What's your cooling setup?

[Chillville]

In an effort to help people size their systems I think it would be great if members would post some details about their existing cooling systems that are working for them. My background is in commercial water-cooling design from everything from cutting lasers, plastic molding machines, general a/c for hospitals and hotels, restuarants, commercial grow rooms etc....this week I even sized a chiller system for a horse trainer to cool a 500 gallon tank to 35F to exercise horses in lol. On the other hand I do not have a lot of experience with standard A/C systems for gardens outside my southern state....which today is on target for 107 degrees. Its all numbers for me, I know what creates BTU and how much which helps me size systems but many variables still exist. Variables like outdoor temps, placement of the compressor unit, humidity levels, seer rating of the a/c, and of course the amount of equipment that needs to be cooled. I know that an a/c system that works for someone up north will not work for us down here, so in other words outdoor climate must be considered heavily in the equation. If you want to play along it would be helpful if you answered these questions.

1. Size of room?
2. How well insulated is it?
3. Total wattage in the room(s)?
4. Burning gas for Co2?
5. Ballast in the room? If so digital of magnetic?
6. Dehu? What size? How often is it running?
7. What size, brand, and seer rating is your a/c or chiller system?
8. How often does it cycle (turn on and off)?
9. What is the highest and average outdoor temps? What the climate like?
10. What is your grow room temps set at?
11. Is the system able to maintain the temp setpoint through the entire light cycle?

I know that's lots of questions but these are all factors that need to be considered. Thanks to anyone who is willing to share.

 

[Sea Of Green]

1. Size of room? ~ 12.5' x 9.5' x 10'.
2. How well insulated is it? Very poorly, no insulating materials used at all that I'm aware of.
3. Total wattage in the room(s)? 1000W MH x 1, 12V computer fans x 6.
4. Burning gas for Co2? No, but I sleep in there(bedroom with a grow cabinet/closet). Does that count?
5. Ballast in the room? If so digital of magnetic? Yes, a magnetic 1000W MH from the 70's, still running strong.
6. Dehu? What size? How often is it running? NA.
7. What size, brand, and seer rating of your a/c? 5000 BTU window unit, WESTPOINTE™, 9.7 EER.
8. How often does it cycle (turn on and off)? Depends on outside temps. When above ~95°F it never shuts off.
9. What is the highest and average outdoor temps? What the climate like? I don't need to run it unless the outdoor high temps are above ~65°F(or for about 3-4 months a year at best). And it's kept the room sufficiently cooled with outdoor high temps of up to ~105°F. But it definitely struggles to, and it actually gets a degree hotter in there on those super hot days than I'd like(maybe a couple weeks worth in a year). I got lucky though, and it turns out a 5000 BTU unit is just barely enough to work for my setup. The climate here is moderate, only one reliably scorching hot and bone dry month a year, sometimes two. Summers are usually cooler and wetter than average for the surrounding areas even, and nationally, for sure. Technically it fits the Marine west coast climate classification best.
10. What is your grow room temps set at? Max 26°C/Min 17°-19°C, oddly enough I use the Celsius scale indoors. And the min is typically around 15°C in winter. It's colder at night in the winter, of course, but I don't let it drop too low before switching on the heater to keep it above 14°C atleast.
11. Is the system able to maintain the temp setpoint through the entire light cycle? Yes, and no. It will if it's the same outside temperature from day to day. Other than that I need to make sure it's set correctly everyday for that day's high temp. Where it needs the dial to be set to maintain the temp setpoint is very dependant on how hot it is outside. Meaning, it really doesn't have a temp setpoint. Which sucks...but it's a hell of a lot better than nothing!

 

[blazer]

What's up chillville thanks for sharing the hvacr knowledge im a service tech/installer myself its a great trade.its cool that there is a helpdesk for help on engineering(designing)a system peace
Blazer

 

[Chillville]

SOG thanks for sharing your info.

What's up Blazer, great to have you around. I'm glad that there are a couple of HVAC installers here to help answer questions. Cannabis John seems to have a great thread going in grow room design too, hopefully both you guys will hang around here too :)

 

[Gaval]

Ok, well I have just built a 10x8x8 room in the garage all insulated dry wall on the inside as well as the out, I have also caulked every seam in the room as well as epoxied the cement floors. I have bought a bryant 56k btu furnace with a matching 2 ton bryant central air unit. I will be running 4 raptor 1000 watt un air cooled as well as 2 horizontal 1000 watts in the room. ballasts will be on outside of room co2 will be pumped from a tank to minimize the heat. The temperature outside is never the same michigan itll be 70 for one day an 100 the next lets just say around 80 degrees. I will be keeping the room at 80 degrees while the co2 is being ran. Do you think this 2 ton system will run constant instead of shutting off an on constantly ?

