Wrinkly leaves SOS (climate controlled)

[Kindon67]

Please help. These Northern Lights (photo) were germinated seeds planted 16 days ago. My tent temperature is controlled at 78 day and 74 night with constant VPD of .8. Started VPD at .6 then .7 and .8 two days ago. Humidity is basically 67% average during day now. I’m using Miracle Grow in 5 gallon fabric pots. I’m using a CO2 bag but that probably needs replacing. Ok I’ll order that soon as I finish this post. I checked water PH and that is 6.3. I water every day but not entire pot yet. You can see pots are dry around the edge. Over-watering might be problem. I’m going to skip watering tomorrow and let soil dry out. Zoom in on the leaf on the left to see up close. I’m not sure what this is but one of you guys know exactly what it is. I’m sure of it. If you’re that person my ears are wide open. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

 

[Justlovetogrow]

Please help. These Northern Lights (photo) were germinated seeds planted 16 days ago. My tent temperature is controlled at 78 day and 74 night with constant VPD of .8. Started VPD at .6 then .7 and .8 two days ago. Humidity is basically 67% average during day now. I’m using Miracle Grow in 5 gallon fabric pots. I’m using a CO2 bag but that probably needs replacing. Ok I’ll order that soon as I finish this post. I checked water PH and that is 6.3. I water every day but not entire pot yet. You can see pots are dry around the edge. Over-watering might be problem. I’m going to skip watering tomorrow and let soil dry out. Zoom in on the leaf on the left to see up close. I’m not sure what this is but one of you guys know exactly what it is. I’m sure of it. If you’re that person my ears are wide open. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

You hit the nail on the head it’s overwatered crinkly puffy leaves are a tell tale sign leave it 3/4 days then saturate the whole pot then let it get real dry then repeat don’t water everyday good luck with it mate

 

[Kindon67]

You hit the nail on the head it’s overwatered crinkly puffy leaves are a tell tale sign leave it 3/4 days then saturate the whole pot then let it get real dry then repeat don’t water everyday good luck with it mate

Thanks for the response. I just want to add that I’m using Vivosun VS3000 led lights on 100% at 16”. I raised it to 18” last night when I noticed the wrinkles. Does that change your answer at all? Is this good height and intensity?

 

[Justlovetogrow]

Thanks for the response. I just want to add that I’m using Vivosun VS3000 led lights on 100% at 16”. I raised it to 18” last night when I noticed the wrinkles. Does that change your answer at all? Is this good height and intensity?

I’m not familiar with LED distance I’m still in the Stone Age using hps but 16inch at 100 percent seems excessive for this stage of growth but your plants don’t seem light stressed normally the leaves will cup upwards otherwise known as tacoing if the light to strong plus it be ripping mag out the leaves looking light between the veins of the leaves I reckon if you sort your watering out you be sweet

 

[Kindon67]

I’m not familiar with LED distance I’m still in the Stone Age using hps but 16inch at 100 percent seems excessive for this stage of growth but your plants don’t seem light stressed normally the leaves will cup upwards otherwise known as tacoing if the light to strong plus it be ripping mag out the leaves looking light between the veins of the leaves I reckon if you sort your watering out you be sweet

Thanks that’s what I’m going to do.

 

[Ninjadogma]

What folks keep telling me is there's some time released nitrogen in the Miracle Grow formula that will cause you potential feeding problems when you move to flower. This doesn't have anything to do with the issue you're posting about, just a heads up that if you run into some problems down the line, you'll have an idea of what might wind up working against you.

Plant does look saggy and puffy like it's waterlogged. Miracle grow has some moisture control built in but it only goes so far.. The loam should be good enough that if you let the soil dry some between waterings it should take on a perkier posture.

Since you're in Miracle Grow, I'm thinking one strategy you could do is let it veg good and long before you flip and deplete that time release nitrogen, or just plan on repotting before you flip.

 

[Kindon67]

I’m aware of the time-release properties of Miracle Grow. In the past I’ve burned through all the fertilizer 3/4 of the way through. Im using 5 gallon fabric pots with plenty of air circulation. Once plant canopy reaches so far I’ve had to water them every day about 3/4-1 gallon. Sounds crazy but trust me the pots are completely dry every day. Plants have been super happy too. I used to use self watering pots but that brought fungus gnats. So now I have shallow trays underneath and I top and bottom water. Works perfectly. I just think I got aggressive with the water too early this time. Anyhow, I said all that to show that the miracle grow does get flushed towards the end and plant starts showing need of fertilizer. So that tells me the nitrogen is getting used up. I do fertilize one or two times and then it’s time for bloom. This has been working well. Of course every grow has its own mind and being aware of plant talk is key. If slowing down on water doesn’t change anything in couple days then I will start thinking about nutrient burn or light intensity. The soil releasing too much nitrogen is definitely a possibility and I appreciate the input. Thank you.

