BCrocker
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Name that deficiency!
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motherlode
@Rolln_J
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looks like any plant would when you cut nitrogen in flower to me - some of it is hard to say if its yellow or if its the hps light
is that a 8 week strain? they are nice and chunky
is that a 8 week strain? they are nice and chunky
BCrocker
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Possibly the light is too close? It is just good ol PK. We usually cut it down about day 58, so 8 weeks
K
kushtrees
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im with motherlode. It doesnt look like light bleaching or heat stress imo. When did you cut out the N? I once cut it out too early (like week 5 on a 9 weeker i think...) and by week 7 I had yellow leaves and the bottoms ones were dead and crumbly, tasty buds but it def affected yeild
L
LUDACRIS.
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Week 6 on flowering. Looks good to me flowering wise but the light is confusing me ??. The leaves WILL yellow and fall of once they have done thier job and its looking ok to me. Try some pics with the light off.
altitudefarmer
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I see a little N claw- do your leaves continue to hold that claw when N deficient?
I had similar problems in my grow when I was underfeeding- IMO, it was micronutrients lacking, esp Mg. If you have any leaf tips curling UP, it's usually Mg deficient (and usually caused by lockout- too much Potassium).
I think at least some of the discoloration and self-pruning is just due to them nearing the end of their cycle, also. Mine don't usually do that though until I begin flush.
What are you feeding them, and at what strength? The good farmers here can help you much better if you post your grow specs along with photos.
I had similar problems in my grow when I was underfeeding- IMO, it was micronutrients lacking, esp Mg. If you have any leaf tips curling UP, it's usually Mg deficient (and usually caused by lockout- too much Potassium).
I think at least some of the discoloration and self-pruning is just due to them nearing the end of their cycle, also. Mine don't usually do that though until I begin flush.
What are you feeding them, and at what strength? The good farmers here can help you much better if you post your grow specs along with photos.
BCrocker
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^^ some more pics there on a different topic.
Nutrients are, GH GMB, GreenPlanet Massive, GreenPlanet ProCal (calmg), GreenPlanet carbo powder. About 1400 ppm right now.
I see a few leaves curling up like that in the picture and the claw will stay throughout.
Week 6 feed is:
Micro = 5.6 mL / gallon
Gro = 1.8 mL / gallon
Bloom = 14 mL / gallon
Massive = 11.5 mL / gallon (label says use 20mL)
ProCal = 9 mL / gallon
So it seems like that should be enough N, should it be cut out further?
Threw in a picture of electrical panel for fun. ;)
Nutrients are, GH GMB, GreenPlanet Massive, GreenPlanet ProCal (calmg), GreenPlanet carbo powder. About 1400 ppm right now.
I see a few leaves curling up like that in the picture and the claw will stay throughout.
Week 6 feed is:
Micro = 5.6 mL / gallon
Gro = 1.8 mL / gallon
Bloom = 14 mL / gallon
Massive = 11.5 mL / gallon (label says use 20mL)
ProCal = 9 mL / gallon
So it seems like that should be enough N, should it be cut out further?
Threw in a picture of electrical panel for fun. ;)
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L
LUDACRIS.
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BCrocker
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I'm not 100% sure on how to calculate this correctly, can you let me know?
altitudefarmer
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Man, I'm totally unfamiliar with GreenPlanet. That girl's bigger than I thought, though, too. At 1400 ppm, your nutes should be enough. I'm guessing there's a little lockout issue going on somewhere. It would be either due to pH or excess Potassium; and those girls have plenty Nitrogen. It's Mg def if I ever saw it, if it's not root aphids. At this stage you're better off mixing 8-10 ml of epsom salts in a gallon of water and foliar feed the girls, rather than trying to add Mg to the soil.
LUDA was asking about your nutes- what are the numbers on the different ingredients (they'll all have numbers to indicate the strength of the solution, like 5-10-5, 12-6-6, 0-54-38, etc)
I hope this helps. If you have a few bugs flying around that look like gnats, you may want to check out Lil Miss Lone's thread concerning root aphids.
In any case, a slight deficiency this late will only decrease your yield, not ruin the whole crop. Baby those girls right up until you hack 'em down...lol
Peace
btw, that panel shot is pretty awesome. I get half a chub seeing that much electric available for a grow...hahahahaha
LUDA was asking about your nutes- what are the numbers on the different ingredients (they'll all have numbers to indicate the strength of the solution, like 5-10-5, 12-6-6, 0-54-38, etc)
I hope this helps. If you have a few bugs flying around that look like gnats, you may want to check out Lil Miss Lone's thread concerning root aphids.
