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Advice needed please, plant looking sad.

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Advice needed please, plant looking sad.

mxvet747 84 Replies 5,707 Views
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#61
I think we're not understanding each other. We probably agree just not understanding each other right now.

But ..peat moss by itself ...is inert. Quick Google and this ...

Yes, peat moss is generally considered inert. While it's an organic material, it doesn't contain significant amounts of nutrients readily available for plant growth.

And I agree it will drop your pH if left unattended. How low .. ? That's another discussion.

And this is why there's two different charts out there for cannabis. One for synthetic growers and one for organic. Pick one, don't do both. Synganics will mess you up that way. Especially when your trying to troubleshoot a problem. Your trying to grow in two different ideology and neither suggests from both sides help.
 
#62
Weird because google tells me otherwise when I search for it and this is what Ive been knowing for years and what I applied when making my soil for years too. Peat soils are considered soil not hydro, even if you have the most inert kind of peat moss which is black peat moss its still not fully inert, and black peat moss is not used in soils for weed, the most common is blonde peat moss.

No, peat moss is not considered an inert material, although it is often used as a soilless growing medium. While it's chemically stable and doesn't readily decompose (but it does over time), it does have the ability to retain water and nutrients. It also lacks the typical nutrients found in soil and requires supplementation for plant growth.

Here's a more detailed explanation:
  • Inert vs. Not Inert:
    An inert substance is one that is chemically inactive and doesn't react with other materials. While peat moss is relatively stable, it's not entirely inert. It can absorb water and some nutrients, and it can affect the pH of the surrounding soil.

  • Soilless Medium:
    Peat moss is often used in soilless growing mixes because it provides good drainage and aeration, and it can help retain moisture.

  • Nutrient Content:
    Peat moss itself is low in nutrients and doesn't provide much in the way of nutrition for plants. This is why it's often mixed with other materials like compost or fertilizers.

  • pH Modification:
    Peat moss can help lower the pH of soil, making it more acidic, which is beneficial for certain plants like blueberries and azaleas.
 
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#63
I can go further and tell you that every single peat based soil you encounter will have a ph ranged in between 6 and 7.
6 and 6,5 being the most common, why would they give you unproper PH with your soil? FFOF has a ph in between 6,3 and 6,8 but even soils that have no organic ammendments at all and are fertilized chemically have that ph range too.
 
#64
Synthetic line from AN
Jungle Juice Grow, a 3-part nutrient system by Advanced Nutrients, requires pH adjustment in soil. Specifically, the recommended pH range for soil with Jungle Juice is 6.3. Unlike some of their other products, Jungle Juice does not automatically balance pH.

For optimal nutrient absorption, maintaining the correct pH is crucial. In soil, a pH of 6.3 ensures that plants can access the nutrients provided by Jungle Juice Grow, Micro, and Bloom effectively.
 
#65
Also while peat can be used in hydro, its not commonly chosen and certainly not alone unless youre talking about coco peat but you said peat moss so I assume youre not. Lets see what google has to say about using peat for hydro:

Peat-based soils are not typically considered hydroponic media in the strictest sense, but they can be used as a component in soilless growing systems. While peat can retain water and nutrients, it can also break down and clog systems, making it less ideal than other hydroponic mediums like rockwool or horticultural sponge.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Why peat is used in soilless culture:
  • Water retention: Peat moss has a high water-holding capacity, which can be beneficial in hydroponic systems.

  • Nutrient retention: It can hold onto nutrients, making them available to plants.

  • Cost-effective: Peat is often a relatively inexpensive and readily available option.

  • Good for certain plants: Some plants thrive in peat-based substrates.
Why peat is not ideal for hydroponics:
  • Decomposition:
    Peat moss decomposes over time, which can clog systems and affect nutrient solutions.

  • Waterlogging:
    If not managed properly, peat can become waterlogged, hindering root growth.

  • Hydrophobicity:
    When dry, peat can be difficult to re-wet, leading to uneven moisture distribution.

  • Potential for clogging:
    The breakdown of peat can lead to sediment buildup in hydroponic systems, potentially damaging pumps and affecting nutrient delivery.
 
#66
  • Peat as Soil: <<----- This is the one people buy all the time
    Peat soil, also known as Histosol or organosol, is characterized by its high organic matter content (often above 75%) and its formation from the accumulation and decomposition of plant matter in wet environments.

  • Peat in Hydroponics:
    Peat moss is sometimes used in hydroponic systems because of its ability to retain water and nutrients. However, it's not ideal for pure hydroponic setups because, when wet and exposed to oxygen, it can decompose, potentially compressing around plant roots and hindering growth.
 
