Ice Box for A/C?

[Bobby Smith]

Here ya go:

http://www.invalid.com/grow-room-design-setup/298576-chiller-lieu-air-conditioning.html

There's a lengthy email exchange I had with a chick from Hydro Innovations where she makes some good points.

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

Greetings jerrybigbird, I would definitely suggest that you put your home made ice box on the other end of the lights.

When I first did mine I did: LIGHT-IceBox-ducting-LIGHT-IceBox-440cfm fan pulling air.

I had humidity problems and therefore condensation problems. I would get a leak in the middle of the ducting where droplets were pulled off the icebox from the inline fan and pooled in my insulated ducting. it was a tuff problem, and infact water would sometimes be on my hoods glass (i would assume some dropplets hit the bulb from time to time but it never exploded or anything like that thank goodness).

what i did was: LIGHT-Ducting-LIGHT-IceBox-Inline fan. (also got another dehumidifier aswell which helped me alot in controlling the environment and condensation). and used my second icebox as an air conditioner in another corner of my room, that i plug into my CHHC-1 controller and its awesome :).


or like RMCG says your water may be too cold (a lovely refreshing glass of ice water can be 32 degrees F) in theory if that was hooked to one 1k light and Icebox and the manufacture suggested fan (250cfm per 1k) than like i said in THEORY your exit air temp would be around 42-45F in my experience. (but also the ice water temp would raise without a chiller to maintain it) also that is probably lower than dew point so your fan will also be spitting some cool droplets out the end.


not sure i helped lol but just sharing my experiences incase anyone can benefit :)


Happy Pharming!

-Mystre.Pharmer

P.S. thanks for the link Bobby Smith, ill be sure to read it all when i have some time :)

 

[motta-tokka]

I have tested the icebox and was not very happy with it. I figure you would need a massive chiller to deal with the heat 1, and 2 turn it into cold as a a/c replacement. If you are not making this into a a/c replacement.. then WHY THE HELL ARE WE USING IT!! lol.. I tried everything under the sun for that baby..

Bottom line is if your not getting a HUGE chiller or the icebox, then get RID of the heat instead!!! Get another high CFM fan, sealed hoods, and vent them, still keeping your sealed room.

Efficient, the icebox is not.. My 6' inch Icebox for sale along with the Cooling feature of the Minigen (radiator with 1/2 inch ends) both worthless.

 

[RMCG]

What size chiller were you using it with?

HI recommends 1/2HP per 1k.

Were you not able to keep your water 10* below desired air temp?

Did you have your hydrogen hooked up to it too?

I would run the generator drain to waste. WAY too hot water coming out of that to try and cool.

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

I have tested the icebox and was not very happy with it. I figure you would need a massive chiller to deal with the heat 1, and 2 turn it into cold as a a/c replacement. If you are not making this into a a/c replacement.. then WHY THE HELL ARE WE USING IT!! lol.. I tried everything under the sun for that baby..

Bottom line is if your not getting a HUGE chiller or the icebox, then get RID of the heat instead!!! Get another high CFM fan, sealed hoods, and vent them, still keeping your sealed room.

Efficient, the icebox is not.. My 6' inch Icebox for sale along with the Cooling feature of the Minigen (radiator with 1/2 inch ends) both worthless.

How did you test it the Icebox? what size light and fan? did you use a chiller, what size? what temp did you keep the water at? what size water pump did you use? specifics of your 'test' would be great. you probably used a chiller thats not capable of hanging with the BTU's you were creating, just as you would properly size your A/C you need to properly size your chiller.

all you have to do is plan it properly and do some basic math and they'll work. most of the time when ill read about people not getting the Iceboxes to work properly or not liking them its because there numbers are all wrong. obviously a chiller rated at 6,000BTU (1/2 HP chiller) will NOT cool 4k of lights lol...

water cooling isn't for everyone nor for every situation. (and its definitely not cheap to get started) but in some cases typical A/C or adding an additional A/C unit to a house isn't possible or a stealthy enough option.

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

What size chiller were you using it with?

HI recommends 1/2HP per 1k.

Were you not able to keep your water 10* below desired air temp?

Did you have your hydrogen hooked up to it too?

I would run the generator drain to waste. WAY too hot water coming out of that to try and cool.

same questions as me RMCG haha ;)

i totally agree, the hydrogen is basically a tankless hot water heater with a few safety additions added for us growers. the water has potential to get VERY hot. I have a separate rez for my hydrogen. it would put too much strain on my chiller otherwise.

 

[Bobby Smith]

Has anyone tried running Ice Boxes off of a large, uncooled reservoir?

I have a crawlspace that stays cool year round (max 65Fish, min probably about 45 or 50F), and I was thinking of putting a 2-300 gallon reservoir down there and running some Ice Boxes - anyone have any idea if this would work?

Would probably use that more during the winter time as my only source of cooling so that I could use my portable AC as a dehumidifier (I'm guessing it won't run enough during the winter to dehumidify well, but time will tell on that).

So, anyone do anything similar?

 

[RMCG]

Has anyone tried running Ice Boxes off of a large, uncooled reservoir?