 

[TrichromeFan]

1. Size of room?

10' x 10' x 7'H

2. How well insulated is it?

Like an eskimo's behind. Two of the room's walls are exterior. Those are double 2x4 deep with 2 layers of R-13 inside. The 2 interior walls are 2x6 with R-19 inside. The ceiling has R-30. The floor has 2" Thermasheath R12.9 foam sheet. Oh, and the interior walls and ceiling are also wrapped in reflectix.

3. Total wattage in the room(s)?

4000 watts. Adjust-a-wing open reflectors. Hortilux dual arc bulbs.

4. Burning gas for Co2?

yup, 4 burner C.A.P. unit.

5. Ballast in the room? If so digital of magnetic?

In another room. Digital to boot.

6. Dehu? What size? How often is it running?

70 pint Frigidaire. Runs mostly at night, all night pretty much. Later in flower an extra 50 pint was added last run to manage night time humidity.

7. What size, brand, and seer rating of your a/c?

Friedrich 24,200btu, 18.0 seer, inverter model mini split

8. How often does it cycle (turn on and off)?

Hard to say with the inverter. It just blows all around the room all the time with the swing, and ramps up power when it needs to apply more cooling kickass.

9. What is the highest and average outdoor temps? What the climate like?

It gets hot here, although not so bad this year. High 90's at best so far. It will get into the 110 range for a touch here and there in a normal summer. This system has yet to see that level of heat, but I have absolute faith it can handle it.

10. What is your grow room temps set at?

I run my canopy at 78. That is being measured currently about The AC thermostat is set at 74 to get that. At night since there is no direct light involved, the temps go to 74 everywhere in there. Garden time day is night as well.

11. Is the system able to maintain the temp setpoint through the entire light cycle?

Yep. It starts out at 74 then slowly comes up to 78 where it sits till sun down.

I would definitely suggest insulation to everybody. Cheap and easy no matter what kind of AC they use, the room will be more efficient to keep cool. And I am stoked on my Friedrich. Works great, and the outside unit
is stealth quiet.

Thanks chillville for putting together the cooling forum section, and this fun thread.

-TF

 

[Chillville]

Ok, well I have just built a 10x8x8 room in the garage all insulated dry wall on the inside as well as the out, I have also caulked every seam in the room as well as epoxied the cement floors. I have bought a bryant 56k btu furnace with a matching 2 ton bryant central air unit. I will be running 4 raptor 1000 watt un air cooled as well as 2 horizontal 1000 watts in the room. ballasts will be on outside of room co2 will be pumped from a tank to minimize the heat. The temperature outside is never the same michigan itll be 70 for one day an 100 the next lets just say around 80 degrees. I will be keeping the room at 80 degrees while the co2 is being ran. Do you think this 2 ton system will run constant instead of shutting off an on constantly ?

Sorry for the late response, I was out of town last week. I would not recommend only a 2 ton for 6k watts. You are creating 24k BTU of heat with the lighting and only a 24k BTU in cooling at best. I would either suggest upgrading to a 3 ton or switching/dimming to 600 watts instead. You are no doubt going to have trouble when the temps get above 85.

 

[Chillville]

Tfan thanks for posting your setup, good stuff.

C'mon guys! Over 200 people have read this thread but not many people posting! Do you guys not have cooling systems? :)

 

[cemchris]

1. Size of room?
5.9 ft x 9.8 ft. Just enough for 2 4x4's.

2. How well insulated is it?
Very very well. Spray foamed. Door injected. Back wall of garage injected. Ceiling above sprayed. Concrete floor.

3. Total wattage in the room(s)?
3.6K - 6 600 watters. 2 are currently off. Vegging.

4. Burning gas for Co2?
Burning Gas. 2 Burner Sentinel.

5. Ballast in the room? If so digital of magnetic?
Yes. Digi. Might be moved out if needed.

6. Dehu? What size? How often is it running?
Yes but not on right now. 50 pint LG i believe. Staying about 50-60%

7. What size, brand, and seer rating of your a/c?
24K Comfort Aire Mini Split. Non inverted (Im a cheap ass) 13 Seer

8. How often does it cycle (turn on and off)?
Havent really noticed. It does cycle on and off but not to often. Outside is whisper quite.

9. What is the highest and average outdoor temps? What the climate like?
Right now just got done with 42 days of above 100. Summer is almost always above 100. Deep Deep south. Hot

10. What is your grow room temps set at?
Run the room at 74. Under the lights is 76.

11. Is the system able to maintain the temp setpoint through the entire light cycle?
Oh Yea. Ac is set at 72 with the fan on low.

 

[Chillville]

cemchris thanks for posting, with that many days above 100 I think you and I are in the same state....we have had 38 days so far this year over 100.