#67
Another google search gave me this:
For plants to remain healthy and happy, they must be fed within an ideal pH range. For most plants in peat moss or soil-based systems, this pH range falls anywhere between 6.0 – 6.5. This scale can be thought of as the “sweet spot” for nutrient uptake.
 
#68
Also Ive never seen a chart of ph based on nutrients being organic or synthetic instead of being peat-soil or hydro, if you could provide one that would help clearing the confusion because Im pretty sure that whenever theyre saying 5,5ph theyre refeering to hydro/coco and not peat/soil.
 
#69
The bad thing about asking AI for help is it can only give an answer that is written somewhere on teh internet. With 20 years of bro science online and in forums, it sneaks into AI answers way too often. It has no REAL WORLD hands on experience.
 
#70
7munkee said:
The bad thing about asking AI for help is it can only give an answer that is written somewhere on teh internet. With 20 years of bro science online and in forums, it sneaks into AI answers way too often. It has no REAL WORLD hands on experience.
Click to expand...
While thats true, its very convenient to search for something you already know so it sumarizes it for you and I dont see the quotes coming from forums but rather webpages which is also good, I think the AI knows not to use forums as reference hahaha.
What Im seeing with my searches is information that Ive known for a long time so Im not afraid to use it but sometimes it can contradict itself, thats true.
 
#71
I dont know it would be nice to compare what other people think because this is important and if Im wrong I wanna know it. All my years of growing Ive been using 6,2-6,5 ph for soil in my peat mixes and most of them seem to come at between 6 and 7ph anyway, 6 and 6,5 being more common. I know one brand (Covercrop) that has a wider range of 5,5 to 6,5 but I never tried it, also its the only one that Ive seen that comes with black peat even though most of it its blonde peat. The rest I used in the past and pressent like biobizz, atami and canna terra comes at 6ph or 6,5ph, and others than wont come to mind unless I specifically search for them.
EDIT: Also I didnt start growing organic, I started with the AN synthetic line and the adviced PH for peat soils was 6,2 as I posted previosly.
 
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#72
7munkee said:
The bad thing about asking AI for help is it can only give an answer that is written somewhere on teh internet. With 20 years of bro science online and in forums, it sneaks into AI answers way too often. It has no REAL WORLD hands on experience.
Click to expand...
If anecdotal evidence (bro science) is so bad, why are you (or any of us) on this site. After all, it's loaded with bro science. There are as many ways to grow, as there are growers, with many of them being very successful.

I don't know about you, but I come here to learn from and interact with people who are better growers than me, and I'm capable of producing 10lbs of dank out of a 3x9' footprint. Some of what I do straight up defies conventional wisdom and what the pro's say; yet it works.

If nothing else, AI gives good starting points to further explore and here's the thing; AI is constantly learning and improving, every day. Chat gpt was just given access to Harvard's 1.3 million book digital library with many more lining up to follow suit.

If AI agrees with what I know from experience, I'll damn sure copy and paste, rather than typing out the same shit.

Bottom line is that @Eledin knows his shit about growing. If he says something, you can pretty much take it to the bank.

I find it humorous when people use technology, to deny technology...

From Yoga Vasistha:

"The remark of even a child is to be adhered to if it's in accordance with reason. But the remark of even Brahman himself, the creator of the world, should be rejected like a piece of straw, if it's not in accordance with reason"
 
#73
Eledin said:
I dont know it would be nice to compare what other people think because this is important and if Im wrong I wanna know it. All my years of growing Ive been using 6,2-6,5 ph for soil in my peat mixes and most of them seem to come at between 6 and 7ph anyway, 6 and 6,5 being more common. I know one brand (Covercrop) that has a wider range of 5,5 to 6,5 but I never tried it, also its the only one that Ive seen that comes with black peat even though most of it its blonde peat. The rest I used in the past and pressent like biobizz, atami and canna terra comes at 6ph or 6,5ph, and others than wont come to mind unless I specifically search for them.
EDIT: Also I didnt start growing organic, I started with the AN synthetic line and the adviced PH for peat soils was 6,2 as I posted previosly.
Click to expand...
Synthetic pH chart will show you 5.5 to 6.5... so that 6.2 sits right there, I wasn't questioning the 6-7 pH for soil grows. Those charts are excellent reference points for growers just starting out. I just don't agree peat by itself is soil. It's a great amendment to create a soil, I'm using it myself. But (my mix) is not 100% peat moss. Look up Coots mix. (Clackamas Coot Soil Mix) Popular name in the cannabis no till growing field. His mix ratios are not unique to him, but he popularized it to the masses, particularly to those in the cannabis culture.
 