I have a crawlspace that stays cool year round (max 65Fish, min probably about 45 or 50F), and I was thinking of putting a 2-300 gallon reservoir down there and running some Ice Boxes - anyone have any idea if this would work?

Would probably use that more during the winter time as my only source of cooling so that I could use my portable AC as a dehumidifier (I'm guessing it won't run enough during the winter to dehumidify well, but time will tell on that).

So, anyone do anything similar?

Look earlier in this thread for a vid on the Heat Xtractor.

I would at the very least add one in to remove as much heat as possible before being dumped back in to the res.

 

[Bobby Smith]

Just looked; that's basically the opposite of what I'm trying to do.

My thinking is that (call it) 250 gallons of water at 50F gives me AMPLE cooling power to keep the grow cool (in the winter, for sure).

That water, even when warmed by the Ice Boxes from the grow room, would cool down so quickly and any heat coming off of them would quickly be overwhelmed by the cool crawlspace air.

Pretty sure that'll work - you know from my thread what my plan is, so depending on how this 14K portable works, might be implementing it.

 

[RMCG]

Watch it again.

It is not opposite of what you want to do.

If that is on the RETURN line of with hot water coming through and you blow AMBIENT air through it and OUT, it will COOL the water to near ambient, prior to going in to your 300g res to be slowly cooled by ambient air.

Think of it as like your radiator in your car, not like an icebox.

Essentially just 'speeding' up the process of sitting in a barrel and cooling off.

 

[Bobby Smith]

Watch it again.

It is not opposite of what you want to do.

If that is on the RETURN line of with hot water coming through and you blow AMBIENT air through it and OUT, it will COOL the water to near ambient, prior to going in to your 300g res to be slowly cooled by ambient air.

Think of it as like your radiator in your car, not like an icebox.

Essentially just 'speeding' up the process of sitting in a barrel and cooling off.

Lol, that's pretty funny - before I'd ever seen that video, I already had a similar idea to that using the Hydro Innovations reservoir coiler as a "pre-filter" (if you will) to remove some heat before it even got to the reservoir.

But again, not sure that's a necessity - even if the room raised the water temp 15 degrees (to 65F), it's still 20F below where I'd be trying to keep my room at.

Oh well, we can talk about it all we want but there's no way to know without actually doing it - stay tuned :cool0019:

 

[RMCG]

yeah, I guess if you are lucky enough to have ambient air temp lower than you need, it would be overkill.

If I had 100* water coming out of my system and blew 75* ambient air through it, its a hell of a lot less chiller than I would need otherwise.

I wish I knew what the 'pulldown' rating of a 6" and an 8" icebox was.

ie. if you have ewt of 100* and ambient of 80* what would the lwt be.
How does fan CFM affect that differential?

Any thermodynamics engineers in the house?

 

[fido]

I think we now see why fatman gets banned from forums...
:punch

he talks wrecklessly but i feel like this

the internet is for big girls and big boys. i can handle anything a person says about me on here! im fat? ok. i'm dumb? yoy is be write abouts dat. my feet smell bad? you bet they do!
whatever they come with it, i'm a big boy. i wont crumble from it.
i will never argue with a person on the net
but i will read and learn from said person even if he is a
small penis or a huge ass!
fuck how he says what he has to say. lol.
if the info stimulates ideas and shit, then i would never ban a man for acting like a cunt.
but thats just me.
john wayne would never ban a guy.
bruce lee would never ban a guy.
kennth starr WOULD ban a guy.

i never want to be a kenneth starr.

im fido
all dickheads:
u are safe from me because you are typing from yur home!
i wouldnt get mad. evil comments about me on the net? its a small thing to giant! lol. i'm trying to learn and love and get mf'ing money, my dood. thats what i would tell a net bully. i would not cry.. i would not let him see me cry anyways......



no diss to the mods that banned him
as i dont know the guy but i see that he talks slick out of his mouf. i see how that can get old pretty fast too.

no diss to the fellers whoese post i quoted.
i love ideas and love to see them get kicked around and see what works and what don't. when we are absent that, we are all the poorer for it.


thanks for the space to type
take care guys
fido

 

[fido]

plus the guy fatman types in all red letters fo heavens sake! hahahaha
he's TRYING to make guys mad!
just ignore him
he needs a girlfriend. the lack of things girls have that boys need will turn any nerd into a super angry nerd who types in red letters! hahahaha.
bring that faggot back.
i'll keep him in line. hahahahaha


fido

 

[RMCG]

No disrespect taken.

I agree for the most part. Need to get a thin skin starting in the sandbox, let alone an internet forum.

I can be abrasive as hell (in person and on the internet), but he was a bit over the top. Not in his ideas or thoughts, but the delivery that he gives it in.

No need to get all 'holier than thou' when exchanging ideas on the internet. Some people maybe just need to learn to argue properly and disagree more civilly.

 

[fido]

No disrespect taken.

I agree for the most part. Need to get a thin skin starting in the sandbox, let alone an internet forum.