In any case, a slight deficiency this late will only decrease your yield, not ruin the whole crop. Baby those girls right up until you hack 'em down...lol
Peace
btw, that panel shot is pretty awesome. I get half a chub seeing that much electric available for a grow...hahahahaha
L
LUDACRIS.
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BCrocker
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I'm going to be scrapping the GreenPlanet line after this round. No more Massive and no more Pro-Cal. I will replace with KoolBloom most likely, and GH's CalMG
There is plenty of N, it hasn't be taken out yet.
Feeding is:
GH Micro = 5 - 0 - 1
GH Gro = 2 - 1 - 6
GH Bloom = 0 - 5 - 4
The Massive is 1 - 1.5 - 28
Pro-Cal = 1.1 - 0 - 0
I have gnats at another location, but nothing at this one. The small plants under the 600's have a few mites. I dusted some dia-earth on them, and squished the fukrs.
Will spray with some epsom.
Should I be cutting out the Gro and lower the Micro ? too much N? I haven't cut it out at all. Never have really for PK.
L
LUDACRIS.
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Do you feed them a mix of all these nutes at once ??. So i can work out the numbers. You are not saying what the overall N.P.K values you are feeding your plants. Epsons will not fix that as its for an Mg deff.
:worried
BCrocker
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140 Gallon res, the last two feeds was this:
All at once, nutrient mix of.
Micro 700 mL
Gro 252 mL
Bloom 1960 mL
Massive 1610 mL
Pro-CAL 1260 mL
I am not sure how to properly get the sum of the NPK values? Can you explain?
All at once, nutrient mix of.
Micro 700 mL
Gro 252 mL
Bloom 1960 mL
Massive 1610 mL
Pro-CAL 1260 mL
I am not sure how to properly get the sum of the NPK values? Can you explain?
L
LUDACRIS.
Guest
Application: Fertilising
To grow to a large size, marijuana requires a steady supply of nutrients. These can be added to the soil before planting or anytime during growth. Bulk fertilisers are added while the soil is mixed, as described in section 6. These include manures, composts, humus, and concentrated fertilisers, such as rose food. Once the plants are growing, never condition or mulch indoor soils with bulk fertilisers. they promote moulds and fungi and attract other pests to the garden. Concentrated fertilisers can damage the plants if they come in direct contact with the stem or roots.
While the plants are growing, nutrients are given in solution; they are dissolved in water, and the plants are watered as usual. Soluble fertilisers can be either organic or inorganic (chemical), and come in a wide range of concentrations and proportions of nutrients. Two organic fertilisers are liquid manure (about 1.5-1.0-1.5) and fish emulsion ((Some fish emulsion may contain whale by-products.)) (about 5-1-1). Chemical fertilisers commonly may have 20-20-20 or 5-10-5, or may contain only one nutrient, such as 16-0-0.
A 10-5-5 fertiliser is 20 percent soluble nutrients and 80 percent inert ingredients. a 30-10-10 has 50 percent available nutrients and 50 percent inert ingredients. There is approximately the same amount of N in one tsp. of 30-10-10 as in three tsps. of 10-5-5.
Actually, you can almost use any fertiliser, but the nitrogen content should be proportionately high, and there should be some P and L also present. For example, a 20-20-20 would work fine, as would a 12-6-6 or a 3-4-3, but not a 2-10-10 or a 5-10-0.
How much fertiliser to use and how often to fertilise depend primarily on the fertility of the soil and the size of the container relative to the size of the plant. Small plants in large pots usually do not need to be fertilised. Even in small pots, most plants do not need to be fertilised for at least the first month.
As the plants grow, they take nutrients from the soil, and these must be replaced to maintain vigorous growth. During the vegetative stage, even plants in large pots generally require some fertilising, particularly with N.
The rate of growth of indoor plants is usually limited by the amount of light and space, once adequate nutrients are supplied. At this point, an increase in nutrients will not increase growth. Your goal is to supply the plants with their nutritional needs without overfertilising and thus toxifying the soil.
Most fertilisers are designed for home use and have instructions for fertilising houseplants. Marijuana is not a houseplant, and it requires more nutrients than houseplants. The extra nutrients that it needs may be supplied by the use of large pots and a fertile soil mixture. In many cases, you will need to fertilise only in the dosages recommended on fertiliser packages for houseplants. For instance, Rapid-Gro (23-19-17) is popular among marijuana growers; use one tablespoon per gallon of water every two weeks.