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#74
As I told you before peat is considered an organic soil, it even has a name, histosol. Peat moss is nothing else than vegetal decomposed matter so its usually around 70%+ organic matter for peat soils. Then I use more organic matter to ammend it but that doesnt mean it wasnt a soil before that. They also sell them as soil in stores, not hydro. No mix is only peat moss as it would be way too acidic, all peat soil mixes are ammended unless you buy peat moss alone. Also I still cant find a chart for synthetic and organic, all I can find is soil and hydro. Please dont be annoyed by my stubborness but I cant say youre right when everywhere I see peat mixes labeled as soil and everywhere I read says the same.
 
#75
#76
It always starts with peat, worm castings and most of the times perlite. Thats a peat soil mix. Sometimes worm castings are not even added and its still a soil and sometimes worm castings are only 10% of the formula. As I said I do my super soil too and my base is peat like this recipe but I use different ammendments except for the kelp meal and neem seed meal. But they are additives, not soil per se, in my case. Soil conditioners and ammendments if you will. Here is what I use:
Soil: Canna terra professional, composition;
Peat and perlite; NPK 12-14-24; EC 1.0; PH 6.
Additives mixed with the soil: Extra perlite, coco coir, vermiculite, arlite, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, neem meal, dolomite lime, phosphoric rock dust, volcanic ash, worm castings, palm tree ash, bat guano, biochar.
 
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#77
Ph down from the official AN store in amazon:

Important information​

Directions

Use small amounts when adjusting the nutrient solution to affect the pH level, as required. Use to maintain the optimum pH level of 5.5 to 5.8 for hydroponics and 6.2 to 6.3 for sphagnum moss.

Amazon.com : Advanced Nutrients pH-Down Fertilizer, 10 L : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Amazon.com : Advanced Nutrients pH-Down Fertilizer, 10 L : Patio, Lawn & Garden
www.amazon.com
 
#78
Also Im talking about the mixes you buy with peat, they dont contain only peat I know, but thats what Im talking about. Peat mixes are considered soil, Ive never seen a peat product that comes only with peat because its way too acidic and it also needs to be fertilized. Of course you can buy only peat and do your soil but wont happen with weed brands that sell peat soil. I see where the confusion is, youre refeering to only peat whereas Im refeering to peat soil mixes, the ones everyone buys.
 
#79
FloridaMike said:
If anecdotal evidence (bro science) is so bad, why are you (or any of us) on this site. After all, it's loaded with bro science. There are as many ways to grow, as there are growers, with many of them being very successful.

I don't know about you, but I come here to learn from and interact with people who are better growers than me, and I'm capable of producing 10lbs of dank out of a 3x9' footprint. Some of what I do straight up defies conventional wisdom and what the pro's say; yet it works.

If nothing else, AI gives good starting points to further explore and here's the thing; AI is constantly learning and improving, every day. Chat gpt was just given access to Harvard's 1.3 million book digital library with many more lining up to follow suit.

If AI agrees with what I know from experience, I'll damn sure copy and paste, rather than typing out the same shit.

Bottom line is that @Eledin knows his shit about growing. If he says something, you can pretty much take it to the bank.

I find it humorous when people use technology, to deny technology...

From Yoga Vasistha:

"The remark of even a child is to be adhered to if it's in accordance with reason. But the remark of even Brahman himself, the creator of the world, should be rejected like a piece of straw, if it's not in accordance with reason"
Click to expand...
100% agree except for the fact that if I say something you should take it to the bank haha. Ive been wrong in the forum more than once, but I really appreciate your trust in me. I think it was just a missunderstanding, he is talking about only peat (most likely black peat) and Im talking about every peat mix formulated for weed (mostly blonde peat with sometimes other mixed in). Black peat is the closest to being inert so it could be used for hydro even if its not 100% inert and people prefeer other options generally speaking. Black peat is just a highly decomposed form of peat while blonde peat is the least decomposed form of peat.
 
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#80
Histosols are soils dominated by organic matter (peat soils range from 30 to 100% organic matter). They are commonly known as bogs, moors, peats, or mucks and form in areas with restricted drainage where plant material accumulates faster than it decomposes.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
  • Organic Matter Accumulation: Histosols form in environments like wetlands and bogs where waterlogging inhibits the decomposition of plant and animal remains.

  • High Organic Content: They contain at least 20-30% organic matter by weight. (Most peat contains way more than that, thats the minimum)

  • Low Bulk Density: Due to the high organic matter content, they have a low bulk density, often less than 0.3 g/cm³.

  • Ecological Importance: They store significant amounts of carbon, making them ecologically important.

  • Examples: Histosols are found in various regions, including northern Finland, western Scotland, central Canada, and the bogs and swamps of Ireland, Angola, Bangladesh, and Guyana.

  • Common Names: They are also referred to as peat, muck, or bog soils.

  • Management Challenges: Histosols can be difficult to manage due to their low weight-bearing capacity and subsidence when drained.
 
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