 

[Ninjadogma]

I’m aware of the time-release properties of Miracle Grow. In the past I’ve burned through all the fertilizer 3/4 of the way through. Im using 5 gallon fabric pots with plenty of air circulation. Once plant canopy reaches so far I’ve had to water them every day about 3/4-1 gallon. Sounds crazy but trust me the pots are completely dry every day. Plants have been super happy too. I used to use self watering pots but that brought fungus gnats. So now I have shallow trays underneath and I top and bottom water. Works perfectly. I just think I got aggressive with the water too early this time. Anyhow, I said all that to show that the miracle grow does get flushed towards the end and plant starts showing need of fertilizer. So that tells me the nitrogen is getting used up. I do fertilize one or two times and then it’s time for bloom. This has been working well. Of course every grow has its own mind and being aware of plant talk is key. If slowing down on water doesn’t change anything in couple days then I will start thinking about nutrient burn or light intensity. The soil releasing too much nitrogen is definitely a possibility and I appreciate the input. Thank you.

A clawish sag that can't be traced back to watering is usually related to excess nitrogen. But based on how much you've said you've been watering, they likely just need better oxygen in the root area. It's okay if the soil gets dry, if the plant doesn't give you visible signs that it's thirsty then leave it be. Cannabis grows best with wet and dry cycles that offer the plant a microbial feedback loop when timed correctly.

 

[RGWD0202]

Thanks for the response. I just want to add that I’m using Vivosun VS3000 led lights on 100% at 16”. I raised it to 18” last night when I noticed the wrinkles. Does that change your answer at all? Is this good height and intensity?

I have that same light, that is way too much light. 50% at the most from 16”. Less water less light

 

[Kindon67]

Thanks for the response. Would you be more specific? Like what distance and what power level should I be using at different stages of growth. This light is in a 4x4 tent. Thanks

 

[JIMKSI64]

Vivosun light 100% 18 inches way high

 

[Kindon67]

Would you please explain this chart. Not sure what my goal is here. If I decrease intensity how does that change the chart? If I change height how does that change chart? What are my goals depending on stage of growth? I appreciate you taking time to respond. I just need to know what you are saying exactly. I did just purchase a diffuser for my phone that has the Photone app. So I’ll be able to dial it in. I just need to know what my goal is. Thanks

 

[Kindon67]

Please help. These Northern Lights (photo) were germinated seeds planted 16 days ago. My tent temperature is controlled at 78 day and 74 night with constant VPD of .8. Started VPD at .6 then .7 and .8 two days ago. Humidity is basically 67% average during day now. I’m using Miracle Grow in 5 gallon fabric pots. I’m using a CO2 bag but that probably needs replacing. Ok I’ll order that soon as I finish this post. I checked water PH and that is 6.3. I water every day but not entire pot yet. You can see pots are dry around the edge. Over-watering might be problem. I’m going to skip watering tomorrow and let soil dry out. Zoom in on the leaf on the left to see up close. I’m not sure what this is but one of you guys know exactly what it is. I’m sure of it. If you’re that person my ears are wide open. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

Here’s an update. So I followed both suggestions. I stopped watering for a few days and now I water completely, top and bottom, then let completely dry out (~4 days). I raised lights to 20” and decreased intensity to 75%. I also got iPhone diffuser and Phototone app. The ppfd is registering between 450-550. And remaining 78 deg/day and 74/night. Constant VPD of 8. Strain is Northern Lights. Planted germinated seed on 11/19. Soil is Miracle Grow so I am not fertilizing at all. This pic is from today. Still seeing wrinkling. Open to more suggestions. Thanks

 

[Ninjadogma]

Here’s an update. So I followed both suggestions. I stopped watering for a few days and now I water completely, top and bottom, then let completely dry out (~4 days). I raised lights to 20” and decreased intensity to 75%. I also got iPhone diffuser and Phototone app. The ppfd is registering between 450-550. And remaining 78 deg/day and 74/night. Constant VPD of 8. Strain is Northern Lights. Planted germinated seed on 11/19. Soil is Miracle Grow so I am not fertilizing at all. This pic is from today. Still seeing wrinkling. Open to more suggestions. ThanksView attachment 2577278

Sometimes your fan turned up too high or pointed directly toward a plant or oscillating over one can cause wrinkles in your leaves. Color is great, posture is satisfactory, can't tell clearly from image but looks like leaves have a little shine on them and if so you might be a little heavy on the Nitrogen but it's not making the plant unhappy from what I can tell. Leaves look puffy. If you watered today, that's completely normal too. Looks like some mid plant fade starting on the one plant in the back, just check that the EC isn't sitting too high with that one you ought to be good. I think you're back on track but if you're worried about the wrinkles, check circulation so you can eliminate as a potential culprit.

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

Would you please explain this chart. Not sure what my goal is here. If I decrease intensity how does that change the chart? If I change height how does that change chart? What are my goals depending on stage of growth? I appreciate you taking time to respond. I just need to know what you are saying exactly. I did just purchase a diffuser for my phone that has the Photone app. So I’ll be able to dial it in. I just need to know what my goal is. Thanks

The chart just shows how lights are most intense directly below their center. That mostly affects placement of plants. Decreasing the intensity doesn't change the fact that the light is most intense in the middle. There would just be less light everywhere. Regarding stage of growth, it's probably most important to know that plants can handle increasingly intense light as they age. (There are differences depending on whether the plant is photoperiod or autoflower, however.) The Photone website has good guidance for how to set the light.