A typical program for fertilising might be to fertilise during the fifth week of growth and every two weeks thereafter until flowering. Then discontinue fertilising (or give at one-half concentration) unless the plants show a definite need for nutrients. It is better to fertilise with a more diluted solution more often than to give concentrated doses at longer intervals. (For instance, if instructions call for one tablespoon of fertiliser per gallon once a month, use one-quarter tablespoon per gallon once a week.)
Make sure that a fertiliser is completely dissolved in the water before you apply it. Put the recommended amount of fertiliser in a clear glass bottle and mix with about one cup of water. Shake vigorously and then allow it to settle. If any particles of fertiliser are not dissolved, shake again before adding the rest of the water. If you have difficulty getting all the fertiliser to dissolve, first add hot top water. If the fertiliser still does not completely dissolve, you should use another fertiliser.
Never fertilise a dry soil or dry Soilless medium. If the medium is dry, first water with about one-half quart of plain water per pot. Let the pots sit for about 15 minutes so that the water is evenly dispersed in the pot. Then fertilise as usual.
It is difficult to give instruction for fertilising that will cover all garden situations. You want to supply the plant with its nutritive needs, but overfertilising con toxify the soil. Fertilising according to instructions for houseplants (both in frequency and concentration) should not toxify the soil. However, the plants may sometimes require more frequent or more concentrated fertilising. A good way to judge the plant's needs is not to fertilise one plant, double the fertiliser of another plant, and give the rest of the plants their normal dose. If the unfertilised plant grows more slowly, or shows symptoms of deficiencies, then probably all the plant are depending on soluble fertilisers and must be fertilised regularly. If the plants receiving the double dose grows faster than the other plants, increase the other plants' supply also. On the other hand, if there is little difference among the plants, then the soil is providing the plants with enough nutrients, and they either should not be fertilised or should be fertilised with a less-concentrated solution.
Because they are grown in a relatively small area, it is easy to overfertilise indoor plants. When plants are vigorous, look healthy, and are growing steadily, don't be anxious to fertilise, particularly if you have already fertilised several times with soluble fertilisers. Slow growth or symptoms of deficiencies clearly indicate the need for fertilising.
Overfertilising
In an effort to do the best for their plants, some people actually do the worst. Overfertilising puts excessive amounts of nutrients in the soil, causing toxic soil conditions. Excessive amounts of one nutrient can interfere with the uptake of another nutrient, or change normal plant-soil relations. Since it takes time for a build-up to occur high concentrations of nutrients generally encourage excellent growth until the toxic level is reached.
It takes less N than other nutrients to toxify the soil; hence there is less margin for error when using N. Too much N changes the osmotic balance between plant and soil. Instead of water being drawn into the plant, water is drawn away and the plant dehydrates. The leaves feel limp even though the plant is well watered. The plant will soon die. This tips of the leaves die first and very rapidly the leaves change colour, usually to gold, but sometimes to a brown or green-grey. This change in the plants is faster, more dramatic, and more serious than for any kind of nutrient deficiency.
You can save the plants by immediately leaching the pots as soon as the condition is recognised. Place the pots outdoors or in a sink or bathtub. Discard the top inch or two of loose dirt. Run lukewarm water through the soil until a gallon of water for each two gallons of soil has passed through each pot. The leaves recover turgor in one or two days if the treatment works.
Foliar Feeding
Foliar feeding ((Nitrogen fertilisers are usually NO3 (nitrate) or NO2 (nitrite), substances which are also used to preserve food. They have been shown to undergo reactions to form carcinogenic substances (nitrosamines). As with eating food treated with nitrates and nitrites (hot dogs, sandwich meats, etc.), there is a possibility that such substances might be ingested by eating or smoking foliar-fed plants.)) (spraying the leaves with fertiliser) is a good way to give the plants nutrients without building up the amount of soluble substances in the soil. After the first month, foliar feed the plants with, for example, fish emulsion or a chemical fertiliser. Use any fertiliser that states it can be used for foliar feeding even if it says "not recommended for foliar feeding houseplants." Use a fine-mist sprayer, such as a clean Windex or Fantastik bottle. Dilute the fertiliser according to directions (fish emulsion at one tablespoon per gallon) and spray both sides of the leaves. When foliar feeding, you should spray the plants with plain water the next day, to dissolve unabsorbed nutrients and clean the plants.