 

[Gaval]

Sorry for the late response, I was out of town last week. I would not recommend only a 2 ton for 6k watts. You are creating 24k BTU of heat with the lighting and only a 24k BTU in cooling at best. I would either suggest upgrading to a 3 ton or switching/dimming to 600 watts instead. You are no doubt going to have trouble when the temps get above 85.

no shit... the guy i bought the central air unit says it was a 36k btu, maybe i was swindled lol so i could have 6 - 600 watts in there unvented an itll be good?
knew i shoulda bought the 3 ton off em instead. I asked around on other hvac threads an they told me a 3ton would shut off an on too much an would drain the power even more....

 

[Chillville]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I think that your new system should be able to handle the (6) 600's through even the worst part of the summer. If it were me I would probably buy dimmable ballasts and use 600 watt lights through the summer and as soon as it gets cold there start switching out the 600's for 1000's and see what it can handle then. You will probably end up being able to use (3) 600's and (3) 1000's in the winter time.

 

[Chillville]

I wanted to comment on oversizing cooling systems, what people told you about the 3 ton using more electricity isn't exactly true. Let's say I need exactly a 2 ton cooling system. With this cooling setup my compressor never shuts off while the lights are on. Lets say I change this system out for a 4 ton and now my compressor will run 50% of the time. For the most part these 2 a/c's will use the same amount of electricity per hour....the larger one uses more power but it runs less. There is one factor here though that I need to mention. Startup amperage for a compressor is different from the running amperage of a compressor. Running amperage is usually 60% of the startup BTW. Its not a considerable difference because these startup amps are only for a brief moment. So with our example if you have a 2 ton compressor running constantly vs a 4 ton running 50% of an hour the 2 ton will use slightly less power but its negligible. A 3 ton would have ran approximately 75% of the hour which is what I recommend...this gives time for the equipment to cool off between cycles extending the life of the cooling system.

With that said there is a significant reason not to oversize an a/c and that is for dehumidification purposes. A/c's can only dehumidify while the compressor is running and although you are dehumidifying more with a larger unit since it doesn't run as much you won't get as much condensation out of it.

I know that you have already purchased and a/c so this infor won't help you but a chiller systems do not work that way. I can design a chiller system using a 5 ton when only needing a 2 ton that works perfectly. With chiller systems you are able to add water volume and store cooling energy allowing you to dehumidify without the compressor running. Also with a larger water volume can you adjust the compressor run time so that it doesn't cycle on and off to often.

 

[Giddeon]

1. Size of room?
11' x 15' ......11' x 10' used for growing 5' x 11' for AC and environmental control aera

2. How well insulated is it?
LOL well... isn't 1/8" hardboard walls with reflectix

3. Total wattage in the room(s)?
9600 watts 8 - 1k's, 2 - 600's and a 400 mh

4. Burning gas for Co2?
Yes, I have a LP-36 by Green air products that I have converted to bern NG

5. Ballast in the room? If so digital of magnetic?
No ballasts in room, Digi dimmables

6. Dehu? What size? How often is it running?
I used to run 2 70 pint dehueys now I am purging my room at night to evacuate Co2 which combats the humidity problem as well.

7. What size, brand, and seer rating of your a/c?
Kwikool 5ton Aircooled unit, not sure of the seer rating but this unit is badass!

8. How often does it cycle (turn on and off)?
Every so often through out light off (no insulation is why)
Stays running when room is max powered up.

9. What is the highest and average outdoor temps? What the climate like?
High 90's all summer long Had my indoor house thermostat read 110 at one point this summer, Thats when I stopped exhausting the hot air from the AC upstairs.

10. What is your grow room temps set at?
DAY 83* NIGHT 70*

11. Is the system able to maintain the temp setpoint through the entire light cycle?
Yes, Now that hot air is exhausting into the Garage.

 

[darlingmaster]

Size of room; 10x5x8(height)
How well insulated is it?; One wall is cinder block facing the outside. One wall is sheet rock, no insulation in the wall, reflectix on the insdie of room. Two walls are OSB with reflectix on the inside of the room. No insulation on ceiling.
Total wattage in the room; 2k, Magnum hoods, no glass/uncooled.
Burning gas for co2?; No, using co2 tanks.
Ballast in the room; No
Dehuey?; Yes. 70pt Frigidaire. Set to 60%, runs day/night as humidity rises/falls.
What size, brand, seer rating of your ac?; 14k btu Mitsubishi Mr.Slim, 21 seer.
How often does it cycle (turn on and off)?; It's an inverter model so runs at very low speed.
What is the highest and average outdoor temps? What the climate like?; Temps are 95+ all summer, sub tropic climate.
What is your grow room temps set at?; 80. I run co2.
Is the system able to maintain the temp setpoint through the entire light cycle?; Easily!

