside. Its more stress then its worth most of the time.



You will have lower rates of hermies in stabilized reg seed stock vs fem, absolute certainty. And if the reg seed stock is non inbred and unstabilized, and youve been cataloguing your recessive traits wisely, you probably wont even see hermies if you half kill a plant halfway through flower. Its a recessive trait. However you will have far more phenotypic expression within the seeds too. But for a larger scale grower that keeps clone mothers and multiple tents, thats actually ideal. You can hunt your own unique and desirable phenos that no one else has. For a smaller scale grower, thats less then ideal. Having consistency within seeds can potentially trump disease hermie and pest resistance, and general vigor by preference.



You *will* get better female plants from non inbred, reg, f1 stock, so long as the plants brought into the lineage were relatively stable and desirable themselves, and thats a fact not an opinion. Some recessive traits you want to keep. You'll just have to hunt a bit to find the phenos youll keep, but once you do, youll struggle to find anything from seedbanks and feminized breeders that even shakes a stick at em. Itll be like comparing a french bulldog, to an F1 bull mastiff. They're both bully breeds lol.

 

[Coconutz]

I'd start with regular seeds hunt some plants worth the effort then maybe look at selfing/crossing those and using the female pollen to go around?

Ime regular seeds have yeilded a much higher ratio of keeper's fem seeds overall haven't really done it for me with a few exceptions.

 

[ArtfulCodger]

I know it's not what you asked, but cloning is another great way to be self-sufficient. Less time and effort involved, and you don't have to deal with the variation that comes with running seeds.

 

[Grownsince95]

I know it's not what you asked, but cloning is another great way to be self-sufficient. Less time and effort involved, and you don't have to deal with the variation that comes with running seeds.

^ I wish I'd mentioned this!!! Absolutely dead ass on point.

While the breeding fuckery is going on you will find a plant that blows everything else away and needs to be a mom and cloned. This is how we did it with mexican bag seeds in the 90's. You will probably just grow that until you're sick of smoking it and ready to move on but you can also back cross to her with any promising males instead of picking a new sister mom each run. This will also help narrow down the traits being passed on each generation.

This is your Bx1. If you flip a female and cross it back with it's mom that's RBx1. The R stands for "reversed' because you made a lady make pollen.

 

[Grownsince95]

Breeding cannabis is as complex as breeding people. The DNA works exactly the same way. Try picking two random people from Facebook and tell me what their babies would look like. You might have a good educated guess based on the parents phenotype but you know how kids work...some will be Le Bron, and the rest will be little Bronnie lol.

 

[Ras_d]

I know it's not what you asked, but cloning is another great way to be self-sufficient. Less time and effort involved, and you don't have to deal with the variation that comes with running seeds.

@ArtfulCodger pal, u get the point! I switched to seed production because I have a low success rate of sprouting... the last 6 seeds I sprouted were unsuccessful. I used the 7% hydrogen peroxide + a bit of molasses method, I soak my seeds in this sugar hydrogen peroxide liquid for 24 hrs before I put them into a wet towel. I used a heat mat to ensure my paper towel stays at 25 degrees Celsius for an ideal environment. I used all my seeds to get one proper female! However, the seeds were 3-4 years old.

This was my mother plant. Now I have no seeds... maybe I need to figure out a way for better method for seed storage, germination, and a way for seed production.

@Grownsince95 @Thatoneguyyouknow_ thanks for the detailed explanation, Next batch I will order a bunch of regular to try them out. I will sprout them all find my ideal male and female, preserve the clones, and try to breed F1 and R1.

 

[Ras_d]

@Grownsince95 @Thatoneguyyouknow_ @Coconutz @All​

Are there any differences in the seeds if I do the seed production indoors and outdoors? since the pollen spread can be an issue I might just do them in the greenhouse.

Which seed is more potent? Feminize seeds from STS spray, or Seeds from male pollen?