Foliar spraying is also a good way to treat plants suffering from nutrient deficiencies. Some nutrient deficiencies actually are caused by the soil's chemistry, rather than by the absence of the nutrient in the soil. Addition of the necessary nutrient to the soil may not cure the plants' problem, because the nutrient becomes locked in the soil, or its uptake may be limited by high concentrations of other elements present in the soil. Foliar feeding is direct, and if the plant's deficiency symptoms do not begin to clear up, then the diagnosis is probably incorrect.
(by M+E rose).
To grow to a large size, marijuana requires a steady supply of nutrients. These can be added to the soil before planting or anytime during growth. Bulk fertilisers are added while the soil is mixed, as described in section 6. These include manures, composts, humus, and concentrated fertilisers, such as rose food. Once the plants are growing, never condition or mulch indoor soils with bulk fertilisers. they promote moulds and fungi and attract other pests to the garden. Concentrated fertilisers can damage the plants if they come in direct contact with the stem or roots.
While the plants are growing, nutrients are given in solution; they are dissolved in water, and the plants are watered as usual. Soluble fertilisers can be either organic or inorganic (chemical), and come in a wide range of concentrations and proportions of nutrients. Two organic fertilisers are liquid manure (about 1.5-1.0-1.5) and fish emulsion ((Some fish emulsion may contain whale by-products.)) (about 5-1-1). Chemical fertilisers commonly may have 20-20-20 or 5-10-5, or may contain only one nutrient, such as 16-0-0.
A 10-5-5 fertiliser is 20 percent soluble nutrients and 80 percent inert ingredients. a 30-10-10 has 50 percent available nutrients and 50 percent inert ingredients. There is approximately the same amount of N in one tsp. of 30-10-10 as in three tsps. of 10-5-5.
Actually, you can almost use any fertiliser, but the nitrogen content should be proportionately high, and there should be some P and L also present. For example, a 20-20-20 would work fine, as would a 12-6-6 or a 3-4-3, but not a 2-10-10 or a 5-10-0.
How much fertiliser to use and how often to fertilise depend primarily on the fertility of the soil and the size of the container relative to the size of the plant. Small plants in large pots usually do not need to be fertilised. Even in small pots, most plants do not need to be fertilised for at least the first month.
As the plants grow, they take nutrients from the soil, and these must be replaced to maintain vigorous growth. During the vegetative stage, even plants in large pots generally require some fertilising, particularly with N.
The rate of growth of indoor plants is usually limited by the amount of light and space, once adequate nutrients are supplied. At this point, an increase in nutrients will not increase growth. Your goal is to supply the plants with their nutritional needs without overfertilising and thus toxifying the soil.
Most fertilisers are designed for home use and have instructions for fertilising houseplants. Marijuana is not a houseplant, and it requires more nutrients than houseplants. The extra nutrients that it needs may be supplied by the use of large pots and a fertile soil mixture. In many cases, you will need to fertilise only in the dosages recommended on fertiliser packages for houseplants. For instance, Rapid-Gro (23-19-17) is popular among marijuana growers; use one tablespoon per gallon of water every two weeks.
A typical program for fertilising might be to fertilise during the fifth week of growth and every two weeks thereafter until flowering. Then discontinue fertilising (or give at one-half concentration) unless the plants show a definite need for nutrients. It is better to fertilise with a more diluted solution more often than to give concentrated doses at longer intervals. (For instance, if instructions call for one tablespoon of fertiliser per gallon once a month, use one-quarter tablespoon per gallon once a week.)
Make sure that a fertiliser is completely dissolved in the water before you apply it. Put the recommended amount of fertiliser in a clear glass bottle and mix with about one cup of water. Shake vigorously and then allow it to settle. If any particles of fertiliser are not dissolved, shake again before adding the rest of the water. If you have difficulty getting all the fertiliser to dissolve, first add hot top water. If the fertiliser still does not completely dissolve, you should use another fertiliser.
Never fertilise a dry soil or dry Soilless medium. If the medium is dry, first water with about one-half quart of plain water per pot. Let the pots sit for about 15 minutes so that the water is evenly dispersed in the pot. Then fertilise as usual.
It is difficult to give instruction for fertilising that will cover all garden situations. You want to supply the plant with its nutritive needs, but overfertilising con toxify the soil. Fertilising according to instructions for houseplants (both in frequency and concentration) should not toxify the soil. However, the plants may sometimes require more frequent or more concentrated fertilising. A good way to judge the plant's needs is not to fertilise one plant, double the fertiliser of another plant, and give the rest of the plants their normal dose. If the unfertilised plant grows more slowly, or shows symptoms of deficiencies, then probably all the plant are depending on soluble fertilisers and must be fertilised regularly. If the plants receiving the double dose grows faster than the other plants, increase the other plants' supply also. On the other hand, if there is little difference among the plants, then the soil is providing the plants with enough nutrients, and they either should not be fertilised or should be fertilised with a less-concentrated solution.