 

[ttystikk]

I wanted to comment on oversizing cooling systems, what people told you about the 3 ton using more electricity isn't exactly true. Let's say I need exactly a 2 ton cooling system. With this cooling setup my compressor never shuts off while the lights are on. Lets say I change this system out for a 4 ton and now my compressor will run 50% of the time. For the most part these 2 a/c's will use the same amount of electricity per hour....the larger one uses more power but it runs less. There is one factor here though that I need to mention. Startup amperage for a compressor is different from the running amperage of a compressor. Running amperage is usually 60% of the startup BTW. Its not a considerable difference because these startup amps are only for a brief moment. So with our example if you have a 2 ton compressor running constantly vs a 4 ton running 50% of an hour the 2 ton will use slightly less power but its negligible. A 3 ton would have ran approximately 75% of the hour which is what I recommend...this gives time for the equipment to cool off between cycles extending the life of the cooling system.

With that said there is a significant reason not to oversize an a/c and that is for dehumidification purposes. A/c's can only dehumidify while the compressor is running and although you are dehumidifying more with a larger unit since it doesn't run as much you won't get as much condensation out of it.

I know that you have already purchased and a/c so this infor won't help you but a chiller systems do not work that way. I can design a chiller system using a 5 ton when only needing a 2 ton that works perfectly. With chiller systems you are able to add water volume and store cooling energy allowing you to dehumidify without the compressor running. Also with a larger water volume can you adjust the compressor run time so that it doesn't cycle on and off to often.

I read on the watercooledgardens.com website that having my chiller run continuously was the most efficient way to do it, and that having it cycle on and off a lot was actually detrimental to the unit's longevity. I'm a little lost here...

Also, I'm cooling a sealed room with 8x1k HPS with a 2 ton chiller. I know we've talked about it and I did say my ballasts are elsewhere and I'm cooling my hoods with outside air, but I know I'm very close to the capacity of the system. If the chiller needs to shut off regularly, I'm up shit creek, right? Or am I?

 

[deacon1503]

1. Size of room? 18x12x8

2. How well insulated is it? 2x4 w/ r-13 on walls, concrete floor, drywall and open joists for ceiling

3. Total wattage in the room(s)? 10k (11k on boost)

4. Burning gas for Co2? yes (greenair with heat sink tube w/ fan)

5. Ballast in the room? If so digital of magnetic? no, digi's outside

6. Dehu? What size? How often is it running? yes, 65 pint (night only till week 7 then 24/7). night time 1 hour purge entire grow.

7. What size, brand, and seer rating of your a/c? ramsond 24k mini, 14 seer & amana 24k window, 10 seer

8. How often does it cycle (turn on and off)? depends on set temp

9. What is the highest and average outdoor temps? What the climate like? 90-100 with equal humidity, 4 distinct seasons

10. What is your grow room temps set at? veg: 82 bud: 78 till week 7 then down to 72

11. Is the system able to maintain the temp setpoint through the entire light cycle? yes

 

[Chillville]

I read on the watercooledgardens.com website that having my chiller run continuously was the most efficient way to do it, and that having it cycle on and off a lot was actually detrimental to the unit's longevity. I'm a little lost here...

Also, I'm cooling a sealed room with 8x1k HPS with a 2 ton chiller. I know we've talked about it and I did say my ballasts are elsewhere and I'm cooling my hoods with outside air, but I know I'm very close to the capacity of the system. If the chiller needs to shut off regularly, I'm up shit creek, right? Or am I?

I think they are talking about the pump cycling on and off to often can prematurely wear them out. The chiller should be left on (the switch on) 24 hrs a day with the pump running if you need 24 hr cooling, obviously. I prefer to leave my systems running 24hrs a day because I don't to worry about whether the pump and chiller come on and off together. You can do this if you have them setup on the same timer though. Its perfectly ok to shut your chiller and pump off during the lights off cycle if you want. I would recommend a pool pump timer, intermatic brand.

If your system overwhelms the chiller and it run constantly you should be ok. Its not preferable for sure, it will wear out the equipment sooner.

 

[Chillville]

Thanks alot everyone for posting their setups, this will help many people decide on what they should do in the future.

Good kharma to you guys :)

 

[water wise guy]

I read on the watercooledgardens.com website that having my chiller run continuously was the most efficient way to do it, and that having it cycle on and off a lot was actually detrimental to the unit's longevity. I'm a little lost here...

this not true the most efficient way for a chiller to work is to be off for atleast 20% per hour. i.e. during a hour of your on cycle the chiller should have the water cold enough for it to turn off for a minimum of 12 minutes per hour. if your run the chiller non-stop the compressor never gets a chance to cool off which makes it run less efficient using more power for less cooling and it will also shorten the life of the chiller.

i think you miss understood what they were saying. they mean not to have the chiller on a timer and have it plugged in and turned on all the time. this is more efficient than the chiller having to chill the water down from heat agthered while unit was off.