I can be abrasive as hell (in person and on the internet), but he was a bit over the top. Not in his ideas or thoughts, but the delivery that he gives it in.

No need to get all 'holier than thou' when exchanging ideas on the internet. Some people maybe just need to learn to argue properly and disagree more civilly.

right on.
take care brother and keep sharing!
i learn from reading your stuff. im new and i suck
but i learn from reading your stuff and im getting better slowly!
fido from philly

 

[IndaVI]

Well due to the RIDICULOUS weather we have had recently, I had to forgo this little project and grab an A/C.

It wasn't me that caused the substation to blow up though.
:confused0059:

I will come back around to this shortly, as I f'ed up(in a good way). This location actually has a 1/3HP chiller and I would still like to test out immersion res chillers and water cooled air handlers.

Me too... I want to vent my air cooled lights outside the tent and house then use a chiller to cool my rdwc.... It would be cool to hook up an ice box to a fan( which could also be your circulating fan) to help control room temp, conserve co2 ect... I have a 4x8 tent with a 1000 and a 600... Unfortunately only a 1/10 ph chiller...

 

[IndaVI]

Hey fatman. yes, i know an A/C dehumidifies as well. but that's a good description for people who don't know



lol is that paragraph a recommendation for me? I would never put a window A/C in a sealed room. lol. that's silly. Have you seen my set up? you think saving $100 dollars is that big a deal when i spent as much as i did? and anyway one of my dehumidifiers cost under $100 dollars on sale (extra 20 i think otherwise, and its a good quality too, both are well built). your saying I can get a GOOD QUALITY window A/C unit for $33.33 dollars! awesome! sign me up for one for my office. (to be fair though i think i paid $160 (at most) for my analog hydrofarm dehumidifier (when you buy as much as i did at once, you get a pretty awesome hydro store discount lol)

why go cheap on your cooling!? I would never pick up a cheapo window a/c (or any cheapo A/C) and depend on it for my crop. what about when it breaks? i can run cold city water through my iceboxes if something horrible happens to my chiller (heaven forbid!) I would just need to close some valves and open some others and tada! cold water and A/C without a chiller. Having back up fail safes is comforting when people depend on you.




Since earlier you seemed to know how A/C works... the object of using water to cool is because: One, water is more efficient at extracting heat than air is. you seem fairly intelligent so you should know that. and secondly to have that water move the heat somewhere else more convenient. why would an A/C be more efficient for me? it would be WAY more inconvenient and would of been more expensive to replace or add another A/C to the house. You think I exhaust my heat into my house or something? i'm a little confused i think you might of read something wroung. and yes, My lights are MUCH closer to the plants than probably any air cooled persons set up is. my plants can touch the glass (they don't touch it though) and not be to hot! although they would get light burn from my 1k bulb lol. it's what running a perfect environment is all about.



things aren't always cut and dry. every situation is different maybe some people are stealthy, or some are located in a weird or small spot. not everyone is comfortable wiring stuff or putting things together themselves. they make products that have warranties and designed for specific functions for a reason. but good idea, although i would never do it. ChillKing i think makes chillers that are converted window A/C units.




LOL NOT "absurdly wasteful energy" you don't understand my set up fully, and that cool. I never really, even in my journals, explain/talk about what my basement is set up like or even what the door to my grow looks like for that matter lol. I own but i never take security lightly. I may be legal but it doesn't protect you from thieves. my set up is a lot more efficient than your thinking... i dont have to deal with the heat twice that would be moronic. like putting a big A/C unit in a basement to cool a room only to have to use the houses A/C to cool the basement A/C lol that makes no sense (u should put the bong down j/k hahahaha who am i kidding, pack another one ;) )

My system is awesome, and I love it. A sealed room isn't for everyone tho (nor is perpetual, which is what im trying now... its hard to have everything in order on time and rooted etc. etc.). it takes a lot of work to build and planning. I can get over 2 lbs a light and I still have room for improvement! and that's the truth :) (i still have nutrient things to dial in, i wanna switch brands here soon too) having perfect control over your environment makes it easier to grow a real quality product. people (including myself) depend on my buds for medicine, I want to be able to give em some good medicine.



lol when you actually start growing, you'll realize that spending an extra $200 bucks or whatever your trying to say i did, is worth the peace of mind! definitely. I use dehumidifiers to dehumidify, know why? its what they were designed to do, and i know they will do what they are supposed to. dealing with bud rot or powdery mildew isn't something I want to ever deal with. so spending a couple bucks ain't no thing when it keeps you from worrying.

My electric bill is just under $300 a month. that's with my grow, and a two bedroom 3 bath house. electric stove (and we cook ALL the time too AND bake a lot too!) T.v's, 1 desktop gaming pc (lotsa watts there) and a laptop, and a whole house A/C to boot. that's not bad in my opinion for growing ~2lbs a month AND 2 people living here. I give my meds out for a VERY ridiculously low reasonable price, and free if they can't afford it at the time. i'm not in this for the money. I love growing and smoking myself :)



lol this post got long lol oh well.


Happy Pharming!
-Mystre.Pharmer

You tha man!