Because they are grown in a relatively small area, it is easy to overfertilise indoor plants. When plants are vigorous, look healthy, and are growing steadily, don't be anxious to fertilise, particularly if you have already fertilised several times with soluble fertilisers. Slow growth or symptoms of deficiencies clearly indicate the need for fertilising.
Overfertilising
In an effort to do the best for their plants, some people actually do the worst. Overfertilising puts excessive amounts of nutrients in the soil, causing toxic soil conditions. Excessive amounts of one nutrient can interfere with the uptake of another nutrient, or change normal plant-soil relations. Since it takes time for a build-up to occur high concentrations of nutrients generally encourage excellent growth until the toxic level is reached.
It takes less N than other nutrients to toxify the soil; hence there is less margin for error when using N. Too much N changes the osmotic balance between plant and soil. Instead of water being drawn into the plant, water is drawn away and the plant dehydrates. The leaves feel limp even though the plant is well watered. The plant will soon die. This tips of the leaves die first and very rapidly the leaves change colour, usually to gold, but sometimes to a brown or green-grey. This change in the plants is faster, more dramatic, and more serious than for any kind of nutrient deficiency.
You can save the plants by immediately leaching the pots as soon as the condition is recognised. Place the pots outdoors or in a sink or bathtub. Discard the top inch or two of loose dirt. Run lukewarm water through the soil until a gallon of water for each two gallons of soil has passed through each pot. The leaves recover turgor in one or two days if the treatment works.
Foliar Feeding
Foliar feeding ((Nitrogen fertilisers are usually NO3 (nitrate) or NO2 (nitrite), substances which are also used to preserve food. They have been shown to undergo reactions to form carcinogenic substances (nitrosamines). As with eating food treated with nitrates and nitrites (hot dogs, sandwich meats, etc.), there is a possibility that such substances might be ingested by eating or smoking foliar-fed plants.)) (spraying the leaves with fertiliser) is a good way to give the plants nutrients without building up the amount of soluble substances in the soil. After the first month, foliar feed the plants with, for example, fish emulsion or a chemical fertiliser. Use any fertiliser that states it can be used for foliar feeding even if it says "not recommended for foliar feeding houseplants." Use a fine-mist sprayer, such as a clean Windex or Fantastik bottle. Dilute the fertiliser according to directions (fish emulsion at one tablespoon per gallon) and spray both sides of the leaves. When foliar feeding, you should spray the plants with plain water the next day, to dissolve unabsorbed nutrients and clean the plants.
Foliar spraying is also a good way to treat plants suffering from nutrient deficiencies. Some nutrient deficiencies actually are caused by the soil's chemistry, rather than by the absence of the nutrient in the soil. Addition of the necessary nutrient to the soil may not cure the plants' problem, because the nutrient becomes locked in the soil, or its uptake may be limited by high concentrations of other elements present in the soil. Foliar feeding is direct, and if the plant's deficiency symptoms do not begin to clear up, then the diagnosis is probably incorrect.
(by M+E rose).
BCrocker
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Good read, thx!
motherlode
@Rolln_J
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nice post LUDACRIS
L
LUDACRIS.
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altimood
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I'm running Massive and Green Planet Finisher. Seems to be working well but I'm running them in conjunction with Cutting Edge 3 part. I'm pretty happy with it. Maybe its the mix of GH with the GP. BUT: when people have weird phantom deficiencies happen that are perplexing, check your roots for root aphids. Necrosis, weird yellowing of leaves, could be RA's. For your sake I hope its not. But check it out. Good luck.
Also, you want to check your ppm's with Massive. Sometimes you need to come down from 20 ml. Overferting is common with all this stuff.
Also, you want to check your ppm's with Massive. Sometimes you need to come down from 20 ml. Overferting is common with all this stuff.
M
mrdizzle
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IMO its a tad of overfert/lockout. When hand watering, sometimes we hit them a little too hot when the medium is a little too dry, can cause some root friage and hurts nute uptake, causing plant to feed off its leaves
being too close too,the bulbs seems I always have an area of a plant that is really close to a bulb yellow fast
being too close too,the bulbs seems I always have an area of a plant that is really close to a bulb yellow fast
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